The Eikelenbooms and Touch DNA

[chefmom]

RBM

Snobby much?

Lol! Seriously! Not exactly the "Neighborhood Watch" type, huh? :dance:

 

[jon_burrows]

Oh please Hornsby, give me a NEW YORK break. It is NOT a huge issue - it is a "let me try anything issue because my client is guilty as sin and everyone knows it". These lawyers will say anything to get their face on TV. Rigggggggght. we also have a print on the tape that no one can identify and that is another HUGE issue for the prosecution.

31 days to call
Defendant seen partying while daughter was missing
Called only after mother's insistence
Hair consistent with Caylees with black ring found in the trunk
Insects Consistent with Purging fluids found in the trunk
FBI believes there is outline of child in the trunk (from purging)
Defendant lied to detectives about everything and confronted on it

This is just what we know. Prosecutors probably have other things to add to it. Such as the nonstop lying and the using of stories that happened to others to apply to herself. I can't tell you how many I have read about.

Does Hornsby get paid for these ridiculous interviews.


Defendant's father believes the trunk smelled like a dead body and said so
Defendant's father testified against her to grand jury
Defendant's father was in law enforcement for years
Defendant's brother and mother both lied to Morgan lawyers about KC and I cannot wait to see them confronted with their lies

So

ITA with your post. The touch DNA is not a huge issue.

I disagree with Hornsby’s opinion that the medical examiner’s office doesn’t add a lot to the case because they don’t know how Caylee died. No one can look at the case and simply pull bits and pieces that make nice sound bites. It has to be looked at in its entirety and I believe the medical examiner's report speaks volumes.

A few snippets from the autopsy report (comments by me in blue, warning graphic content):

-Homicide by undetermined means (she didn’t duct tape and triple bag herself)
-Last seen on alive on 6-16-08, reported missing 7-15-08 HELLO, an entire month and her mother parties, steals, gets a tattoo, etc. Also the Blockbuster video shows Casey but no Caylee. Caylee is unaccounted for at that time and without reasonable doubt can be considered deceased or dying in the trunk at that time. She was never seen alive by anyone during or after the video. Lies, lies, and more lies from Casey.
-Mandible still in approximate anatomic position with NO visible attached soft tissue beneath the duct tape
-The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place
-The clustering of vertebrae at the scene separate from the location of the bags and skull indicate animal activity occurring at this location after decomposition started, but before complete disarticulation of the skeleton. This indicates the body was put in this location prior to complete skeletonization.
-There is nothing inconsistent with the body being placed there soon after the date of being last seen alive. Again, she was last seen alive an entire month before anyone knew she was missing and Casey told a gem of a lie when she said she spoke to Caylee the day before LE was contacted (no phone records exist regarding this call). She was last seen alive at Blockbuster. Period. The imiginanny doesn't count.

The bold part is extremely important to debunk the body planting theory while Casey was in jail. Every ME talking head I’ve heard said complete skeletonization would have occurred within 2-3 weeks. If this is correct, Caylee’s little body had been reduced to bones before anyone knew she was missing except Casey. Taking it one step further, animal activity occurred after decomposition started but BEFORE complete skeletonization. It’s heart wrenching to type this but her body had already been torn apart BEFORE she was even reported missing.

A reasonable person with common sense can figure out the body was there the entire time. The alternative would be that she was dumped somewhere else, torn apart by animals, then someone managed to find almost her entire skeleton and placed it near the A home. They were also able to move her skull without dismembering her mandible. That scenario is not even remotely possible. Also, remember how long it took trained CSIs to comb through the woods and find her bones. The autopsy report states which bones they weren't able to find and it was minimal...very small bones.

I realize this is probably not the best thread to post this but I’m responding to Hornsby’s claims regarding the medical examiner’s report. ZsaZsa posted the report but I couldn't find her post in order to add a link here. The report can aslo be viewed at http://www.wesh.com/r/19801945/detail.html. I'm sure there are other posters who can add more to this post to debunk the defens's nonsense using the autopsy report.

Also wanted to add the touch DNA is just another attempt at smoke and mirrors. If they found any I'd be very suspicious since Caylee's DNA wasn't even on the duct tape. If they find any, it better be very degraded. I didn't follow the Jon Benet case closely but I seem to recall them finding some sort of DNA on her underwear and there was speculation that it came from a person in the underwear factory.

IMO

 

[strach304]

I hope there is some method to the madness. Even if there is some dna found identified or not, there better be a whole lot more to go with it. How did they get Caylee in the first place? Why didn't Casey tell anyone anything? Partying, lying, stealing mother, etc... Any witnesses to back up the latest version from Casey cause I sure wouldn't believe anything she says.

 

[kaRN]

I don't believe this really happened, but they could possibly say the semen washed away during the 6 months in the elements, but the skin cells stayed on the waistband of the shorts where the perp pulled them down.

Caylee wasn't fully toilet trained so it could easily be argued that touch DNA on a waistband came from someone assisting the baby girl rather than harming her.

