The red rose - revisited

[Concerned Papa]

I can't get the map to post so here is the goggle address so you can see the area searched in the rose search. It would be Hunter Rd-Monroe Alley-Green Lane-Seven Sisters Rd. The entire wooded area in between the roads all the way to the river.
Hope this helps. If someone can post the picture of area please do.
ThanksGL

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=green+lane,+satsuma,+fl.&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.423305,76.904297&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Green+Ln,+Satsuma,+Putnam,+Florida+32189&ll=29.573158,-81.67305&spn=0.003667,0.009388&t=h&z=17>

If I understand you correctly, this would be the area you described for the search:

 

[Whisperer]

I am one who truly believes that the rose stood for something and could very well be placed on top of Haleigh's buried body.

chesterp, can you tell us a little bit about the area the rose was found in? Is it past the railroad tracks from the mh on Green ln?

It's weird how the rose looks like it was found past the railroad tracks (info provided by Misty), there was a sighting of a red truck sitting near the railroad tracks that night (who all has access to a red vehicle?), and the dogs lost Haleigh's scent at the railroad tracks. WEIRD......But important if you ask me.

GMA Sykes owns a red crew pick up. We saw TN driving that or one just like it when she was with Cobra. It was said by Misty that her father had a red pick up which tommy drove. Do not know when it was sold. RC gets to use GMA's red truck whenever he wants, and according to our fellow poster, he uses it often (or used to till he bought his new white truck at the time of the wedding).

 

[GRANNYL]

If I understand you correctly, this would be the area you described for the search:

Yes thanks so much. I could not remember how to post the map. LOL!
GL:blushing:

Also for suspicious1 the rose was found in this area/

 

[Concerned Papa]

IMO, this &#8220;red rose&#8221; fable is simply more of Misty Croslin&#8217;s lies intended to misdirect.

&#8220;She said there was a place that was not searched very well and that we should look for a red rose, and she gave us the location,&#8221;

Not searched very well? Are you kidding me?

This long narrow strip of land is only 11-12 acres in size, and according to GrannyL the search on September 29th was not the first, not the second, but the THIRD time Texas Equisearch had poured over this piece of ground. Twenty two trained searchers AND twelve members of LE searched this land AGAIN thanks to information from the same 17 year old who said Haleigh was wearing pajamas and a self closing door was standing WIDE OPEN!

GrannyL said LE determines the area to search. Why does it seem to take dead horse bones, plastic flowers, and scrubs tips to decide which area is searched?

In the meantime, the St Johns river still flows by the undisturbed woods at the PDM plant where we know RC was at for some period of time that night.

Amazing.....

 

[Whisperer]

Misty's lies, yes, but rc directed them to the rose...go figure!

I would think they would search all the areas around the PDM site, Papa. I also would want them to search around the last place rc was seen. Was it verified he was at the kangaroo at 2:30?

 

[debs]

Misty's lies, yes, but rc directed them to the rose...go figure!

I would think they would search all the areas around the PDM site, Papa. I also would want them to search around the last place rc was seen. Was it verified he was at the kangaroo at 2:30?

That's right.....didn't Ron accompany TM to the rose?

 

[Whisperer]

Rc directed them from what I recall, Debs.

 

[News Junkie]

I knew where the ROSE was and I went to where the ROSE was....

it was near SS's rabbit

Chesterp, Please explain, what do you mean it was near SS's rabbit, who or what is SS?

 

[suspicious1]

I thought someone on here posted a map of where the rose was found and it looked like it was on the other side of the railroad tracks?

Whisperer, you mean to tell me Ron directed them to the rose and not Misty?

 

[Baznme]

Baznme you know I usually agree with you 100% but this time I must take exception on several points. I will snip portions of your post and answer.
Please don't take offense to anything I say just wanted to clear up not only what you said but several others in their post. I know the area of the rose and well were searched completely many times. I don't think she is in that area because of the searches but once the underbrush dies back we may be able to do more. I will gladly go back and search if TM feels it is needed.

Also someone posted the pictures of cars parked at the recreation area, that means nothing it was just a staging area and we were taken to the search area next to the mobile home and left our vehicles there.

