Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

[LongIsland731]

In my opinion a lot of people are stuck in 2011 still buying into Ray's unproven claims. The second autopsy lean towards but never concluded that she was strangled. In my opinion, at this point, even if Ray was convinced it was an accident he would never admit it. He has too much invested into Shannon being a victim of murder. If he were to come out and say it was the cops are right then thr family no longer needs his representation. The media no longer need to interview him or give him attention.

Also, many are thinking about this as if it was them or if this happened at a backyard summer BBQ. Of course if it was you or I we would call the police or try to get shannon medical attention. Because I would hope for the most part we are law abiding citizens and have nothing to hide. We are also not in that life.

This is not the case for pak, brewer , and shannon. Brewer was breaking the law and lived in a private tight community. At most he tried to push shannon for extra favors after he figured she was vulnerable enough. Ask any sex worker they get tested and pushed by clients daily. Having the cops there would be an embarrassment and make him the talk of the town. Shannon gave details, and was not concise at all In her call.

Pak =convicted felon, illegal gun, still committing crimes that night.

People have shot at and ran from the cops for a speeding ticket warrants. Pak could have gotten years if caught as a felon with an illegal, likely stolen gun

Eveyone from the city knows you don't mess with the cops out on the island. You don't get caught in the suburbs. What could get you a court summons in NYC can get you sent upstate to prison in suffolk. The DA and cops here got time and aren't as overwhelmed as the city.

 

[LongIsland731]

In my opinion, If ruis wanted SG killed it would have happened in the city. Where they got shooters, network of gangs, and an overloaded DA/police.

These people are street criminals not the CIA or MI6. How does coming up with this weird plan to kill her, involving even more people, in a small town 50 miles away make an sense?

And if that was the plot they really did a terrible job. Letting SG stay on the phone with 23 minutes. Leaving the door open while they were talking in the background and she just ran out. I'm not an expert on getting rid of witnesses but that's like a bungled, terrible job. Hung out for 3 hours then tried to.make a move on her? Do these "professionals" not know what element of surprise is? If he drove her out there to be killed why was pak still there? Was he to drive her body back to Manhattan? Or did he want to be seen for 3 hours outside of a murder location?

 

[Betty P]

In my opinion a lot of people are stuck in 2011 still buying into Ray's unproven claims. The second autopsy lean towards but never concluded that she was strangled. In my opinion, at this point, even if Ray was convinced it was an accident he would never admit it. He has too much invested into Shannon being a victim of murder. If he were to come out and say it was the cops are right then thr family no longer needs his representation. The media no longer need to interview him or give him attention.

Also, many are thinking about this as if it was them or if this happened at a backyard summer BBQ. Of course if it was you or I we would call the police or try to get shannon medical attention. Because I would hope for the most part we are law abiding citizens and have nothing to hide. We are also not in that life.

This is not the case for pak, brewer , and shannon. Brewer was breaking the law and lived in a private tight community. At most he tried to push shannon for extra favors after he figured she was vulnerable enough. Ask any sex worker they get tested and pushed by clients daily. Having the cops there would be an embarrassment and make him the talk of the town. Shannon gave details, and was not concise at all In her call.

Pak =convicted felon, illegal gun, still committing crimes that night.

People have shot at and ran from the cops for a speeding ticket warrants. Pak could have gotten years if caught as a felon with an illegal, likely stolen gun

Eveyone from the city knows you don't mess with the cops out on the island. You don't get caught in the suburbs. What could get you a court summons in NYC can get you sent upstate to prison in suffolk. The DA and cops here got time and aren't as overwhelmed as the city.

A friend of mine, a member here, who is retired LE said that any time a murder investigation is compromised - someone in L or witnesses have lied, evidence withheld, evidence expert gave flawed or false results, etc. - you have to completely re-do the investigation from scratch. Throw out the old official explanation, go through the files, evidence, witnesses and do it all over again. Just as they did with the Gilgo Beach 4 killers. All of the witnesses need to be re-interviewed and investigated. New witnesses should be developed and included.

The same thing needs to be done for Shannan's murder. JMO, it's fruitless to speculate about evidence, witness statements, etc. that may be incorrect or refuted by new evidence.

ETA: John Ray isn't the one promoting the theory that some drug dealer arranged to have Shannan murdered. Those two discussions shouldn't be conflated.

 

[kittythehare]

In my opinion a lot of people are stuck in 2011 still buying into Ray's unproven claims. The second autopsy lean towards but never concluded that she was strangled. In my opinion, at this point, even if Ray was convinced it was an accident he would never admit it. He has too much invested into Shannon being a victim of murder. If he were to come out and say it was the cops are right then thr family no longer needs his representation. The media no longer need to interview him or give him attention.

