The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[Mountain_Kat]

Thank you to PeterBrendt and MK for posting some good info about dates and seasons. I have compiled all the information about MB I could find...I started with her because I think this where the SK has revealed himself in a variety of forms. Something about the dates off all the victims, and the phone calls to the sister and bf are gnawing at me, stirring around in my head and I'm slowly grinding them out to try and find something. Anyway to me, for whatever reason (probably MB revealed personal info, more than the other victims) this is as much info as I have to go on in researching the SK...

-July 12, 2009- MB last seen
*Notes: MB apparently told BF Johnny Terry she might go to LI this night. Terry tells LE Melissa had a regular older client in LI and occasionally he drove her to his house, however this night she was very secretive about it.
*Notes: MB fails to show to meet a client in Jersey City
-July 12, 2009- MB voicemail pinged from Massepequa...eventually LE discerns two traces come from Budget Inn and Best Western hotel (exact dates not provided)
-A few days after July 12 - MB's sister recieves a call from MB's cell phone with a man on the phone and this begins a series of calls to MB's sister from her cell phone.
*Notes- Calls eventually traced to Midtown, locations searched include MSG, Port Authority, Penn St., and Times Square. Unknown person calling sister will only speak to her, hung up once when MB's mother answered. Continually taunts sister, calling MB a "*advertiser censored*" and sister a "halfbreed"
- 1 month after MB disappears (August 2009), Johnny Terry begins to receive calls from unknown person, asking about MB and describing his tattoos, JT describes him as older, white, and drunk half the time.
*Notes: MB had a tattoo of JT's nickname "Blaze" on her back. Calls last approx 8 months. Calls come from burner phones, registered to Mickey Mouse.
- August 29, 2009: Last call made to sister from MB's phone, describing how he had sex with her, then killed her. It is believed that calls ended when a news report surfaced of MB's sister receiving communication from SK.
- Notes: It is also known that throughout period of communication, MB's sister also recieved text messages from MB's phone...it is not known the context of the messages

Great summary, NJGuy. Just one point I'd like to correct, if I may. If the calls to MB's sister lasted approximately 8 months, then the date of the last phone call would have had to have been August 29, 2010. If that's the case, then that means that he was calling MB's sister AFTER he had killed Megan Waterman (June 6, 2010), and just days before he killed Amber Lynn Costello (Sept.2, 2010).

 

[NJGuy]

Sorry MK, from what I read the calls to Johnny Terry lasted 8 months, and the calls to the sister ended quickly. However after you pointed it out, I am inclined to think I erred when reading and jotting info. If anyone can verify this, I'd appreciate it. I also have a few more bits of info to post but I am running out and will post later

Thanks

 

[Redbird]

Sorry MK, from what I read the calls to Johnny Terry lasted 8 months, and the calls to the sister ended quickly. However after you pointed it out, I am inclined to think I erred when reading and jotting info. If anyone can verify this, I'd appreciate it. I also have a few more bits of info to post but I am running out and will post later

Thanks

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life.htm

Article says Melissa's sister Amanda began receiving calls from the SK eight days after Melissa's disappearance. The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone. Melissa's mother said they received five more calls, the last one on August 26, 2009. It also says her boyfriend Terry received more than 30 calls over a period of eight months.

Amanda also discusses the calls on the CBS 48 Hours special.

Many more details in Daily Beast article.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sorry MK, from what I read the calls to Johnny Terry lasted 8 months, and the calls to the sister ended quickly. However after you pointed it out, I am inclined to think I erred when reading and jotting info. If anyone can verify this, I'd appreciate it. I also have a few more bits of info to post but I am running out and will post later

Thanks

All of the articles I'm seeing state that MB's sister recieved the last call on Aug. 29, 2009.

Terry claims the calls to him went on for 8 months, so that would put the calls to him sometime around March or April of 2010. But, I'm not ready to bank on his credibility. So, I'm just going to go with the date of the calls being between July 9, 2009 and August 29, 2009...well before the deaths of MW and ALC.

 

[Redbird]

[URL="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/04/24/melissa-barthelemy-the-long-island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life

Hope this link will work. It's a good article about Melissa

 

[NJGuy]

All of the articles I'm seeing state that MB's sister recieved the last call on Aug. 29, 2009.

Terry claims the calls to him went on for 8 months, so that would put the calls to him sometime around March or April of 2010. But, I'm not ready to bank on his credibility. So, I'm just going to go with the date of the calls being between July 9, 2009 and August 29, 2009...well before the deaths of MW and ALC.