Hope this clears up some questions people have about the seriousness of the Haleigh search. Trust me it was a good search! By the way we were not told where in this area the rose was found.

Happy New Year
GrannyL

Then again.....it could be a good thing. There should be protocol followed that entails LE and the search teams working "together" so that one hand knows what the other is doing especially in a case where foul play is suspected.
On the search in the area the rose was found there was a select group of trained searchers approximately 22 (myself included). We had approximantly 12 LE officers with us every step of the way. They walked behind us and reviewed every little piece of anything we found. They had a Crime scene tech on site who reviewed everything. The area was very dense for the most part but very well searched. This was the third or more times TM group had searched the area. I personally know someone who searched the exact area on his on five or six times and he feels certain it's been covered as best it can be.

What areas were searched, It was the area between Green Lane, behind homes on Tyler and Seven Sisters Rd from next to R/R can't remember the road name down to the river. Same area as the well
what the terrain conditions were on that day, how much terrain was "able" to be covered and all signed off by LE as their personnel should accompany each team that goes out, As stated above the terrain was terrible in some areas and easier in others but all areas were searched and signed off by the Detective assigned to Haleighs case and the Sgt assigned they were both there all day with us.

andnot all standing around kibittzing about their training, their gf's or locker room talk. I never saw any if this happening we were way to busy, very hot for them to have time to be "kibittzing".

Also, with each LE Dept., it should be clear that the search organizations that are brought in should not be dictated to as to where they can search and where they can't. Not sure exactly what you are saying here but will answer anyway. LE does determine the areas to search. TM makes his suggestions based on many years of experience and usually LE know he knows what he is doing.

If anything, it should be policed as to WHO searches. As I said we were a select group brought in that day to search. It was not an open call for volunteers.

These weekend warrior people are doing nothing but trudging through terrain that potentially has all the clues but without the proper background info of the case likely are doing more harm than good......this is IMO. This really bothers me a lot. When I met you we were on a search together on the same team and I was the team leader and really didn't know what I was doing except following directions I was given. My first search. We were all doing the best we could back then. It was the first time TM group was in Florida.They had thousands of volunteer searchers so we were not well organized for sure. That has changed!! The group is now a very well trained group with a number of searches under our belts, sad to say. Our training is on going we can always learn. We don't just go into the woods on "real" searches we do mock searchs for training and believe me they are just like the real thing.

The pro's that have been doing this for years and nothing but this for years have the stats according to their own experiences as to how, where and when to search for a more likely successful find. It should be a joint effort. I agree and can honestly say our group is much better qualified than most LE. I consider TM a Pro. I have learned so much since that first day in Orlando and shudder thinking about some of the things we did wrong. I can assure you you will see few errors now when we have the core group searching. I think even when we have hundred or thousands of volunteers our Team Leaders now know exactly what to do if not they will ask questions and find out and direct their teams accordingly. I do know if there is a special area(s) of concern no one is allowed to search in those areas unless they are well trained, usually team leaders only.

I would like to add that the vegetation in Florida is still quite thick although beginning to die back due to the cold spells. When in full bloom, you cannot see a thing in the underbrush. So true it is terrible in some areas like Satsuma. We did not have the same kind of undergrowth in the Somer search in Orange Park just 54 miles north.[/

Sorry this is so long!QUOTE]

Granny, I was afraid that you would take offense to my post because I couldn't go into quite as much detail as I wanted to. I was in no way directing the points I made at the group (our group), TM's group, etc. I was talking about some of the ones that broke away from our group that went out on their own and formed their own little group. As far as referencing the protocol, I am only saying that compared to the search for Caylee, those details, if left out and not documented, may become a problem for the organization and/or the potential searchers in the future. That has yet to be seen.

As far as the kibitzing, yep, when I was up there in Satsume, that's what I witnessed. No kidding. It sounds as though things have changed and I sincerely hope so but then again, there were LE there from five different counties so Lord knows where they were from. I was not the only one that noticed.