Also, many are thinking about this as if it was them or if this happened at a backyard summer BBQ. Of course if it was you or I we would call the police or try to get shannon medical attention. Because I would hope for the most part we are law abiding citizens and have nothing to hide. We are also not in that life.

This is not the case for pak, brewer , and shannon. Brewer was breaking the law and lived in a private tight community. At most he tried to push shannon for extra favors after he figured she was vulnerable enough. Ask any sex worker they get tested and pushed by clients daily. Having the cops there would be an embarrassment and make him the talk of the town. Shannon gave details, and was not concise at all In her call.

Pak =convicted felon, illegal gun, still committing crimes that night.

People have shot at and ran from the cops for a speeding ticket warrants. Pak could have gotten years if caught as a felon with an illegal, likely stolen gun

Eveyone from the city knows you don't mess with the cops out on the island. You don't get caught in the suburbs. What could get you a court summons in NYC can get you sent upstate to prison in suffolk. The DA and cops here got time and aren't as overwhelmed as the city.

Time for what, exactly
?
This?

The Strange Rise and Violent Fall of Long Island's Dirtiest Police Chief

Former Suffolk County Chief James Burke's recent conviction on civil rights charges opened a window into a lurid cop culture of illegal wiretapping, cover-ups, sex addiction, drunk driving, and blackmail.

www.vice.com

 

[ArianeEmory]

I didn’t know until today about Shannan’s bipolar diagnosis, or what happened with her mother and sister. I’m still leaning towards bad reaction to drugs (regarding the paranoid 911 call), but it seems she might have been more vulnerable than some to that bad reaction. JMO.

(Shoutout to the Criminology podcast, I believe the host is a verified member here, and their recent episode (along with a podcast that just seems to be called “LISK: Long Island Serial Killer”) helped me unpack the 911 call and Shannan’s background. FWIW, none of these folks, or the people they interview, seem terribly convinced Shannan was a victim of RH. The second podcast I mention, though, does point out repeatedly that Shannan’s case was instrumental in uncovering the other bodies.)

 

[LongIsland731]

I also don't beleive The theory that pak made the appointment with brewer. Go on your local sex worker listings and call them all. Why would a man answered the phone? It's bad for business to have a man answering the calls of horny men looking for sex. I would hang up right away and call someone else. The girls with security might mention a driver or boy friend on the phone so the client knows ahead of time not to mess around.
Brewer knew she had a driver outside.

 

[kittythehare]

This is an excellent read.

Two Lost Daughters

Mari Gilbert’s life, transformed by the death of one daughter, was ended by another.

www.thecut.com

 

[ArianeEmory]

This is an excellent read.

Two Lost Daughters

Mari Gilbert’s life, transformed by the death of one daughter, was ended by another.

www.thecut.com

(Trigger warning for people, animal cruelty.)

Thanks, I had no idea. This family could not catch a break.

 

[Kitsey]

I just listened to the call in its entirety and I have to say that it lines up exactly with MP’s account. If she was murdered, by anyone who was aware of her 911 calls, why would the killer leave her body in the vicinity?

 

[fred&edna]

If they wanted to take her out for the they would have in the city. Where they could have paid any bum gangster 10k and he would have shot her dead for no reason. It happens in the city everyday.

They wouldn't set up this elaborate story with a fake John in a 250 person community 50 miles away on long island. Driving past dozens of street cameras. Then hang out with the fake John for 3 hours and allow her to call 911 for 23 minutes. Think about it. These are street criminals we are talking about here not the CIA.

Do you know who Joseph Ruis' associates were?? When you can tell me that... maybe I'll be convinced. He didn't get big $$, those hookers, and cocaine all by his little lonesome (imo). And, he surely didn't make all his connections by running a "kebab house", lol!

It's entirely possible Ruis' best associates lived on LI... who knows?

 

[fred&edna]

Ok but the main theory appears to be that the supposed pimp is behind this because she was going to testify against him. So, that would have to mean they all knew each other and were all involved. If you believe she was in an intoxicated state (many do) then it wouldn't be a stretch to see how/where she got that idea in her head and freaked, which would explain some of the things she said and did.

I sincerely doubt Joseph Ruis was a one-man show. And, he was not just some "supposed pimp"... read some of the news links in these threads about his operation IF you want to know more, <modsnip>

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The second-oldest sister currently oversees a Facebook page called Praying for Shannan Maria Gilbert, which is dedicated to trying to solve Shannan's murder.

