The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[KG1]

off subject , what do we think about rolph harris

I think enough damning evidence has been presented in the case to convict Rolf Harris. JMO

 

[Groundedgirl]

Another interesting tidbit re the "view" on Monday, is that GBC had to make a request/application to court, to NOT attend. The judge accepted the request. Does this mean that the defendant would usually attend the viewing - do you know Ali? Would be so interesting as a juror to spend the whole time just watching him, if that were the case. No wonder he wouldn't want to attend (guilty or innocent admittedly).

He may have been advised not to go........don't want the jury to see him 'outside' for some reason

 

[Onlyone]

My blood runs cold when I think the verdict it might be considered without reasonable doubt. The BC's are without doubt hokey but that doesn't make them wicked. However the way they have used Allison's struggles against her, their neglect of her while living and their derision on gone are beyond belief. <modsnip>.
Who knows what happened that night? One man knows but he doesn't know how to lie straight in bed. I believe house was super clean that morning due to the nervous energy of someone or more with a very guilty conscious. I think he thought there would be more time to deep clean, to remove or add evidence - no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Consider]

Does anyone remember whether one of the cars was seen at the showground on the morning of 20th april? Somewhere in the dark recesses of my brain I think I can.

If so. perhaps GBC was not driving the streets before the police arrived, instead he may have been at the showground scrubbing and scrubbing those tyres, using the facilities there. He would have been familiar with same, because he was closely associated with events there.

I think there is also evidence of a phone call from his phone to the groundsman at the showground later in the day - a bit like the call to Bruce Flegg to find out about the camera at the roundabout. Just a thought!

Does anyone else think it was a huge risk for one or two people to drive Allison away from the home for such a long time and thereby leaving one or more of the girls able to wake up, become distressed at mum and dad not home when the child is entirely capable of calling 000 or grandparents herself?

 

[Mountain Misst]

:cheers:

Morning MM

From Todd Fuller's opening address:

"He said a hair attached to the blood stain was later confirmed with DNA as belonging to Ms Baden-Clay."

 

[Groundedgirl]

Hmmm
Just wondering:
When did GBC google "self-incriminating"?

Googled it:

Self-incrimination is the act of exposing oneself (generally, by making a statement) "to an accusation or charge of crime; to involve oneself or another [person] in a criminal prosecution or the danger thereof."

In a sentence:

It looks very self-incriminating when a person googles 'self-incrimination' just before reporting one's spouse as missing".

 

[Tishy]

My blood runs cold when I think the verdict it might be considered without reasonable doubt. The BC's are without doubt hokey but that doesn't make them wicked. However the way they have used Allison's struggles against her, their neglect of her while living and their derision on gone are beyond belief. <modsnip> Who knows what happened that night? One man knows but he doesn't know how to lie straight in bed. I believe house was super clean that morning due to the nervous energy of someone or more with a very guilty conscious. I think he thought there would be more time to deep clean, to remove or add evidence - no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

BBM
Yes, it's those, and their participation or covering up which makes them wicked. IMOO

 

[westie]

I looked through the autopsy report again and something bothered me. There is no mention of blood being on ABC's clothes anywhere. This would perhaps indicate a bleed from the head? I thought maybe the shin, but there was no blood on her pants, socks or shoes. I agree with Dr Watson about her perhaps being dressed after the fact as the lace on her left shoe came undone so easily. I'm also thinking that maybe she has been carried over the shoulder 'bag of cement style' it would help explain the plant matter only being on her upper torso/head area, the chipped tooth and the marks on GBC's chest and armpit.

 

[ollijack]

So true.
Sadly my exact experience and my ex grew up having once lived in Brookfield.
In my case my father-in-law (very old school, pretentious voice with no financial success of his own) to this day lives with my 50yr old ex (and my "pretty, firm and 10 year younger replacement).

NBC was too involved in his son's life and and unfair expectations re the family name I suspect.

In my circumstances - refuge helped, centrelink too, lawyers invoices soaked up settlement so no deposit for a roof over our heads of our own, we rent.

He 'forgot' these past few years to make seeing the kids a priority beyond a few hours each year - so that and having control of the remote control, being allowed to express their opinions and not seeing me be 'hurt' by him anymore is priceless freedom we never dared dream of. Heehee.

There are no friends or family to reach out to though. He eneded those a decade ago and sadly some people thought we were 'successful' (and so,are naturally fairly pleased I/we came unstuck I suspect) with our 'appearance' (we were not successful on any level in hindsight but certainly had the look of it!).

The double degree as you say needed dusting off and isn't worth it's stamp today. The future? Who knows - I trust no one and men? Forget about it.

But after tears and managing thoughts without any form of medication I continue to stand up in court and fight off all his new challenges.

Keeping us housed, fed, healthy and happy until all adults and truly free of him is priority.

If my daughter were forced to spend alternate weeks alone with him - I don't know that leaving would have been an intelligent decision. I stayed to protect her from ever being left for even an hour in his sole care - emotional and psychological damage are hard to prove when a man 'appears' to have so much to offer as opposed to an old, suddenly single mum...

