Size 12/14 Bloomies

[LinasK]

Bumping this thread for the benefit of the newbies...

 

[K. Taylor]

We were discussing this in another thread, but according to John, JonBenet couldn't read. Does that affect the theory of whether she chose the underwear? If she couldn't read, how could she tell they were the right day? Are the patterns on each day different?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

The underwear that JonBenet was found in was exactly the same in appearance to the pair missing. Take a good look at the pictures of the size 4/6 and the size 12/14. There is absolutely no way JonBenet herself would have chosen to dress in such overlarge and ill-fitting underwear. It would have been extremely uncomfortable, with the crotch hanging down to her knees and the waistband slipping off her hips.

Patsy said she undressed JonBenet that night when she was carried in and put in bed - removing the velvet pants she had been wearing and replacing them with long johns. Certainly these size 12/14s, had they already been in JB, would have come off when Patsy pulled off the velvet pants. They're so huge there would be nothing holding them on her. You would certainly think Patsy would have noticed that they were way too large and dressed her in the right size underwear - and since Patsy doesn't say that happened, I have to assume the person who wiped down and redressed JonBenet was the person who picked the size 12/14 undies. Why? All I can figure is that the redresser needed the underwear to look exactly the same.

And these size 12/14 underwear were located in a drawer in JonBenet's bathroom, still in the package. How likely is it that some intruder, after sexually assaulting a child, went up into her bedroom and into her bathroom and looked around until he found underwear that were a visual match (except for size) and dressed her in them, seemingly unconcerned about being heard and caught roaming around in the house of the child he just attacked?

 

[PagingDrDetect]

I actually think that the reason for the mombo sized panties isn't so much the day of the week written on them but the fact that they were pristine... fresh out of a sealed plastic package with no Ramsey DNA on them.

 

[Eagle1]

........... How likely is it that some intruder, after sexually assaulting a child, went up into her bedroom and into her bathroom and looked around until he found underwear that were a visual match (except for size) and dressed her in them, seemingly unconcerned about being heard and caught roaming around in the house of the child he just attacked?

How likely was it that rope fibers would be found in the victim's bed?

 

[Camper]

"125
Today, 12:16 PM
Eagle1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit 'Burb
Posts: 2,204


Rope Fibers in Her Bed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter
........... How likely is it that some intruder, after sexually assaulting a child, went up into her bedroom and into her bathroom and looked around until he found
underwear that were a visual match (except for size) and dressed her in them, seemingly unconcerned about being heard and caught roaming around in the house of the child he just attacked? [/quote]


How likely was it that rope fibers would be found in the victim's bed?
__________________
JMHO, of the MOMENT.


==========>>>Really, IF IF IF a stun gun as Lou Smit would like us to believe was used, the to remove JonBenet from the bedroom, fine.

THEN our 'intruder killer' takes her to the basement and KILLS HER, then comes BACK up to the bedroom to MAKE the device, aaaaaaaaaa nope.

ER ER 'our killer' intruder makes the device with her still sleeping in the bed. THEN does Lou Smit think that our 'intruder picks up the device, stuns guns her and carries her to the basement, and gets some pineapple for her on the way down to soothe her WHEN she recovers from the stun gun, she will then eat some of the pineapple, aaaaaaaaaa nope.

ER ER IF IF our 'intruder killer' comes in to the house when the R's are at the W's party, WHY would he sit (er did he) on the bed making the device. IF IF he left fibres from the rope WHY didn't he leave traces of him being in the bedroom on or near the bed?

WE indeed have an odd set of circumstances for a potential intruder.

.

 

[LinasK]

I actually think that the reason for the mombo sized panties isn't so much the day of the week written on them but the fact that they were pristine... fresh out of a sealed plastic package with no Ramsey DNA on them.

Yeah, but all the ones in the package were new, the Wednesday ones were chosen because Christmas Day 1996 fell on a Wednesday...

 

[UKGuy]

I actually think that the reason for the mombo sized panties isn't so much the day of the week written on them but the fact that they were pristine... fresh out of a sealed plastic package with no Ramsey DNA on them.

PagingDrDetect,

Yes that is a likely reason since it is consistent with other aspects of her death.

This and the Wednesday feature suggests just how meticulous someone was wrt to forensic evidence?


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[Eagle1]

Rope Fibers in Her Bed ...........................
IF IF he left fibres from the rope WHY didn't he leave traces of him being in the bedroom on or near the bed?................................
WE indeed have an odd set of circumstances for a potential intruder.

I know. I can't picture the scenario either. No idea why there would be rope fibers in (or on?) the bed. If they'd been playing this "game" previously, maybe just showing her the rope was supposed to make her want to go downstairs? "Nope" I don't think so. But they say pedophiles typically think the child is in love with them. Big heads.

Yup, I doubt pineapple would sooth the child if she'd been stun-gunned, or that she would even eat it, no matter how much she liked it. I just don't know exactly how all this came down. Karr may have been describing the typical scenario, y'know. Would any of the R's be familiar with it? Dunno. Depends what they and all those "friends" had in common in the first place, who rather promptly distanced themselves in time of trouble. (I know, they were being thrown under the bus, but maybe knew something they could have revealed to defend themselves, eh?)

 

[Camper]

Geeze!

Since the panties were found on JonBenets body, they would of course had her DNA on them. My best thought on the big panties continues to be that JonBenet had altercation prior to W party with her mom on WHAT to wear, and that she knew where the panties were and got them herself.

BUT could she have read the word 'Wednesday' on them and selected them herself to be the appropriate ones for that Christmas Day.

Since PR put the panties in the bathroom drawer after purchase, her prints would of course already have been on the package, in more innocent times. Fingerprints do NOT come with a date stamp, unfortunately.

As I recall the panties were put away for JonBenet and the day that she would be a BIG GIRL.

The question is who would know that she had become a BIG GIRL on Christmas night?

.
.

 

[PagingDrDetect]

Originally Posted by Camper
Geeze!

Since the panties were found on JonBenets body, they would of course had her DNA on them. My best thought on the big panties continues to be that JonBenet had altercation prior to W party with her mom on WHAT to wear, and that she knew where the panties were and got them herself.
BUT could she have read the word 'Wednesday' on them and selected them herself to be the appropriate ones for that Christmas Day.

Since PR put the panties in the bathroom drawer after purchase, her prints would of course already have been on the package, in more innocent times. Fingerprints do NOT come with a date stamp, unfortunately.

As I recall the panties were put away for JonBenet and the day that she would be a BIG GIRL.

The question is who would know that she had become a BIG GIRL on Christmas night?

Yes, of course JBR's DNA would be on the panties, that's obvious. However, I believe the decision to use the size 12 panties was because they were the only ones in a sealed plastic container that had no Ramsey DNA on them... the size 12 panties were chosen because there would be no Ramsey DNA on them OTHER THAN JBR's own. Once the decision to use the size 12 panties was made, obviously the Wednesday pair would have been chosen so that later it could be claimed that they were brought by an intruder THAT night. Later, once it was found that others knew that particular package was in JBR's panty draw, PR HAD to say she put them there, JBR chose to wear them herself and put them on herself. In fact, that's exactly what PR claimed.

The missing other six panties in the package is also telling... whose fingerprints or DNA would be found on the INSIDE of the package? PR or JR must have taken the rest of them and hidden them away initially assuming that it would be found that an intruder brought the pair JBR was found wearing. But the housekeeper saying she knew that package of panties was in JBR's panty drawer later ruined that plan. Therefore, PR HAD to say when finally interviewed about them that she bought them, she put them in JBR's panty drawer, and knew they existed. But, they realized later that the other size 12 panties being missing pointed to them after all, so a new package of size 12's were purchased and given to their own investigators to finally turn in as though they had just been discovered amongst the Ramsey's household items after they moved. The panties were turned in years later as though just discovered, but that doesn't explain why the package of the other six pairs wasn't in the panty drawer as PR HAD to testify to later. No wonder her testimony about the mombo sized panties is all over the map... she has no good explanation for anything about them.