 

[Spangle]

<snipped>

Ashton said he was concerned about the items leaving the country, where the prosecution would have no power to compel witnesses to testify. He also wanted to limit any damage to important pieces of evidence caused by transporting them great distances.

Ashton said he would not object to the items being tested at National Medical Services of Willow Grove, Pa. That facility is also acceptable to the defense team, according to its motion.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...casey-anthony-status-20100928,0,1617809.story

Acceptable to the defense ACCORDING to its MOTION.

That tells me that the defense didn't exactly say that THIS lab is ok. I'm guessing that this lab meets all the requirements that the defense claims in the motion to have needed and it meets all the requirements that the SA needs.

 

[joypath]

Well, well.....seems like the infamous Dutch duo will have to apply for a "temporary position" to work in the PA lab unless the laboratory director offers them the opportunity to perform the testing CONCURRENTLY with the ACCREDITED laboratory staff using the APPROVED laboratory protocols!

The entire principle of demanding that the testing be performed by a laboratory within the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States was to insure that the participants could be brought into court to testify. The principle of demanding that the laboratory be accredited is to insure that the testing is performed under standardized, regulated, controlled conditions.

IF the Dutch duo do not provide the "hand-on" testing, then they'll be evaluating the PA reports....and all the wonderful "stuff" that LKB will demand like bench notes, graphs, QC & proficiency testing runs. They also could be offered the opportunity to observe the testing protocols on site, perhaps a lovely way for them to discover how to get a "leg-up" on establishing the mountains of documents and SOP texts they'll be required to produce for their Denver laboratory.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Well, well.....seems like the infamous Dutch duo will have to apply for a "temporary position" to work in the PA lab unless the laboratory director offers them the opportunity to perform the testing CONCURRENTLY with the ACCREDITED laboratory staff using the APPROVED laboratory protocols!

The entire principle of demanding that the testing be performed by a laboratory within the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States was to insure that the participants could be brought into court to testify. The principle of demanding that the laboratory be accredited is to insure that the testing is performed under standardized, regulated, controlled conditions.

IF the Dutch duo do not provide the "hand-on" testing, then they'll be evaluating the PA reports....and all the wonderful "stuff" that LKB will demand like bench notes, graphs, QC & proficiency testing runs. They also could be offered the opportunity to observe the testing protocols on site, perhaps a lovely way for them to discover how to get a "leg-up" on establishing the mountains of documents and SOP texts they'll be required to produce for their Denver laboratory.

Thanks, joypath; I was so hoping that you would chime in here and help us understand better. You never disappoint . . . :blowkiss:

 

[Leila]

Mother Nature may have a little something to say about that.

Yes, I'd be surprised to learn that any DNA was found after Caylee's remains had been exposed to intense heat, rain, and submerged for several months. The only DNA they might find, is that left by wild animals, and even then that's very unlikely given the conditions.

 

[Numbers]

Well, well.....seems like the infamous Dutch duo will have to apply for a "temporary position" to work in the PA lab unless the laboratory director offers them the opportunity to perform the testing CONCURRENTLY with the ACCREDITED laboratory staff using the APPROVED laboratory protocols!

The entire principle of demanding that the testing be performed by a laboratory within the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States was to insure that the participants could be brought into court to testify. The principle of demanding that the laboratory be accredited is to insure that the testing is performed under standardized, regulated, controlled conditions.

IF the Dutch duo do not provide the "hand-on" testing, then they'll be evaluating the PA reports....and all the wonderful "stuff" that LKB will demand like bench notes, graphs, QC & proficiency testing runs. They also could be offered the opportunity to observe the testing protocols on site, perhaps a lovely way for them to discover how to get a "leg-up" on establishing the mountains of documents and SOP texts they'll be required to produce for their Denver laboratory.

However, this may require them to ~mingle~ with the lowlife degenerate "we like to shoot people" American commoners.

I can see where this may present a true dilemma for them. Fame - cooties - fame - cooties - fame - cooties. Decision, decisions......

 

[Leila]

OK, so I guess I have a dumb question then...

HHJP made the comment at yesterday's hearing that he was inclined to grant the defense's motion to have the evidence tested. However, he also stated he would not allow the testing to be done outside of the country.

HHJP ruled today that the testing will be done by National Medical Services in Willow Grove, PA, NOT by the E's in Holland, as the defense was requesting. If I understood JA's objection correctly, he did not object to the defense testing the evidence. He only objected to it not being done at an accredited lab and within the U.S.

So, HOW is this a WIN (as in granting the defense's motion) for the defense? Seems to me this is a win for the prosecution, as JA got exactly what he wanted.

Am I missing something here?

TIA!

Going with an accredited lab in the U.S. vs a lab outside the United States that is not accredited is a plus for prosecution.

What amazes me is that JB and the Anthonys call much of the forensic testing "junk science", yet JB was willing to send evidence to a lab that is not accredited and if that lab had found even the smallest particle of DNA from someone other than Casey, JB would be extolling the virtues of scientific testing.