Agreed....his credibility rating is less than stellar, so I'm with you on hedging our bets and going with what is definitive. While I do think Terry did receive calls, I'm not sure whether I believe the total and frequency of those calls.

A few more bits of info:

-MB's mother began receiving calls at her workplace, from someone inquiring about her knowledge of the case. This occurred this past Spring, if I remember correctly. It is not known if this caller was the same person who called the sister, a journalist, a complete loon, etc..
-Sister received calls from MB's phone, while Terry received calls from burner phones, so potentially Terry was still receiving calls after August 29th, and when the SK probably dumped MB's phone.
-MB's phone was only turned on during use....such as the initial pings from the vmail checking, and when calling/texting the sister.

So using what we know, I am trying to create sort of a working routine/tracing footsteps of the SK...it's bothering me because I strongly feel this is how we really get to know him, to envision him (at least to me). There is something about these dates and times and locations that will reveal a lot, I'm just not there yet.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Cell phones

We know Maureen had her cell phone with her, because there were pings traced to LI.

We know Melissa had her cell phone with her.

We know that Megan met her last client at 1:30 am, and left her cell
phone behind in the hotel room.

We know that Amber Lynn Costello was convinced to leave her cell phone behind.

What I find interesting about this information is, apparently, sometime between Maureen & Melissa's disappearance and Megan & Amber's disappearance, our sk seems to have come to the conclusion that he needed to get the girls to leave their cell phones behind. So, I'm asking myself what might have prompted this decision, and then it occurs to me...Shannan Gilbert. IF Shannan Gilbert is a victim of our sk, her death would have occurred prior to the murders of Megan Waterman and Amber Lynn Costello, and after the murders of Maureen Barnes and Melissa Barthelemy. Shannan was able to use her cell phone to call 911, and alert police to an area where they might look for her. It very possibly also put heat on the person who did kill her, if he lived here or had previously dumped the bodies of MBB and MB here. Cell phones ping...can't have that. Live and learn.

 

[NJGuy]

MK,

Same thing I've been thinking for a while now as well...it's what has me still believing Shannan is connected, because without the cell phone coincidence, I would probably be thinking she is not connected. But that's what I'm holding to at this point. Anyway, I began thinking what are the only, known common elements in this case of the GB4 (Shannan included) There has been so much speculation, innuendo, rumor and information out there, it has gotten muddled. So I listed the only documented commonalities among them:

1. Location of bodies in Gilgo Beach (minus Shannan)
2. the 4 wrapped in burlap
3. All known prostitutes
4. The use of cell phones and/or lack thereof at client's request
5. All went missing between the months of May-September
There are a few other consistencies that may or may not be pertinent, but for my purposes of researching, I am focusing on these. Hence my gravitation to analyzing and researching the dates, times, cell phone usage/cell phones being left behind.
Leads me to this:
1.July 2007: first victim he hired as a prostitute (location unknown), had sex with her and killed her.
2.July 2009: MB is 2 years later, somehow becomes intimate with her, she shares details of her life or he forces them out of her (either way, he gains details of her life) gets the idea of keeping her cell to further expand his role of power and control to taunt sister and boyfriend. Enjoys this aspect of his crimes. MB's phone and probably SK were in Massepequa and at stated hotels at some point. MB's phone and probably Sk are also in Manhattan at points. Becomes concerned when news reports hit of the taunting calls from MB's phone. Dumps MB's phone and picks up throwaways, calls bf over a period of time (if we believe the bf)
3. May 2010: Shannan: If she fits with the GB4, this is where. Somehow SG is in Oak Beach at Brewer's. Something bad happens, and she calls 911 from her cell. She runs out of the house etc. never found. Police eventually arrive, SK (whoever it is) realizes how close he came to being caught, understands his first real mistake, despite the fact he enjoyed the cell phone taunts. Can't have girls with their phones any longer.
4. Next victim is soon after SG. Cannot have girls with their phones, he creates a situation where MW leaves her hotel alone, without her phone, and begins walking away from hotel. Probably knowing this particular hotel's camera placements, he meets her with his car at a different location.
5. September 2010: Last victim is also fairly soon after MW. Again, spends time calling and chatting with ALC and gains enough trust to have her leave her cell. He will pick her up at her house, however, she too must walk a bit before meeting. He won't take the chance of being seen at her house.