We left, months later Allison went missing. I relate to aspects of her life reported but more to what I suspect never will be.

You amazing beautiful strong lady.........wow.....:loveyou:

 

[BJsleuth]

I thought early that morning even before he called police , marly will know

Prosecution alleged 7:09am but looking at his phone records, he called someone I'm presuming to be OW's mobile at 7:09am.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Googled it:

Self-incrimination is the act of exposing oneself (generally, by making a statement) "to an accusation or charge of crime; to involve oneself or another [person] in a criminal prosecution or the danger thereof."

In a sentence:

It looks very self-incriminating when a person googles 'self-incrimination' just before reporting one's spouse as missing".

Oh I do so much hope that little gem - googling self incrimination - gets woven into the fabric of evidence put before the jury...

 

[louisepiglet]

This is why I am getting nervous too. I watched all the evidence in the Casey Anthony case and thought there was only one way the verdict could go - but no she got off too, all circumstantial evidence. This is what has been worrying me lately, people want 100% proof positive, but that is rarely the case. I think we are starting to want that DNA or scientific objective evidence before we make decisions nowadays.

Surely enough circumstantial evidence would be convincing of guilt. The only 100% proof would be a witness. How many murders are committed with a witness. As I have said before. If GBC isn't guilty he must be the most unlucky person in the world. It is a perfect storm of circumstantial evidence. The jury must see that.

 

[LadyBird1]

Ok, so I have been poking around social media to 'gauge' the feeling re the evidence presented thus far. I have to say many people are saying they wouldn't convict unless they hear some 'hard' evidence and so far everything can be explained. Sadly I think people are looking for 100% proof which doesn't actually happen - and I am hoping that the jury has enough reason to look at ALL the circumstantial evidence to see how damning it is and not want proof positive for a guilty verdict.

Consider, if he gets off:

He get full custody of the girls
He gets all the money
He will probably sell his story to the media for $$$$$$$$$
He will probably ensure the Dickies never see the girls again
He may sue to get the rights to the girls' donation funds

What do you think?

To date the suicide theory has been blown right away, though some are still trying very hard to revive it.
To date it has been proven that Allison was not suicidal. More than that, she was RESILIENT (Very good word)
It has also been proved that Allison was a HAPPY person. Any depression that she suffered (and it is acknowledged that was had a degree of depression at some times) was not the type of depression that would cause her to suicide. She was not Moribund. She did not suffer Clinical Depression.

To date it has been proven, (well almost proven,) that the marks on his face were caused by fingernails. Not the result of a blunt razor.
IMO That is a pretty big thing to get around, as it also proves that the razor story is a lie.

IMO quite a fair bit has been established thus far.

 

[louisepiglet]

To date the suicide theory has been blown right away, though some are still trying very hard to revive it.
To date it has been proven that Allison was not suicidal. More than that, she was RESILIENT (Very good word)
It has also been proved that Allison was a HAPPY person. Any depression that she suffered (and it is acknowledged that was had a degree of depression at some times) was not the type of depression that would cause her to suicide. She was not Moribund. She did not suffer Clinical Depression.

To date it has been proven, (well almost proven,) that the marks on his face were caused by fingernails. Not the result of a blunt razor.
IMO That is a pretty big thing to get around, as it also proves that the razor story is a lie.

IMO quite a fair bit has been established thus far.

So why lie unless you have something to hide.

 

[drsleuth]

I'm pretty sure it was in the middle of a pile of books. It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know she kept a diary.

Didn't GBC draw a floor plan of TM's unit in Allison's diary?? Therefore he would know she had it.

It's the sketch that illustrated a painful affair.

Within the last entry of a journal belonging to slain Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay was a drawing penned by her husband Gerard Baden-Clay showing the layout of his mistress's apartment.

He circled the room marked "Bed 1".

According to detectives, the diagram supports the inference the couple had discussed Mr Baden-Clay's infidelity just hours before Allison's death.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-badenclay-20121217-2biqi.html#ixzz35923WRYt

 

[squizzey1]

so no one thinks rolph harris is innocent

 

[BJsleuth]

Is this helpful?

www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/.../sd-bb-46-circumstantial-evidence.pdf

 

[louisepiglet]

so no one thinks rolph harris is innocent

I think he is guilty. But he can't see that he did anything wrong.

 

[Cattail]

Wow that Lloyd Rayney case has some striking similarities to this case!

http://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Judgment_Summary_Rayney.pdf

That's not good - wasn't he found not guilty ?

 

[BJsleuth]

I think Rolf Harris has lost his marbles. Maybe he really doesn't remember. I'm not suggesting he didn't do it, just that he could have forgotten. His talking about how he came to use the wobble board etc on the stand and a few other things totally irrelevant to the accusations tell me he may be experiencing some kind of dementia. He doesn't seem (to me) to grasp the gravity of what he's accused of.