Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[missy1974]

Karinna ~ here is a small clip for the show that shows part of SM's deposition for SA's lawsuit.

[video=youtube;QbA5rPXIFr8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbA5rPXIFr8[/video]



and here is the Civil Complaint filed against Manitowoc County, Tom Kocourek and Denis Vogel. You can somewhat piece together how they all tied together. Dvorak (a deputy) was a friend of Morris, Morris was the wife of a deputy at the time. Dvorak was the one that took and was with PB during her first statements and IIRC she is the one that said it sounded like SA (PB's attacker). SA took a plea on the charge involving Morris after he was found guilty of PB's attack, I remember it being mentioned somewhere that he may not have taken that plea but was defeated by the guilty verdict (not those exact words), it must have been one of the appeals for the 1985 case or maybe one of the civil suit documents. IMO I think he would have got some time for that incident anyway, I'm just not sure how much time.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1-Civil-Complaint.pdf


Way more documents can be found here, I hope these help
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/civilsuitdocuments/
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/miscellaneous-records/

 

[Safeguard]

Steven Avery did not serve 18 years for a crime he did not commit. He served 12 years. The other 6 years were for a crime that if it happened to a female relative of mine, I would have killed him with my bare hands.

He is one horrific *advertiser censored*.

I know we are disagreeing on this. I respect your views that you feel he may be innocent. However, there is no other evidence to show that anyone else killed Teresa. If you have some? Then please, share it so we can discuss it.

Peace & Love x

When KZ reveals the real murderer, will SA still be a lying horrific *advertiser censored*?
You lost me at, *no evidence was planted in this case*. There are about three people on the planet that won't admit to that truth. It will not be a "travesty of justice" when BD and SA are freed. It will be a very small long over due serving of justice. I only hope the real "lying Bastards", Manitowoc LE & pals, do some well deserved time behind bars.

The evidence that someone other than SA killed TH has been discussed at length in these threads, on Reddit, and all over the WWW. You don't need to plant evidence on a guilty man...

 

[Karinna]

Karinna ~ here is a small clip for the show that shows part of SM's deposition for SA's lawsuit.

[video=youtube;QbA5rPXIFr8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbA5rPXIFr8[/video]



and here is the Civil Complaint filed against Manitowoc County, Tom Kocourek and Denis Vogel. You can somewhat piece together how they all tied together. Dvorak (a deputy) was a friend of Morris, Morris was the wife of a deputy at the time. Dvorak was the one that took and was with PB during her first statements and IIRC she is the one that said it sounded like SA (PB's attacker). SA took a plea on the charge involving Morris after he was found guilty of PB's attack, I remember it being mentioned somewhere that he may not have taken that plea but was defeated by the guilty verdict (not those exact words), it must have been one of the appeals for the 1985 case or maybe one of the civil suit documents. IMO I think he would have got some time for that incident anyway, I'm just not sure how much time.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1-Civil-Complaint.pdf


Way more documents can be found here, I hope these help
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/civilsuitdocuments/
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/miscellaneous-records/

Thankyou very much missy for posting up all that information for me. Looks like i will have some studying to do, :cheers:

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

BBM, What crime was that, do you have a link please? Are you talking about the cat?

Hi Karinna,
Avery threatened his Cousin, Sandra Morris, with a gun. He was being charged for this crime when mistakenly identified as the prime suspect in the Bernstein case in 1985. Here is a timeline of his life, which is probably better than me sharing a link to a Newspaper story. You will note he does many other bad things. http://stevenaverytrial.com

He really is a dangerous man. My exhaustive research for the last 10 months points to someone that is not a nice guy.

Peace & Love x

 

[Karinna]

Hi Karinna,
Avery threatened his Cousin, Sandra Morris, with a gun. He was being charged for this crime when mistakenly identified as the prime suspect in the Bernstein case in 1985. Here is a timeline of his life, which is probably better than me sharing a link to a Newspaper story. You will note he does many other bad things. http://stevenaverytrial.com

He really is a dangerous man. My exhaustive research for the last 10 months points to someone that is not a nice guy.

Peace & Love x

Oh yeah this charge is the one you are talking about
(quote)
In January 1985, Avery ran Sandra Morris, his cousin and a deputy’s wife, off of the road with his car. He had a rifle, and tried to force Morris into his car at gunpoint, but let her go when she told him her infant daughter was with her. Avery admitted to the crime and was sentenced to six years in prison. In the documentary, Avery claims there were no bullets in the gun. He states the attack was sparked by the fact that Morris had complained to the sheriff’s department that Avery would touch himself inappropriately on his front lawn when she drove by. Avery says that allegation is false. - See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-a...accusitions-against-him/#sthash.Os5WSmnc.dpuf

Sounds like he was pretty pi**ed off and the gun wasn't loaded, so i guess there was that. But sure he screwed up and paid for that with a term in prison.
I have heard of redneck types doing stupid s**t like that, and there were plenty of rednecks around where i lived and yeah there's some pretty mean ones out there.
My son and his friends had a pistol and it was loaded pointed at them by one in Florida when we lived there, because the guy told them they were trespassing on his land. Luckily no one got shot, but the LE arrested him and don't know what happened to him after that. So it goes that way sometimes.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

I give up.