Next question for me is what happened in 2008? Only a few plausible scenarios work for me; A) took a voluntary break, B) killed elsewhere, C) Something made him stop; jail, injury, family, job etc. I think 2008 is a critical year in determining who he is.

Sorry for the length, but have been pondering all this and then some for a bit. Still working it all out to try and make some sense of it

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Again, great summary, NJGuy. I would just add a major commonality between the GB4 that you missed, though...all 4 died of strangulation/asphixiation.

As for the 2008 gap, I can only speculate along the same lines you've already speculated.

 

[truthspider]

Again, great summary, NJGuy. I would just add a major commonality between the GB4 that you missed, though...all 4 died of strangulation/asphixiation.

As for the 2008 gap, I can only speculate along the same lines you've already speculated.

Tanya Rush was found dismembered, stuffed in a suitcase and throw on the side of the southern state at exit 25 south, one exit before wantagh pkway would take you back to oak beach.

also, doesn't the window of death for the asian male include 2008?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Tanya Rush was found dismembered, stuffed in a suitcase and throw on the side of the southern state at exit 25 south, one exit before wantagh pkway would take you back to oak beach.

also, doesn't the window of death for the asian male include 2008?

I can't answer that in this thread. :crazy:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Tonight it occured to me that there are POI's that I never thoroughly sleuthed due to my obsession with CPH. If I remove SG from the big picture, there's nothing that connects either CPH or JB to the GB4. And while I do believe SG could be connected, I need to stop assuming that she is. So today, I'm going to go back and see what I can dig up on other possible POI's...starting with this guy:

http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/manhattan/nypd-officer-last-contact-murder-victim-sources-say

ETA: my computer died a few months back, and all my maps are stuck in that hard drive. I was going to create another map for the location of all the bodies found on Ocean Parkway (including the new info we have), but if someone else has already done that, it would save me a ton of time if they could post that. (Nutzger? I know you have one! LOL!)

 

[21merc7]

When you remove CPH and JB, as far as I know, the only connection between the girls that we are aware of is escort service. That leaves us with crazy sk john, or job clean up thugs. Do we know of anyone that ties the girls together in anyway? Did they ever use the same "pimp" or "boyfriend"? Was there a big angry girlfriend anywhere?

 

[nugzter]

Tonight it occured to me that there are POI's that I never thoroughly sleuthed due to my obsession with CPH. If I remove SG from the big picture, there's nothing that connects either CPH or JB to the GB4. And while I do believe SG could be connected, I need to stop assuming that she is. So today, I'm going to go back and see what I can dig up on other possible POI's...starting with this guy:

http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/manhattan/nypd-officer-last-contact-murder-victim-sources-say

ETA: my computer died a few months back, and all my maps are stuck in that hard drive. I was going to create another map for the location of all the bodies found on Ocean Parkway (including the new info we have), but if someone else has already done that, it would save me a ton of time if they could post that. (Nutzger? I know you have one! LOL!)

This is the one I have been using on my evidence board at home.
This is in the maps section.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

 

[Mountain_Kat]

When you remove CPH and JB, as far as I know, the only connection between the girls that we are aware of is escort service. That leaves us with crazy sk john, or job clean up thugs. Do we know of anyone that ties the girls together in anyway?

For some time now, I've been stuck on the idea that it isn't so much Craigslist that links these girls to our killer, but Backpage or Utopia Guide. But I don't want to say more about that on a public forum, for reasons I won't get into.

One thing I was looking at early on was the strip clubs. Cherri Bombs, Cafe Royale, LI Cafe, Billy Deans...all are in a cluster, and all fall within what I believe is a loop our sk frequently travels. These aren't your average peep show strip clubs...you can get "full service" there if you know how to go about it (from what I've heard). I'd bet my last dollar that our sk knows these establishments well. Now, we know that Melissa had at one time been a dancer, and according to her "boyfriend" she'd become chummy with some older gentleman on LI and visited him frequently. So, where did she meet this guy? Library? I don't think so. One of these strip clubs is a definite possibility, imo.

Coincidentally, Amber was the only victim who lived locally, and look at how close she lived to this cluster of strip clubs.

I'm also curious about the girl's arrest records, and wonder if there is any commonalities there, but so far, I don't have much info on that.

That's all I got.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This is the one I have been using on my evidence board at home.
This is in the maps section.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

What do we know about the 2 found closest to Jones Beach? Is the skull found at JFK Memorial Sanctuary a match for the legs that washed up in Davis Park?

(It's driving me crazy trying to keep all these strewn remains straight in my mind!)

