Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[BKS]

Seaslug, sorry pal I'm agreeing with you. But, understanding wetlands ARE effected by tides, I thought proving on that morning at 3am it was low tide would further prove the point that the area was not under water. I know tides do not "rush in", it is gradual increase in water level over a period of several hours. My home actually sits right on the edge of a wetland area, just a few steps out my back door. These wetlands also receive water from area streets so it also affected by rain and storm surge. During a normal year (without hurricanes) the weather and tides effect the water level, which fluctuates from near nothing to maybe 2 feet.

 

[dcgrumpy]

I'm no expert on this at all but I would imagine they can determine if animals had done damage to the skeletal structure, right?

Yes

 

[mrspatton]

This tide chart

http://tides.mobilegeographics.com/locations/1548.html?y=2010&m=5&d=1

shows the tides as being over 3 feet at high tide the evening of May 1 2010

Democrat Point, Fire Island Inlet, Long Island, New York
40.6333° N, 73.2933° W

2010-05-01 4:18 AM EDT -0.14 feet Low Tide
2010-05-01 5:52 AM EDT Sunrise
2010-05-01 10:06 AM EDT 2.61 feet High Tide
2010-05-01 4:20 PM EDT 0.18 feet Low Tide
2010-05-01 7:49 PM EDT Sunset
2010-05-01 10:22 PM EDT 3.08 feet High Tide

 

[mrspatton]

Even if the area was at low tide when she went into the marsh, it would seem reasonable that a high tide that evening of over three feet would create substantial puddles and muck, at least to me.

 

[mrspatton]

heres a bit more of the chart to show that the tides are routinely above 1 foot at high tide in this area....

2010-05-02 5:02 AM EDT 0.02 feet Low Tide
2010-05-02 5:50 AM EDT Sunrise
2010-05-02 10:57 AM EDT 2.48 feet High Tide
2010-05-02 5:03 PM EDT 0.36 feet Low Tide
2010-05-02 7:50 PM EDT Sunset
2010-05-02 11:12 PM EDT 2.89 feet High Tide
2010-05-03 5:47 AM EDT 0.20 feet Low Tide
2010-05-03 5:49 AM EDT Sunrise
2010-05-03 11:49 AM EDT 2.37 feet High Tide
2010-05-03 5:48 PM EDT 0.54 feet Low Tide
2010-05-03 7:51 PM EDT Sunset
2010-05-04 12:02 AM EDT 2.72 feet High Tide
2010-05-04 5:48 AM EDT Sunrise
2010-05-04 6:34 AM EDT 0.36 feet Low Tide
2010-05-04 12:41 PM EDT 2.30 feet High Tide
2010-05-04 6:39 PM EDT 0.69 feet Low Tide
2010-05-04 7:52 PM EDT Sunset
2010-05-05 12:52 AM EDT 2.59 feet High Tide

 

[mrspatton]

If you go to the link I provided you can look at a whole year of tides for the area for 2010. Also sunrise/sunset. Sunrise the morning Shannon went missing looks to be 6:27 am I believe.

 

[BKS]

Sunrise 5:50am and low tide

 

[En Passant]

I am putting an end to this nonsense that tides and currents were a factor.

For starters, this is a LANDLOCKED freshwater wetland. There is not any sort of inlet where water from the bay can rush in or out!! The water in this area is GROUND WATER that drains from the streets (there are not sewers in Oak Beach). The claim that the high tide "rushes" is simply false.

However, even if you want to argue that the water in the wetlands rise and fall with the water table as the tides come in and out, (which I am not saying is not possible) it is still IMPOSSIBLE that the depth of the water fluctates more than a foot (unless there is a hurricane or storm surge).

How do I know this?

Very simple. Take a look at this tide chart for the Great South Bay at Oak Beach. This is with a FULL MOON during this first week in May when tides fluctuate the most out of almost any other time in the year. If you read the explanation above the chart you can see how it explains that during high tide the water rises a whopping ONE FOOT!!!!

Truthspider and others who have frequented this area can confirm that the water usually sits in those mosquito ditches will be over two feet from the top of the banks of the ditches. So even if 12" of water seeps into this area from under the sand and muck during high tides, it still would not be enough water to fill and overflow the top of the ditches.

The claim that the entire area has been under two feet or more of water is simply false!!!

And the further North in the wetlands towards Ocean Parkway you travel, the higher the elevation. So a claim that SG's remains were under 2 feet of water among all those hardwood trees in the highlands portion of the wetlands would mean that the water within these wetlands defy the laws of physics.

I agree that MrsPatton is on target, I believe it is a salt water marsh, even in the picture SG body was close to water which meant if low tide she was placed there. I do not see the trees.