 

[ynotdivein]

joypath, dangit, I am so glad you are here.

Got nothing to add except that. Thank you.

 

[chefmom]

However, this may require them to ~mingle~ with the lowlife degenerate "we like to shoot people" American commoners.

I can see where this may present a true dilemma for them. Fame - cooties - fame - cooties - fame - cooties. Decision, decisions......

LMAO! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Leila]

<snipped>

Ashton said he was concerned about the items leaving the country, where the prosecution would have no power to compel witnesses to testify. He also wanted to limit any damage to important pieces of evidence caused by transporting them great distances.

Ashton said he would not object to the items being tested at National Medical Services of Willow Grove, Pa. That facility is also acceptable to the defense team, according to its motion.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...casey-anthony-status-20100928,0,1617809.story

I must have mis-read the article. I took it to mean that the technicians at the National Medical Services of Willow Grove, PA would be doing the testing. But, I can see now that it could mean that the Eikelenbooms would be given use of that facility to conduct their tests.

 

[chefmom]

Well, well.....seems like the infamous Dutch duo will have to apply for a "temporary position" to work in the PA lab unless the laboratory director offers them the opportunity to perform the testing CONCURRENTLY with the ACCREDITED laboratory staff using the APPROVED laboratory protocols!

The entire principle of demanding that the testing be performed by a laboratory within the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States was to insure that the participants could be brought into court to testify. The principle of demanding that the laboratory be accredited is to insure that the testing is performed under standardized, regulated, controlled conditions.

IF the Dutch duo do not provide the "hand-on" testing, then they'll be evaluating the PA reports....and all the wonderful "stuff" that LKB will demand like bench notes, graphs, QC & proficiency testing runs. They also could be offered the opportunity to observe the testing protocols on site, perhaps a lovely way for them to discover how to get a "leg-up" on establishing the mountains of documents and SOP texts they'll be required to produce for their Denver laboratory.

So glad you popped in, Joypath! So, do you think the E's will do the actual testing or just assist or watch the techs at the PA lab? Also, would they be the ones testifying to anything found, or would the techs from the lab do it? Thanks!

 

[RR0004]

Well, well.....seems like the infamous Dutch duo will have to apply for a "temporary position" to work in the PA lab unless the laboratory director offers them the opportunity to perform the testing CONCURRENTLY with the ACCREDITED laboratory staff using the APPROVED laboratory protocols!

The entire principle of demanding that the testing be performed by a laboratory within the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States was to insure that the participants could be brought into court to testify. The principle of demanding that the laboratory be accredited is to insure that the testing is performed under standardized, regulated, controlled conditions.

IF the Dutch duo do not provide the "hand-on" testing, then they'll be evaluating the PA reports....and all the wonderful "stuff" that LKB will demand like bench notes, graphs, QC & proficiency testing runs. They also could be offered the opportunity to observe the testing protocols on site, perhaps a lovely way for them to discover how to get a "leg-up" on establishing the mountains of documents and SOP texts they'll be required to produce for their Denver laboratory.

Could they be extended the opportunity to work there as a courtesy? Are you of the opinion that they will be involved in the testing?
Thanks, joypath!!!!!!!!!

 

[RR0004]

So glad you popped in, Joypath! So, do you think the E's will do the actual testing or just assist or watch the techs at the PA lab? Also, would they be the ones testifying to anything found, or would the techs from the lab do it? Thanks!

You beat me to it!!



PS- Anyone find the site slow?

 

[ynotdivein]

You beat me to it!!

PS- Anyone find the site slow?

Totally... feel like JB must feel flipping thru docs.... looking for color coded sections under the watchful eye of HHJP... Eeeeep.

 

[strawberry]

I shouldn't have had that caffeine at lunch...I'm still awake. Anyway, this lab in Willow Grove seems much more scientific and well, less defense-oriented.

http://www.nmslab.com/about-overview/

Am curious about this place...Willow Grove is a military town with the Naval Air Station there until it closed a few years ago. My sister was in the reserves there for years. So no socialist innocence project atmosphere going down there.

 

[Turnadot]

I hope you guys don't mind a non-American chiming in on this, but I'm so confused by Baez wanting the E's so badly. It's not like America is some backwater without the labs and brilliant people to perform the touch DNA tests Baez wants. America, imo, doesn't need the E's to swoop in. I don't get it. Why does he want the Dutch?

 

[nums24]

I hope you guys don't mind a non-American chiming in on this, but I'm so confused by Baez wanting the E's so badly. It's not like America is some backwater without the labs and brilliant people to perform the touch DNA tests Baez wants. America, imo, doesn't need the E's to swoop in. I don't get it. Why does he want the Dutch?

They're free! JAC would pay for an in-state expert. The E's are probably doing this for the publicity, to pay for their desired acres and acres of real estate. In my opinion.:innocent: