Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

Is Steven Avery responsible for the murder of Teresa Halbach?

  • He did it

    Votes: 253 29.7%
  • Some other guy did it

    Votes: 67 7.9%
  • Looks guilty at this point

    Votes: 74 8.7%
  • Not guilty based on evidence I've seen thus far

    Votes: 195 22.9%
  • Undecided, but believe new trial is in order

    Votes: 254 29.8%
  • Undecided all around; more information required

    Votes: 55 6.5%

  • Total voters
    852
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Yum❤
Nothing like fresh caught seafood! Grandma would fry us up fresh shrimp n hush puppies, OMGOSH! ( we'd walk the pier & get it FRESH from folks selling it ) Anyway, fresh fish , gator, anything fresh caught is simply AMAZING❤
I have an aunt and uncle in Ft. Myers Beach FL😉 We vacation there, as well as Myrtle Beach often❤
Australia is a dream vacation of ours that is in the works❤😉
Looking forward to seeing the beautiful landscape. The #1 reason my daughter says we MUST do Australia next?
The spectacular wildlife in Australia of course!😉

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My hubby and i used to go out on the lake in GA and catch freshwater bass mostly for fish fry. Never tried gator, but have tried crocodile, so maybe similar? Oh yeah hush puppies are awesome, i love them. You know i laughed when i heard that because in Aus. they have shoes called Hush Puppies, and the Aussies give you a funny look when you talk about hush puppies being yummy, LOL.
I hope you do get to see Australia, it's interesting. The landscape inland can be very dry in summer & the coastline is beautiful.
 
We run the risk of going off topic here Karinna...... However, Being the cynical human that I am, I gave the vision of Orbs completely short shrift. Then i saw some when walking through a Park with some friends. I have no explanation for the sight of them

I am terrified on your behalf for the experience your son had. Looking down the barrel of a Gun? There is probably just being chased by a Tiger or trying to swim away from a Shark, that is more terrifying.

I trust he is ok and has not suffered any long term effects. Back on topic though, Avery is guilty unless my new found internet friends can tell me otherwise.

Peace & Love x
YOU, are so SO polite Hoosen_Fenger 😊
Thank you😉
I started to type a response/ post last night to " one " of these posts of yours and...
I fell asleep😔 Right smack dab in the middle of it!😂
Oops. Oh well
(Woke up at 2 am with my laptop DEAD & in my lap.)
Anyway, I had to HURRY it up and look to be sure I didn't submit one HALF of a reply, or worse, post something that might offend you. ( happens often lately around here..ugh )

I myself, am not easily offended at ALL.
I have to keep in mind though, everyone thinks & feels differently. Not to mention some folks are MUCH more SENSITIVE than I am.

As often as our opinions may differ, you have always remained respectful and considerate.
You have never been rude or insulting.
In fact, you've never implied ANYTHING which suggests I must have "something" wrong with me for stating all along that I believe Avery is innocent.
( now, if you've thought this in your HEAD about me?..well.😉🙄 hahaha)

Just thought it was worth mentioning.
Your kindness and consideration doesn't go unnoticed😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
We run the risk of going off topic here Karinna...... However, Being the cynical human that I am, I gave the vision of Orbs completely short shrift. Then i saw some when walking through a Park with some friends. I have no explanation for the sight of them

I am terrified on your behalf for the experience your son had. Looking down the barrel of a Gun? There is probably just being chased by a Tiger or trying to swim away from a Shark, that is more terrifying.

I trust he is ok and has not suffered any long term effects. Back on topic though, Avery is guilty unless my new found internet friends can tell me otherwise.

Peace & Love x

Hi Hoosen, Just reading back and missed this post. Thankyou for your reply and yes it was a scary experience for the boys. They are all fine. That's so cool about your experience with orbs. And yes back on topic, :)
I know you think SA is guilty, and it will be interesting to see where this case goes, :cheers:
 
I'd rather have 10 guilty man go free than imprison or execute an innocent man. I believe reasonable doubt was definitely raised in this case and it's quite obvious that police tampering of evidence took place on many levels.

Steve should have been found Not Guilty based on the evidence as a standard of guilt was not met. I voted Not Guilty and feel Steve will be released within 5 years.
 
A couple questions I just watched the Series..and have read on here a couple things want to see if they are true or not.
Did Brendan Dassey have bleach stains on his pants from cleaning the garage that night?
Did Steven Avery really buy leg shackles earlier the day Teresa went missing?
One more..was that garage bleached, gasolined and pain thinner used on it?
 
BIB are my answers:
A couple questions I just watched the Series..and have read on here a couple things want to see if they are true or not.
Did Brendan Dassey have bleach stains on his pants from cleaning the garage that night? Yes. This was verified by Dassey himself, his Mother and her boyfriend Scott.
Did Steven Avery really buy leg shackles earlier the day Teresa went missing? Yes he bought them, but some weeks before. He claimed they were for his girlfriend who was in prison, and not due for release until March 2006.
One more..was that garage bleached, gasolined and pain thinner used on it? Dassey & Avery later admitted to cleaning a small area on the Garage floor they say had engine fluid on it. Yes they also used paint thinners & gasoline as well as bleach. (Most mechanics would use sand?)

If you are just joining the discussions on Avery & Dassey, welcome. Now, if you found you lost ten hours watching MaM, then here is a link that will remove you from social circles for the next 6 weeks. :) It contains SOME of the documentation surrounding the case, plus certain transcripts & evidence. http://www.stevenaverycase.org

I would start with the interviews on 5th & 6th of November, and then let your own thoughts guide you as to which pieces of the puzzle you want to look at next. There is obviously way more info here than was in MaM, and many of us have been debating the content all year.

I won't give you any spoilers of other evidence which is in the same vein as above, but I will declare that I am in the (very small) group of people who feel Avery & Dassey are both guilty, as I waded through all the above stuff.

Happy reading, & welcome to the discussion.
 
"
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by SweetT

A couple questions I just watched the Series..and have read on here a couple things want to see if they are true or not.
Did Brendan Dassey have bleach stains on his pants from cleaning the garage that night? Yes. This was verified by Dassey himself, his Mother and her boyfriend Scott.
Did Steven Avery really buy leg shackles earlier the day Teresa went missing? Yes he bought them, but some weeks before. He claimed they were for his girlfriend who was in prison, and not due for release until March 2006.
One more..was that garage bleached, gasolined and pain thinner used on it? Dassey & Avery later admitted to cleaning a small area on the Garage floor they say had engine fluid on it. Yes they also used paint thinners & gasoline as well as bleach. (Most mechanics would use sand?)"

Hello, Since there is so much misinformation and tainted evidence out there, Hoosenfenger, can you please provide links to the answers you provided above? It would be greatly appreciated! Thank-you.

 
"
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by SweetT

A couple questions I just watched the Series..and have read on here a couple things want to see if they are true or not.
Did Brendan Dassey have bleach stains on his pants from cleaning the garage that night? Yes. This was verified by Dassey himself, his Mother and her boyfriend Scott.
Did Steven Avery really buy leg shackles earlier the day Teresa went missing? Yes he bought them, but some weeks before. He claimed they were for his girlfriend who was in prison, and not due for release until March 2006.
One more..was that garage bleached, gasolined and pain thinner used on it? Dassey & Avery later admitted to cleaning a small area on the Garage floor they say had engine fluid on it. Yes they also used paint thinners & gasoline as well as bleach. (Most mechanics would use sand?)"

Hello, Since there is so much misinformation and tainted evidence out there, Hoosenfenger, can you please provide links to the answers you provided above? It would be greatly appreciated! Thank-you.


Taken from Dassey's trial:
Brendan admitting he helped clean up the stain in the garage (Start at page 32)

Taken from Avery's trial
Photo's entered as evidence at trial - scroll down to weapons to see handcuffs. Avery admitting to buying them is in the transcript.

Hope this helps.
 
Taken from Dassey's trial:
Brendan admitting he helped clean up the stain in the garage (Start at page 32)

Taken from Avery's trial
Photo's entered as evidence at trial - scroll down to weapons to see handcuffs. Avery admitting to buying them is in the transcript.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for posting the links. Hmmm....as far as the handcuffs, I would hardly consider that to be damning evidence against SA. There was no attempt to hide them and they reportedly had DNA only from SA and an "unidentified source". No evidence whatsoever that they were used on TH. I'm pretty sure the other points have also been "debunked", but will look into that later. All IMO only.
 
Thanks for posting the links. Hmmm....as far as the handcuffs, I would hardly consider that to be damning evidence against SA. There was no attempt to hide them and they reportedly had DNA only from SA and an "unidentified source". No evidence whatsoever that they were used on TH. I'm pretty sure the other points have also been "debunked", but will look into that later. All IMO only.

Agreed
NO TH DNA found on the handcuffs. IIRC
( or bed, bedposts, garage floor.... )
 
Taken from Dassey's trial:
Brendan admitting he helped clean up the stain in the garage (Start at page 32)

Taken from Avery's trial
Photo's entered as evidence at trial - scroll down to weapons to see handcuffs. Avery admitting to buying them is in the transcript.

Hope this helps.

Brendan admitted helping clean up a stain he said " could have " been blood but thought LOOKED LIKE fluid from a car. ( read from the pages you provided here. ) Furthermore, it took all but 15 minutes to throw down some old clothes that " didn't fit any more " and wipe the floor " with their feet " before tossing the rags into the fire with their fingers.
No disrespect intended..however WHAT part of this is SO DAMNING to him? Throw in also the " open ended questions " B.S. and I just don't get it?
 
"
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by SweetT

A couple questions I just watched the Series..and have read on here a couple things want to see if they are true or not.
Did Brendan Dassey have bleach stains on his pants from cleaning the garage that night? Yes. This was verified by Dassey himself, his Mother and her boyfriend Scott.
Did Steven Avery really buy leg shackles earlier the day Teresa went missing? Yes he bought them, but some weeks before. He claimed they were for his girlfriend who was in prison, and not due for release until March 2006.
One more..was that garage bleached, gasolined and pain thinner used on it? Dassey & Avery later admitted to cleaning a small area on the Garage floor they say had engine fluid on it. Yes they also used paint thinners & gasoline as well as bleach. (Most mechanics would use sand?)"

Hello, Since there is so much misinformation and tainted evidence out there, Hoosenfenger, can you please provide links to the answers you provided above? It would be greatly appreciated! Thank-you.


Sand absorbs a " thicker " or larger spill, as I have a family member who is a mechanic but does nothing for a stain. In fact, most mechanics choose kitty litter over sand. MANY do use Tide, paint thinner, kerosene, gasoline, etc. when cleaning greasy stains & looking for products they have on hand that will do the job.
 
Brendan admitted helping clean up a stain he said " could have " been blood but thought LOOKED LIKE fluid from a car. ( read from the pages you provided here. ) Furthermore, it took all but 15 minutes to throw down some old clothes that " didn't fit any more " and wipe the floor " with their feet " before tossing the rags into the fire with their fingers.
No disrespect intended..however WHAT part of this is SO DAMNING to him? Throw in also the " open ended questions " B.S. and I just don't get it?

Don't worry, no disrespect taken.

Now, looked at on its own? There is nothing damning about this at all. Just two people, cleaning up a stain that one of them has no idea what it is, nor why it is so important, that it must be cleaned up on a Monday evening.

Now it is my turn to caveat what I am about to type, with the hope you do not take this the wrong way.

On its own? Cleaning a stain in the garage is nothing. However, add a few coincidences & 'memory lapses' and it should give any inquisitive mind, cause for concern. Avery's garage was like the junk yard and his trailer, a real mess. Debris lay all around and its lack of cleanliness was in keeping with its surroundings.

Avery & Dassey decide to clean a 3 ft by 3ft stain on the floor of this garage, on the same day that Teresa is last seen alive. They also decide to have a bonfire at the same time. Coincidence? Possibly, but not as much as a coincidence as them both 'forgetting' to tell LE during the initial interviews on the 5th & 6th of November. One of them forgetting? Maybe. Both of them????

It does not end there.

You would think, that if you had a fire and forgot about it, a policeman asking you when was the last time you actually had a fire, might make you think a little more. Given the last fire you had was with your Nephew, and you both drove around your property in a Golf Buggy collecting material for it, including a car seat, branches, tyres & a cabinet, that it might jog your memory. Here, I am going to use the word kindly and say it was just a coincidence that Avery forgot about this.

The night of the fire though, is not just a random night though. By sheer coincidence, the night of the fire is Halloween. Quite a memorable evening by all accounts and one that Dassey might remember as he recalled his Brother going Trick or Treating. Coincidentally, Dassey's Mother was away for most of the early evening, visiting her Boyfriends Mother in hospital. However both she and her Boyfriend, did recall the bonfire, which is another (albeit unfortunate) coincidence.

Now another memory lapse. Avery was asked what he was wearing that night, during those first interviews on the 5th & 6th of November. He says he could not remember. Fair enough. He has only been asked about that night a couple of times in TV interviews & a call from LE in the last couple of days. He forgot. Sure. No problem. By sheer coincidence, he has some clothes in the boot/ trunk of his car. However, his memory actually stands him in good stead here, because when asked if he was wearing any of those on Halloween less than a week ago, he is adamant that they were not the ones.

Now, this is where memory lapse works in a mysterious way. He can't remember what he was wearing, but he can remember what he wasn't, if you catch my drift. This by the way, is the night he had a bonfire with his nephew, who remembered changing out of the clothes he wore to school, put some clean jeans on out of his drawer, but then changed out of them again later in the evening, despite saying they were not covered in any of the substance he was helping to clean. (He did get bleach on them, but as you will know, bleach only shows itself after a wash.)

Back to the coincidences (which might make a policeman a little suspicious.) The same night, that two people coincidentally have a bonfire but don't tell LE, two separate people (Radant & Fabian) see the fire. One of whom, tells LE before the car was found. Speaking of coincidences, the car that was found, belonged to the girl Avery told police in early November, had been to his property several times. Memory lapse alert: During those interviews he could only vaguely describe her. (When asked what she looked like, he said 'Kinda Skinny.... Like my Sister' and her hair was 'Darker and kinda shorter.' )Coincidentally, he had been asked about her by a TV crew days earlier, and her picture was plastered all over the TV for the previous 48 hours since she had been reported missing. (Ask Barb, she called home & told Dassey to put the TV on.) I don't know wether that is both a coincidence she was on the TV and /or bad memory that he couldn't remember the detail.

Coincidentally, the two other appointments Teresa had that day, could recall she wore a white shirt, blues jeans and a waist length dark jacket. Stephen Schmitz & JoEllen Zipperer, both gave statements describing what Teresa wore that day. Avery is the only only out of the three that cannot remember.

Back to the fire. Coincidentally, there was a burn barrel next to the site of the bonfire. This also was in use on Halloween, and by some coincidence, some personal possessions of the missing Woman, were found in that barrel. You have guessed it, Avery forgets about using this and says that stuff was planted in that and the pit. The last thing he forgets for now? His mad chained up Dog that would not let investigators near the fire pit. Avery coincidentally forgot that the person he claims planted evidence, would have had the same issue with his dog.

I could go on. The biggest frustration I have in this case is that many people look at evidence in isolation. Not to accuse you of it Dexter, but a Jury in each trial had many things to consider. Not least, the amount of coincidences and early Amnesia of the two protagonists.

Cleaning the garage floor? No problem. Cleaning it the same night as a girl goes missing and is murdered, whilst 'forgetting' major events that evening?? A fishy as a Salmon having been eaten by a Tuna in a Sardine factory......
 
Don't worry, no disrespect taken.

Now, looked at on its own? There is nothing damning about this at all. Just two people, cleaning up a stain that one of them has no idea what it is, nor why it is so important, that it must be cleaned up on a Monday evening.

Now it is my turn to caveat what I am about to type, with the hope you do not take this the wrong way.

On its own? Cleaning a stain in the garage is nothing. However, add a few coincidences & 'memory lapses' and it should give any inquisitive mind, cause for concern. Avery's garage was like the junk yard and his trailer, a real mess. Debris lay all around and its lack of cleanliness was in keeping with its surroundings.

Avery & Dassey decide to clean a 3 ft by 3ft stain on the floor of this garage, on the same day that Teresa is last seen alive. They also decide to have a bonfire at the same time. Coincidence? Possibly, but not as much as a coincidence as them both 'forgetting' to tell LE during the initial interviews on the 5th & 6th of November. One of them forgetting? Maybe. Both of them????

It does not end there.

You would think, that if you had a fire and forgot about it, a policeman asking you when was the last time you actually had a fire, might make you think a little more. Given the last fire you had was with your Nephew, and you both drove around your property in a Golf Buggy collecting material for it, including a car seat, branches, tyres & a cabinet, that it might jog your memory. Here, I am going to use the word kindly and say it was just a coincidence that Avery forgot about this.

The night of the fire though, is not just a random night though. By sheer coincidence, the night of the fire is Halloween. Quite a memorable evening by all accounts and one that Dassey might remember as he recalled his Brother going Trick or Treating. Coincidentally, Dassey's Mother was away for most of the early evening, visiting her Boyfriends Mother in hospital. However both she and her Boyfriend, did recall the bonfire, which is another (albeit unfortunate) coincidence.

Now another memory lapse. Avery was asked what he was wearing that night, during those first interviews on the 5th & 6th of November. He says he could not remember. Fair enough. He has only been asked about that night a couple of times in TV interviews & a call from LE in the last couple of days. He forgot. Sure. No problem. By sheer coincidence, he has some clothes in the boot/ trunk of his car. However, his memory actually stands him in good stead here, because when asked if he was wearing any of those on Halloween less than a week ago, he is adamant that they were not the ones.

Now, this is where memory lapse works in a mysterious way. He can't remember what he was wearing, but he can remember what he wasn't, if you catch my drift. This by the way, is the night he had a bonfire with his nephew, who remembered changing out of the clothes he wore to school, put some clean jeans on out of his drawer, but then changed out of them again later in the evening, despite saying they were not covered in any of the substance he was helping to clean. (He did get bleach on them, but as you will know, bleach only shows itself after a wash.)

Back to the coincidences (which might make a policeman a little suspicious.) The same night, that two people coincidentally have a bonfire but don't tell LE, two separate people (Radant & Fabian) see the fire. One of whom, tells LE before the car was found. Speaking of coincidences, the car that was found, belonged to the girl Avery told police in early November, had been to his property several times. Memory lapse alert: During those interviews he could only vaguely describe her. (When asked what she looked like, he said 'Kinda Skinny.... Like my Sister' and her hair was 'Darker and kinda shorter.' )Coincidentally, he had been asked about her by a TV crew days earlier, and her picture was plastered all over the TV for the previous 48 hours since she had been reported missing. (Ask Barb, she called home & told Dassey to put the TV on.) I don't know wether that is both a coincidence she was on the TV and /or bad memory that he couldn't remember the detail.

Coincidentally, the two other appointments Teresa had that day, could recall she wore a white shirt, blues jeans and a waist length dark jacket. Stephen Schmitz & JoEllen Zipperer, both gave statements describing what Teresa wore that day. Avery is the only only out of the three that cannot remember.