 

[truthspider]

What do we know about the 2 found closest to Jones Beach? Is the skull found at JFK Memorial Sanctuary a match for the legs that washed up in Davis Park?

Yes, an easy way to remember this is back when they first found the skull they hinted that it was the oldest remains found, and were unsure if it was related because it had clearly been there for a long time. I think they mentioned roots of a tree growing through or around the skull that led them to believe this.

We now know that the victim died in 1995.

 

[NJGuy]

For some time now, I've been stuck on the idea that it isn't so much Craigslist that links these girls to our killer, but Backpage or Utopia Guide. But I don't want to say more about that on a public forum, for reasons I won't get into.

One thing I was looking at early on was the strip clubs. Cherri Bombs, Cafe Royale, LI Cafe, Billy Deans...all are in a cluster, and all fall within what I believe is a loop our sk frequently travels. These aren't your average peep show strip clubs...you can get "full service" there if you know how to go about it (from what I've heard). I'd bet my last dollar that our sk knows these establishments well. Now, we know that Melissa had at one time been a dancer, and according to her "boyfriend" she'd become chummy with some older gentleman on LI and visited him frequently. So, where did she meet this guy? Library? I don't think so. One of these strip clubs is a definite possibility, imo.

Coincidentally, Amber was the only victim who lived locally, and look at how close she lived to this cluster of strip clubs.

I'm also curious about the girl's arrest records, and wonder if there is any commonalities there, but so far, I don't have much info on that.

That's all I got.

I am on board with the possible strip club angle, I don't know if any girls had worked at a strip club in LI, Manhattan, or NJ, but I think it's an avenue worth getting into...at the very least, I'll bet my last dollar the SK frequents the clubs. As for craigslist, I also agree I'm not sure whether it was craigslist or one of the other escort sites where he hired these girls from. The one problem with researching if these girls all worked for the same service or pimp is that these escort services get busted all the time, and move to another apartment, change names and are back in business. Girls also work for a service, leave, come back, go to another service etc. So it's conceivable we could just going in circles trying to figure who worked where and what agency is what...for instance, James Bond Entertainment probably was 7 other names that were still operated by the same people

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I am on board with the possible strip club angle, I don't know if any girls had worked at a strip club in LI, Manhattan, or NJ, but I think it's an avenue worth getting into...at the very least, I'll bet my last dollar the SK frequents the clubs. As for craigslist, I also agree I'm not sure whether it was craigslist or one of the other escort sites where he hired these girls from. The one problem with researching if these girls all worked for the same service or pimp is that these escort services get busted all the time, and move to another apartment, change names and are back in business. Girls also work for a service, leave, come back, go to another service etc. So it's conceivable we could just going in circles trying to figure who worked where and what agency is what...for instance, James Bond Entertainment probably was 7 other names that were still operated by the same people

Yep. Probably the same story with Lace Party Girls.

Maybe later tonight I'll try to go through those early threads where we figured out the GB4's working names and tracked down their ads. I'm curious to see just how common it was for these girls to advertize on Back Page and Utopia Guide. Maybe that's the common denominator.

 

[PickleChris]

For some time now, I've been stuck on the idea that it isn't so much Craigslist that links these girls to our killer, but Backpage or Utopia Guide. But I don't want to say more about that on a public forum, for reasons I won't get into.

One thing I was looking at early on was the strip clubs. Cherri Bombs, Cafe Royale, LI Cafe, Billy Deans...all are in a cluster, and all fall within what I believe is a loop our sk frequently travels. These aren't your average peep show strip clubs...you can get "full service" there if you know how to go about it (from what I've heard). I'd bet my last dollar that our sk knows these establishments well. Now, we know that Melissa had at one time been a dancer, and according to her "boyfriend" she'd become chummy with some older gentleman on LI and visited him frequently. So, where did she meet this guy? Library? I don't think so. One of these strip clubs is a definite possibility, imo.

Coincidentally, Amber was the only victim who lived locally, and look at how close she lived to this cluster of strip clubs.

I'm also curious about the girl's arrest records, and wonder if there is any commonalities there, but so far, I don't have much info on that.

That's all I got.

I like the path you are going .......but.....You actually picked the 'nicer' ones in the area.

There are a bunch of real shady placed in the industrial parks of Western Suffolk County. I hear a lot of messed up stories about these places, basically that 95% of the girls that work there will be prostitutes as well. This is what I've heard, not saying its fact. I would imagine employees of those places might have some decent information on this case.