 

[dexter75]

I give up.

Why?
Look into things while you are waiting on Zellner. I'm not trying to be a jerk to you either, promise. I KNOW you are confident in what you believe, I'm ok with that. Like you need permission, I know:shame:

You have already spent 10 months studying/reading about the case, right? A bit more won't hurt will it? Maybe it will, IDK

Each incident on his rap sheet, have you looked into each of those? WHO was there? WHAT was reported and by WHOM? The circumstances surrounding these " terrible " things that happened to him?

I know back when we started getting to look at copies of actual records and reports HERE, at Websleuths..MUCH of SA's past run ins with LE..questionable.:thinking:

 

[dexter75]

Thankyou very much missy for posting up all that information for me. Looks like i will have some studying to do, :cheers:

You will:giggle:::worms:
Have fun & good luck! I love seeing folks open up their mind, learn something new, and/or educate themselves. Even if it is " just this case " You now get to see ( if you haven't already ) why many of us have been so passionate about this case:justice:

 

[Karinna]

I give up.

Now now Hoosen, don't be like that, we are all just contributing here and it's all good and you are always nice and wish you Peace & Love too,

 

[Karinna]

You will:giggle:::worms:
Have fun & good luck! I love seeing folks open up their mind, learn something new, and/or educate themselves. Even if it is " just this case " You now get to see ( if you haven't already ) why many of us have been so passionate about this case:justice:

Thanks dexter, and agree with what you say. I watched a lengthy video the other day with Steven Avery in an interview, those Manitowocians have a funny way of talking. I am used to the southern accent as hubby hails from Macon, Georgia.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Now now Hoosen, don't be like that, we are all just contributing here and it's all good and you are always nice and wish you Peace & Love too,

I know, I know. I'm sorry for being off hand.

However, looking at Avery and his past, he really is not a nice guy in my opinion. The Sandra Morris incident? He says the gun was not loaded. However, having never had a gun pointed at me, I am pretty sure I would be terrified, even filling my pants.

Sandra Morris was not to know whether the gun was loaded or not. He has a version of the story which says the reason for doing it, was that she was spreading rumours about him. The Cat, which he admits to murdering, represents a disturbing trait, which if you have a look at some of the other cases on here, you would see is common. People that harm animals, have the capability to harm humans. (I would have him thrown in prison for life after harming that Cat, hideous behaviour.)

So he robbed a store and was punished for that, but why would LE & other agencies, spend their time persecuting him? He was always likely to get himself into trouble, two other members of his family have convictions for similar disturbing behaviour. Now, that is not to say he should automatically be tarred with the same brush, but listen to Barb when she talks about him.

He is a bad man.

As for the stitch up? I will politely agree to disagree. Lenk & Colborn had nothing to gain by doing it. It makes no sense.

As always, Peace & Love. x

 

[Karinna]

I know, I know. I'm sorry for being off hand.

However, looking at Avery and his past, he really is not a nice guy in my opinion. The Sandra Morris incident? He says the gun was not loaded. However, having never had a gun pointed at me, I am pretty sure I would be terrified, even filling my pants.

Sandra Morris was not to know whether the gun was loaded or not. He has a version of the story which says the reason for doing it, was that she was spreading rumours about him. The Cat, which he admits to murdering, represents a disturbing trait, which if you have a look at some of the other cases on here, you would see is common. People that harm animals, have the capability to harm humans. (I would have him thrown in prison for life after harming that Cat, hideous behaviour.)

So he robbed a store and was punished for that, but why would LE & other agencies, spend their time persecuting him? He was always likely to get himself into trouble, two other members of his family have convictions for similar disturbing behaviour. Now, that is not to say he should automatically be tarred with the same brush, but listen to Barb when she talks about him.

He is a bad man.

As for the stitch up? I will politely agree to disagree. Lenk & Colborn had nothing to gain by doing it. It makes no sense.

As always, Peace & Love. x

It's all good, no need to apologize, we all have our days and i didn't take any offense. I know old Steven sounds like a bad*ss, but i am dubious he committed such a heinous crime. But we will see where it all goes with KZ.
And yeah my son still talks about the gun pointed at him and his friends, that was some scary stuff for sure. They were only in high school and they drove to that area to take some photos at night for orbs as one of his friends was into photography and had captured some orbs on film previously. The guy just showed up in his truck, and the boys didn't realize they were on private property.

 

[missy1974]

I know, I know. I'm sorry for being off hand.

However, looking at Avery and his past, he really is not a nice guy in my opinion.

RSBM

I bolded your statement above..... this is probably the one thing that a lot of people would agree with you about. But it's not a popularity contest. JMO

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

RSBM

I bolded your statement above..... this is probably the one thing that a lot of people would agree with you about. But it's not a popularity contest. JMO

I know Missy1974 - but I'm not saying because I feel he is a wrong 'un, then he is guilty of what he has been convicted of.

Can I ask a question please?

If you had the opportunity to frame someone, would you not have sprayed their blood around the inside of the Victims car with a Hosepipe? (Forgive me my friend, I have used that phrase on other threads.)

I meet people all the time who have far more tolerance than I do. Sometimes, it is embarrassing as I have to listen to their reason. (The UK case of Madeline McCann disappearing is an example..... Don't Google it, you will lose yourself for three days.)

But all I see here, is people thinking there has been a set up. I do realise that people get framed all the time. Google the Birmingham Six or the Guilford Three - bloody hell, they were seriously set up as being terrorists, when they all were entirely innocent.

However, I am sticking to my view that Avery murdered Teresa. This is my opinion. Thanks for being so courteous.

Peace & Love x

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

It's all good, no need to apologize, we all have our days and i didn't take any offense. I know old Steven sounds like a bad*ss, but i am dubious he committed such a heinous crime. But we will see where it all goes with KZ.
And yeah my son still talks about the gun pointed at him and his friends, that was some scary stuff for sure. They were only in high school and they drove to that area to take some photos at night for orbs as one of his friends was into photography and had captured some orbs on film previously. The guy just showed up in his truck, and the boys didn't realize they were on private property.

We run the risk of going off topic here Karinna...... However, Being the cynical human that I am, I gave the vision of Orbs completely short shrift. Then i saw some when walking through a Park with some friends. I have no explanation for the sight of them

I am terrified on your behalf for the experience your son had. Looking down the barrel of a Gun? There is probably just being chased by a Tiger or trying to swim away from a Shark, that is more terrifying.

I trust he is ok and has not suffered any long term effects. Back on topic though, Avery is guilty unless my new found internet friends can tell me otherwise.

Peace & Love x

 

[missy1974]

I know Missy1974 - but I'm not saying because I feel he is a wrong 'un, then he is guilty of what he has been convicted of.

Can I ask a question please?

If you had the opportunity to frame someone, would you not have sprayed their blood around the inside of the Victims car with a Hosepipe? (Forgive me my friend, I have used that phrase on other threads.)

I meet people all the time who have far more tolerance than I do. Sometimes, it is embarrassing as I have to listen to their reason. (The UK case of Madeline McCann disappearing is an example..... Don't Google it, you will lose yourself for three days.)

But all I see here, is people thinking there has been a set up. I do realise that people get framed all the time. Google the Birmingham Six or the Guilford Three - bloody hell, they were seriously set up as being terrorists, when they all were entirely innocent.

However, I am sticking to my view that Avery murdered Teresa. This is my opinion. Thanks for being so courteous.


Peace & Love x

first off.... I had to google hosepipe to make sure it was what I thought Garden hose? lol

I think anyone with knowledge of a crime scene would not have sprayed the vehicle with the blood. Why? because it would be to obvious and it wasn't like there was an unlimited amount of SA's blood sitting in the evidence room, and if that vial was used, if it was all gone, that would be an issue too (assuming that there was only 1 vial of his blood sitting around in a box on the counter at Manitowoc County Clerks office) IMO But the amount of blood in the RAV4 is one of the reasons that I believe it could have been planted. If we go to Nick Stahlke's testimony, he is asked about the amount of blood, here is his answer:

A. About the only thing I can tell you is that a natural stain would -- or a drop of blood contains about a .05 milliliters.

Q. And do you think .05 milliliters could have made every stain you observed in the passenger compartment of that car?

A. No.

Q. Twice that?

A. It would have been much more than that.

Q. And what do you mean by much more?

A. It probably would have been -- If you want me to quantitate the amount of blood that was required to use those -- or produce those stains, I would have to guess between one and two milliliters.

Q. One and two milliliters

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. That's a guess?

A. That's a guess.

Q. But based on your experience?

A. Yes.

Q. And your training?

A. Right.

Nick Stahlke was a State Crime Lab employee, testifying for the State as a bloodstain expert. That exchange above tells me that, IMO, that the stains were unnatural, and the amount was way more than what it should have been. 6 spots of blood in the RAV4 were attributed to Steven Avery. 6 x .05 = .30 ml's, he estimated it at 1-2ml's, even at the low end of that estimation, it is over 3 times the amount from a "natural drop of blood". It is almost 7 times the amount on his high estimation.