I also agree you have no personal knowledge of the area, since from boston & MrsPatton does .... I would tend to think she knows whats going on there, no offense but Boston is a ways away. I have no feed back as I have no knowledge of the area besides MrsPatton government document.....since I live closer to boston myself, usually we head to cape Cod around this area....NY people flock to LI, Boston people flock to the Cape Cod, marthas vinyard, nantucket & BI as our area offers many prestine beaches as well as Maine. LI a a world away. Great point MrsPatton. Even if one was a resident a while back they still are not expert as demographics change & terrian over the years that is influenced by weather ....some summers rain all summer & some may not etc. TY for the proper knowledge MrsPatton

I wouldn't dare even put my 2 cents in...I go to the cape alot & live by the ocean & unless you are from that specific area you still would not know they lay of the land IMO

 

[mrspatton]

Sunrise 5:50am and low tide

You are right, my bad, I looked at March. 5:50 am for May. It was low tide, but the marsh wouldn't drain all the water off then, it would effect levels, but because of uneven sediment deposits/terrain, there would be puddles/ponds, etc. Ditches were dug and the marsh was drained to aid in the investigation of Shannon Gilbert because of this...so I think seeing over the year that the high tides daily average 2-3 feet may give a better idea of the possibility of there being standing water in some areas pretty consistently in the marsh.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

The morning of May 1 - the sky would have a very bright
light
from a very bright full moon that was about 95% FULL.

The Moon had just been FULL 2 nights earlier on April 28, 2010.

So - although it is very dark at night out at Oak Beach, if the skies were NOT cloudy - and if the skies were CLEAR
that FULL FULL FULL moon would have illuminated the path for Shannan.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Can you tell me why the government information I sent you says this is a saltwater marsh? I'm just curious why you think everyone is wrong but you? Obviously everyone is lying then?

Are you an oak beach resident...just curious as I see you are in boston...was wondering about your relationship to the area and if you have walked the area yourself?

IIRC Seaslug is originally from LI and used to spend summers at Oak Beach. I'm pretty sure he was still living on LI when he started posting here.

 

[BKS]

The morning of May 1 - the sky would have a very bright
light
from a very bright full moon that was about 95% FULL.

The Moon had just been FULL 2 nights earlier on April 28, 2010.

So - although it is very dark at night out at Oak Beach, if the skies were NOT cloudy - and if the skies were CLEAR
that FULL FULL FULL moon would have illuminated the path for Shannan.

I still find it unbelievable with so many people knowing that she was out there that night running for her life, under a bright full moon at low tide, she just vanished? Did the LE even look for her in the direction she was running? No. Instead they searched 6 miles away in the opposite direction. This just doesn't make sense. Who was the responding officer that night?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

I still find it unbelievable with so many people knowing that she was out there that night running for her life, under a bright full moon at low tide, she just vanished? Did the LE even look for her in the direction she was running? No. Instead they searched 6 miles away in the opposite direction. This just doesn't make sense. Who was the responding officer that night?

WHY ??????

WHY did they search 4-5-6 miles AWAY from where she was LAST seen ???

IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE
also
that marsh is INPENETRABLE. You can't even get your HAND thru that thicket - LET ALONE a body. The people who say she was running in there HAVE NOT BEEN THERE IN PERSON TO SEE.....how UNREAL this scenario is.

TKM

 

[fieldnotes]

The marsh is impenetrable from Ocean Parkway, not from Anchor Way.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

The marsh is impenetrable from Ocean Parkway, not from Anchor Way.

the coppers have never said she ENTERED that Marsh from Ocean Parkway..... they keep alluding that she entered that Marsh from ... (i guess) the Anchor's Way...site.....and was allegedly running TOWARDS a street light....
when ummmmmm behind her... were HOUSES to hide behind
and CARS and SUV's to hide behind
and TREES to hide behind
and HELP......
right at her finger tips.

AND she was on the phone with 911.....until the phone was either SNATCHED out of her hands or .....what?

:twocents::twocents:

 

[BKS]

When they knew she was a missing person a few days later, where was the k-9 unit then???? Who made the decision NOT to investigate is what I want to know!

 

[fieldnotes]

Yes, she ostensibly entered from inside the community where it is PENETRABLE. When I went to see the sight where her body was found I was surprised that it didn't resemble an archeological dig. There were small crime scene flags around but the ground didn't appear to be dug up and sifted. Especially now knowing several bones were missing, including possibly her hyoid bone, this layman would think that would have been the procedure. I dunno.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Yes, she ostensibly entered from inside the community where it is PENETRABLE. When I went to see the sight where her body was found I was surprised that it didn't resemble an archeological dig. There were small crime scene flags around but the ground didn't appear to be dug up and sifted. Especially now knowing several bones were missing, including possibly her hyoid bone, this layman would think that would have been the procedure. I dunno.

So Mr. Fieldnotes....

was she ON TOP of the GROUND?

or IN the GROUND?

thank u.

 

[fieldnotes]

Im worn out already. Goin back to bed.

 

[MrsPC]

IMO, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans whether the "marsh" is saltwater or fresh water or whether it's a bloomin' lake...lol

Because....per Mari's attorney - the Medical Examiner found no evidence of drowning.

I think we can all agree however that it was a very brushy area and would have been difficult for anyone on foot to maneuver - especially the distance from Shannan's clothes/possessions to where her remains were found and doubly difficult to do barefoot & pantless.

And I'm assuming since Mari's attorney is saying the cause of death is inconclusive that the ME also didn't find evidence of hypothermia.