Back to the fire. Coincidentally, there was a burn barrel next to the site of the bonfire. This also was in use on Halloween, and by some coincidence, some personal possessions of the missing Woman, were found in that barrel. You have guessed it, Avery forgets about using this and says that stuff was planted in that and the pit. The last thing he forgets for now? His mad chained up Dog that would not let investigators near the fire pit. Avery coincidentally forgot that the person he claims planted evidence, would have had the same issue with his dog.

I could go on. The biggest frustration I have in this case is that many people look at evidence in isolation. Not to accuse you of it Dexter, but a Jury in each trial had many things to consider. Not least, the amount of coincidences and early Amnesia of the two protagonists.

Cleaning the garage floor? No problem. Cleaning it the same night as a girl goes missing and is murdered, whilst 'forgetting' major events that evening?? A fishy as a Salmon having been eaten by a Tuna in a Sardine factory......
Nah😉 You're good I don't get offended. It's your take on the case and it's why we are all here, right?
Being rude just to be rude, being disrespectful, or whining about everything drives me nuts! You aren't any of those things😉
You're likeable & very respectful.
I think Steve knew, or at the very least suspected LE was setting him up...AGAIN.
Perhaps he couldn't think clearly because it's all he could think about..
Looking at the whole picture😉
Time will tell😊 I can certainly see how you feel how you do ( to a point )
But these fellas had the
MEANS
OPPORTUNITY
MOTIVE
to frame him.

Looking at the big picture this all went down DAYS before a pretty important deposition was to take place.
Coincidence? Nah..not IMO


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Sand absorbs a " thicker " or larger spill, as I have a family member who is a mechanic but does nothing for a stain. In fact, most mechanics choose kitty litter over sand. MANY do use Tide, paint thinner, kerosene, gasoline, etc. when cleaning greasy stains & looking for products they have on hand that will do the job.

You know someone who uses sand to deal with fluid spills? Interesting. I know that Tide is sometimes used to clean shop floors. I guess that volatile things like kerosene, paint thinner or gasoline could be used but it could cause a fire.

JMO
 
You know someone who uses sand to deal with fluid spills? Interesting. I know that Tide is sometimes used to clean shop floors. I guess that volatile things like kerosene, paint thinner or gasoline could be used but it could cause a fire.

JMO
Absolutely do and couldn't agree with you more, RANCH. ( I personally think it's irresponsible & unsafe )
Actually..one of the guys I am thinking about is IN CHARGE of the shop/business.
Uses gasoline😔

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Dexter, Thank-you for presenting more of the facts than I had time to earlier!!! I respect your extensive knowledge of the case and open mindedness. :loveyou:
 
Nah�� You're good I don't get offended. It's your take on the case and it's why we are all here, right?
Being rude just to be rude, being disrespectful, or whining about everything drives me nuts! You aren't any of those things��
You're likeable & very respectful.
I think Steve knew, or at the very least suspected LE was setting him up...AGAIN.
Perhaps he couldn't think clearly because it's all he could think about..
Looking at the whole picture��
Time will tell�� I can certainly see how you feel how you do ( to a point )
But these fellas had the
MEANS
OPPORTUNITY
MOTIVE
to frame him.

Looking at the big picture this all went down DAYS before a pretty important deposition was to take place.
Coincidence? Nah..not IMO


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Well, you and I have disagreed on this for some time and it is great that we can debate our thoughts. One thing I do not fully understand from your position, is do you think that Avery is totally innocent and everything was planted, or do you feel he did something and certain aspects were tampered with?

And.... at the risk of going down a Rabbit Hole.... :drumroll:

If not Avery, then who killed Teresa and how did they manage to frame Avery for it? :)
 
Dexter, Thank-you for presenting more of the facts than I had time to earlier!!! I respect your extensive knowledge of the case and open mindedness. :loveyou:
Back atcha😉 You're welcome❤

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