It's my opinion and observation that the Ramsey's have never stopped staging this crime.

 

[angelwngs]

In the list of items taken from the house it was listed that "7 pairs of children's size panties were removed by LE". Were these additional to or including the pair of size 12's found on JBR's body? What size were these panties and if they were not size 12's why did they take 7 pairs? Were those 7 pairs the total contents found in JBR's underware drawer?

 

[LinasK]

Geeze!

Since the panties were found on JonBenets body, they would of course had her DNA on them. My best thought on the big panties continues to be that JonBenet had altercation prior to W party with her mom on WHAT to wear, and that she knew where the panties were and got them herself.

BUT could she have read the word 'Wednesday' on them and selected them herself to be the appropriate ones for that Christmas Day.

Camper, I was under the impression that JonBenet could not yet read her own name, let alone the days of the week...

 

[Camper]

I would like to see a package of those panties WRAPPED, to see how easy it would have been to open the package.

A picture of the opened package could be revealing to determine HOW they were opened. Would a Swiss knife have been needed to open the sometimes impossible packaging that baffles me everyday.

Do the 'Bloomie' panties have a 'tear' strip or what?

.

 

[PagingDrDetect]

I would like to see a package of those panties WRAPPED, to see how easy it would have been to open the package.

A picture of the opened package could be revealing to determine HOW they were opened. Would a Swiss knife have been needed to open the sometimes impossible packaging that baffles me everyday.

Do the 'Bloomie' panties have a 'tear' strip or what?

Jayelles at Forums for Justice did a marvelous experiment with the size 12 Bloomies. The first link is the package, how it's secured, etc., comparison of the size 12/14 and size 4/6 side by side, and so on. The second link is when she made a model the same dementions as JBR and showed the model wearing the Bloomies. She did a really incredible and eye-opening job on this.

Check out both threads...
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7107

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7128

 

[LaMer]

Jayelles at Forums for Justice did a marvelous experiment with the size 12 Bloomies. The first link is the package, how it's secured, etc., comparison of the size 12/14 and size 4/6 side by side, and so on. The second link is when she made a model the same dementions as JBR and showed the model wearing the Bloomies. She did a really incredible and eye-opening job on this.

Check out both threads...
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7107

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7128

PDD, I agree, they are absolutely the theads to read. Great sleuthing going on over yonder! Jayelles is to be commended! Top Notch detective work! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Camper]

Imop, JonBenet would have to have had a tool, scissors or knife to open the packaging, unless the package had been opened previously to see the panties, then carefully packed back for the day when she would have been old enough to wear them.

So the question is still up for discussion about WHO removed the pair from the package, that she was wearing.

.

 

[LaMer]

Imop, JonBenet would have to have had a tool, scissors or knife to open the packaging, unless the package had been opened previously to see the panties, then carefully packed back for the day when she would have been old enough to wear them.

So the question is still up for discussion about WHO removed the pair from the package, that she was wearing.

.

Who? Big question! Also when and by who and how?

Speculation follow...>>>>>>

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27340&page=1&highlight=penknife

 

[PagingDrDetect]

Originally Posted by Camper
So the question is still up for discussion about WHO removed the pair from the package, that she was wearing.

I think an even better question is why did the package with the rest of the panties disappear only to be turned in years later by Ramsey investigators who supposedly found them in their Atlanta house and turned over to BDA.

Patsy was all over the place about the huge panties in her interviews... none of it made a bit of sense. She said they were in JBR's panty drawer, the housekeeper confirmed she had seen the package in that drawer previously, but LE only found 15 pairs of panties all size 4/6 in JBR's panty drawer... where did the rest of the panties in that package of the size 12/14's go and why? And why did they suddenly turn up in the hands of Ramsey investigators years later?