Shannan Gilbert's Sister Sheree Currently Runs A Facebook Page To Honor Her Memory

Lately, she's posted about Netflix's 'Lost Girls' and updates on the unsolved case.

www.womenshealthmag.com

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www.facebook.com

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I sincerely doubt Joseph Ruis was a one-man show. And, he was not just some "supposed pimp"... read some of the news links in these threads about his operation IF you want to know more, <modsnip>

I never indicated he was a one-man show nor can I figure out/remember when names and accusations are allowed. <modsnip>

 

[Betty P]

I didn’t know until today about Shannan’s bipolar diagnosis, or what happened with her mother and sister. I’m still leaning towards bad reaction to drugs (regarding the paranoid 911 call), but it seems she might have been more vulnerable than some to that bad reaction. JMO.

(Shoutout to the Criminology podcast, I believe the host is a verified member here, and their recent episode (along with a podcast that just seems to be called “LISK: Long Island Serial Killer”) helped me unpack the 911 call and Shannan’s background. FWIW, none of these folks, or the people they interview, seem terribly convinced Shannan was a victim of RH. The second podcast I mention, though, does point out repeatedly that Shannan’s case was instrumental in uncovering the other bodies.)

Did they happen to mention why Suffolk County PD refused to release the tape of the 911 call to Shannans family for 6 years. Why her family had to protest, hire an attorney and go to the news media to get SCPD to take any action to investigate Shannans disappearance? Do you know they never notified Shannans family for months after she went missing? Her family had no idea where to search for her. Their contact information was on Shannans phone, which was in the possession of SCPD.

Any ideas about why her clothing was found in the back yard of the eccentric doctor in Oak Beach who called Shannans motherbthe day after she went missing to say Shannan had been at his house that night and he gave her drugs?

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Did they happen to mention why Suffolk County PD refused to release the tape of the 911 call to Shannans family for 6 years. Why her family had to protest, hire an attorney and go to the news media to get SCPD to take any action to investigate Shannans disappearance? Do you know they never notified Shannans family for months after she went missing? Her family had no idea where to search for her. Their contact information was on Shannans phone, which was in the possession of SCPD.

Any ideas about why her clothing was found in the back yard of the eccentric doctor in Oak Beach who called Shannans motherbthe day after she went missing to say Shannan had been at his house that night and he gave her drugs?

I'm under the impression that they debunked the Dr. and he basically said he made it all up. Do I have that wrong.?

 

[Betty P]

I just listened to the call in its entirety and I have to say that it lines up exactly with MP’s account. If she was murdered, by anyone who was aware of her 911 calls, why would the killer leave her body in the vicinity?

My theory is that the person who killed her knew SCPD wouldn’t fully investigate her disappearance and would write it off to crazy sea worker, etc, etc. Some of the people who lived in Oak Beach were friends of the chief of police, who was later convicted of corruption and sent to jail.

 

[Betty P]

I'm under the impression that they debunked the Dr. and he basically said he made it all up. Do I have that wrong.?

people who are guilty of crimes often say the same thing. They did play portions of the 911 call for Shannans mother. They refused to release it to the public.

They have offered no evidence to exonerate the doctor, except his wife’s alibi. Why would he do such a bizarre thing when very few people knew Shannan was missing? Her own mother didnt even know where she was.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

My theory is that the person who killed her knew SCPD wouldn’t fully investigate her disappearance and would write it off to crazy sea worker, etc, etc. Some of the people who lived in Oak Beach were friends of the chief of police, who was later convicted of corruption and sent to jail.

Is every man on Oak Beach single? I find it hard to believe this would go on and the wives go along with it when they could get rid of their disgusting husband, and take everything as he goes to prison.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

people who are guilty of crimes often say the same thing. They did play portions of the 911 call for Shannans mother. They refused to release it to the public.

They have offered no evidence to exonerate the doctor, except his wife’s alibi. Why would he do such a bizarre thing when very few people knew Shannan was missing? Her own mother didnt even know where she was.

Because he's a weirdo goofball who wanted attention. People like to insert themselves. I seem to recall it was said he had no interaction or involvement. I could be wrong though. It's been a long time since I've followed this case.

 

[Betty P]

Because he's a weirdo goofball who wanted attention. People like to insert themselves. I seem to recall it was said he had no interaction or involvement. I could be wrong though. It's been a long time since I've followed this case.

Since the police tried to cover up and dismiss those actions before investigating them and were later jailed for corruption, I don’t believe them. His actions were and have been very suspicious. I assume the new team in Suffolk County are investigating all of this again.