It should be noted that the vial was a 10ml vial .... the FBI noted it had 5.5ml's, and LabCorp noted consuming 1ml for testing back in 2003.


I get that we all have opinions, I think that my opinion is based on the facts that I do know and have available. And based on those facts, I can definitely see motive and opportunity for framing SA. Add to that, the poor investigation, and yep, I have some serious questions about what actually happened here. JMO

:hug:

 

[dexter75]

first off.... I had to google hosepipe to make sure it was what I thought Garden hose? lol

I think anyone with knowledge of a crime scene would not have sprayed the vehicle with the blood. Why? because it would be to obvious and it wasn't like there was an unlimited amount of SA's blood sitting in the evidence room, and if that vial was used, if it was all gone, that would be an issue too (assuming that there was only 1 vial of his blood sitting around in a box on the counter at Manitowoc County Clerks office) IMO But the amount of blood in the RAV4 is one of the reasons that I believe it could have been planted. If we go to Nick Stahlke's testimony, he is asked about the amount of blood, here is his answer:

A. About the only thing I can tell you is that a natural stain would -- or a drop of blood contains about a .05 milliliters.

Q. And do you think .05 milliliters could have made every stain you observed in the passenger compartment of that car?

A. No.

Q. Twice that?

A. It would have been much more than that.

Q. And what do you mean by much more?

A. It probably would have been -- If you want me to quantitate the amount of blood that was required to use those -- or produce those stains, I would have to guess between one and two milliliters.

Q. One and two milliliters

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. That's a guess?

A. That's a guess.

Q. But based on your experience?

A. Yes.

Q. And your training?

A. Right.

Nick Stahlke was a State Crime Lab employee, testifying for the State as a bloodstain expert. That exchange above tells me that, IMO, that the stains were unnatural, and the amount was way more than what it should have been. 6 spots of blood in the RAV4 were attributed to Steven Avery. 6 x .05 = .30 ml's, he estimated it at 1-2ml's, even at the low end of that estimation, it is over 3 times the amount from a "natural drop of blood". It is almost 7 times the amount on his high estimation.

It should be noted that the vial was a 10ml vial .... the FBI noted it had 5.5ml's, and LabCorp noted consuming 1ml for testing back in 2003.


I get that we all have opinions, I think that my opinion is based on the facts that I do know and have available. And based on those facts, I can definitely see motive and opportunity for framing SA. Add to that, the poor investigation, and yep, I have some serious questions about what actually happened here. JMO

:hug:

Excellent response Missy! Thank you so much for always being patient and mature enough to explain things as nicely as you do.:loveyou:
I have ALWAYS appreciated this the most about you:smooch::tyou:

 

[dexter75]

Thanks dexter, and agree with what you say. I watched a lengthy video the other day with Steven Avery in an interview, those Manitowocians have a funny way of talking. I am used to the southern accent as hubby hails from Macon, Georgia.

Oh yes! We have a LOT of family in Brunswick, GA ( small world I tell ya ) Grandparents on my father's side lived there. ( along with aunts, uncles & cousins )
Accent was extremely southern. So much so that us kids would return home after a long vacation with a slight southern accent:crazy: Took at LEAST 2 weeks or better to drop words like " y'all, fixin to, younguns, yapper, and lick " from our vocabulary:giggle:

 

[Karinna]

Oh yes! We have a LOT of family in Brunswick, GA ( small world I tell ya ) Grandparents on my father's side lived there. ( along with aunts, uncles & cousins )
Accent was extremely southern. So much so that us kids would return home after a long vacation with a slight southern accent:crazy: Took at LEAST 2 weeks or better to drop words like " y'all, fixin to, younguns, yapper, and lick " from our vocabulary:giggle:

Love it, My hubby was born in GA, but family now are in FL. They lived there now for a long time. One brother of his in NC. I am Aussie/American and back in Aus. now for a few years.
But yeah i miss the southerners they're lovely peeps and fun too, Miss the "fish fries" with fixin's.

 

[dexter75]

Love it, My hubby was born in GA, but family now are in FL. They lived there now for a long time. One brother of his in NC. I am Aussie/American and back in Aus. now for a few years.
But yeah i miss the southerners they're lovely peeps and fun too, Miss the "fish fries" with fixin's.

Yum❤
Nothing like fresh caught seafood! Grandma would fry us up fresh shrimp n hush puppies, OMGOSH! ( we'd walk the pier & get it FRESH from folks selling it ) Anyway, fresh fish , gator, anything fresh caught is simply AMAZING❤
I have an aunt and uncle in Ft. Myers Beach FL😉 We vacation there, as well as Myrtle Beach often❤
Australia is a dream vacation of ours that is in the works❤😉
Looking forward to seeing the beautiful landscape. The #1 reason my daughter says we MUST do Australia next?
The spectacular wildlife in Australia of course!😉

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