Patsey claims in the interviews that JBR chose to wear those panties to the White's herself and Patsy let her. I'm not buying it. Clearly, no child accustomed to having the best of clothes and concerned with her appearance would chose to wear such enormous panties. And clearly, Patsy would never have allowed it. Those panties would have bunched up underneath her pants at the White's making unsightly bumps and bulges that would have been noticable. And I think it's apparant from Jayelles demonstration that they would have been very uncomfortable to have worn... JBR would most likely have been picking at herself trying to straighten out the panties under her pants (which also would have been noticable at the White's).

Patsy also claims that she didn't notice the panties when she took off JBR's pants and put on her longjohns for sleeping that night. Rubbish. If she had worn those huge panties to the White's they would have slid right off when Patsy pulled her pants off. There's no possible way that those huge panties would have gone unnoticed by Patsy. Yet, she claims JBR chose to wear them, did wear them, and Patsy noticed nothing unusual. BAH! I mean, just LOOK at them! They're so obviously outrageously HUGE.

JBR did NOT wear those panties to the White's, and was not put to bed wearing those panties. Therefore, they were part of the staging. There must have been something about the panties she DID wear that night that had to be hidden just like whatever was on her body "down there" had to be hidden/removed because it's evident that she was cleaned "down there". The real panties that needed to be hidden for some reason were removed/destroyed, and these monster sized panties were put on her to replace them.

But with 15 pairs of size 4/6 panties to choose from in her pantry drawer that would have fit her normally, why were these ridiculously large panties chosen? My guess is because they were one of 7 in the house that were pristine... the 7 that were in that sealed plastic package that were untouched by Ramsey hands and therefore had no Ramsey DNA or other incriminating evidence on them. Just another bit of staging that points to an intruder.

And that's why the rest of the panties in that package went missing... they could point to those monster sized panties and say, "See? They're obviously panties that were brought to the house by some pervert intruder who didn't know what size she wore, and they have no Ramsey physical evidence on them!" (except they didn't realize that the fibers from her genitals would transfer to the crotch of the pristine panties rendering them not so pristine after all).

That didn't work out so well seeing as they didn't realize that the housekeeper would testify that PR bought those panties in NY and put the package in JBR's panty drawer... so then Patsy had to admit they DID come from the house - she did buy them, and she did put them in JBR's panty drawer. Enter the missing package with the rest of the panties in them... Ramsey investigators suddenly said "Whoopsie! We found that package of panties after all!"

Patsy has nothing left to do but try to convince her interagators that JBR chose to wear the huge panties, put them on herself, and that was just a-ok with Patsy. At that point, what else could she say?

But... DID the Ramsey investigators actually find them? I doubt it. I think it was a whole new package with the Wednesday pair removed just as what was done on that Christmas night... except this time the Wednesday pair was removed while wearing gloves to leave no incriminating physical evidence inside the package.

 

[Camper]

PagingDrDetect.

" JBR would most likely have been picking at herself trying to straighten out the panties under her pants (which also would have been noticable at the White's)."

WEdon't know that JonBenet didn't do any tugging 'that' night.

Possibly since Patsy lost the battle of the matching shirts, she gave in to the BIG GIRL panties.

Jayelles gave excellent pics of the overage size differential, and the packaging. I have asked a number of times about the MATERIAL the panties were made of.

Remember OJ attorney, and the GLOVES? Attorney put rubber gloves on OJ then he was supposed to put on the crime scene leather glove. Quilting women, sewing women, people who know what happens when you DO that, those gloves are NOT going to go on the hands easily or EVER.

When my little girls were small the ONLY way you could purchase day of the week panties, the Material was a nylon or silky smooth blend NOT COTTON. My little girl 'J' called the material "Swanky". Fabric that is 'swanky' easily adapts to enclosed areas, with minimized flattened wrinkles.

Fact is that the entirety of 'UNKNOWN TRUTHS' of this case have yet to be revealed to us all. We all speculate with the information that WE know from the visual media, the Ramseys mouths, TV, and literature.

Someone tell me again, was the remainder of the bloomie package on the list of evidence removed from the home initially ?, it seems that it was not by way of the PagingDrDetect post here, huh, er?

.