I appreciate all your details in your group searches but it was not necessary to explain that to me. I know how much work it is to do a search. Sorry if it upset you but it was not meant to nor was it directed at any of the TE group/s.

 

[suspicious1]

If I understand you correctly, this would be the area you described for the search:

I am confused now. On one map the rose looks to have been found across the railroad tracks. So where in this photo was the rose found? It looks different on the other map.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I am confused now. On one map the rose looks to have been found across the railroad tracks. So where in this photo was the rose found? It looks different on the other map.

Apparently none of us know where this rose was found. The map above is where GrannyL, who was involved with the search, said the area searched was located.

If by "across the railroad tracks" you are referring to the map I posted this morning showing the Murphy's Creek area, GrannyL has explained that was simply a staging area for their vehicles. Along with First Coast News, I thought that was the search area, but our member has corrected that.

 

[GRANNYL]

No offense taken I know you understand searching. I probably went into to much detail myself but from reading other post I could see the true picture was not there and I wanted other WS to understand. Really used your post as a jumping off point, sorry about that![/I]

I was talking about some of the ones that broke away from our group that went out on their own and formed their own little group. As far as referencing the protocol, I am only saying that compared to the search for Caylee, those details, if left out and not documented, may become a problem for the organization and/or the potential searchers in the future. That has yet to be seen. I agree with you completelyAs far as the kibitzing, yep, when I was up there in Satsume, that's what I witnessed. No kidding. Not surprised/

It sounds as though things have changed and I sincerely hope so but then again, there were LE there from five different counties so Lord knows where they were from. I was not the only one that noticed. Maybe it was because we worked their you know what off they didn't have time for kibitzing! LOL! And it was so hot an muggy that day

I appreciate all your details in your group searches but it was not necessary to explain that to me. I know how much work it is to do a search. Sorry if it upset you but it was not meant to nor was it directed at any of the TE group/s. I know it wasn't necessary for you but others who have not been searching with us hopefully now have a better idea of what goes on. I know it is very hard to just sit and wait we all want the person arrested and justice served. The same here with little Somer, she at least was found but we still have a child killer running around just a few miles from my home. Again I'm not upset with you and hope you aren't with me. I'll go back to just reading now as I always do. I very seldom post as you know but that doesn't mean I don't want to!! LOL! Thanks for answering me.

 

[GRANNYL]

I am confused now. On one map the rose looks to have been found across the railroad tracks. So where in this photo was the rose found? It looks different on the other map.

Somewhere within the yellow lines. Where it says SEARCH. We were not told exactly where in this area just that it was this area. It was not across the R/R tracks.

 

[suspicious1]

Apparently none of us know where this rose was found. The map above is where GrannyL, who was involved with the search, said the area searched was located.

If by "across the railroad tracks" you are referring to the map I posted this morning showing the Murphy's Creek area, GrannyL has explained that was simply a staging area for their vehicles. Along with First Coast News, I thought that was the search area, but our member has corrected that.

I wish we knew the exact location of the rose. That area in yellow that was supposedly searched, imo, should've expanded a little farther, particularly near and across the railroad tracks.

 

[GRANNYL]

I wish we knew the exact location of the rose. That area in yellow that was supposedly searched, imo, should've expanded a little farther, particularly near and across the railroad tracks.

Those areas have been searched. The area is so thick with undergrowth you cannot see across or under the Palmettos some are 30-40 feet wide and we had to use marchates to cut our way in most of the area. I'm not kidding you could not see a foot in front of you most of the time. We searched arm to arm and it was so hard to get into and around the palmettos and all the tarzan vines. You really have had to be there to understand the area it's awful! We have finally had some cold weather the last few days, it actually got down to freezing last night where I live 54 miles north of the mobile home. We are supposed to have freezing weather for the next week so hopefully the undergrowth will start to die out soon. But then it will warm up and start growing again. To tell you what the weather is like I wore knee length shorts Christmas day.

When you look at the map CPapa put up for me look at how thick the green areas are and multiply that by a thousand and you will have an idea how thick it is on the ground. Searching is almost impossible.

Also you said "That area in yellow that was supposedly searched" should read "That area that was definitely searched" no suppose about it. Searched many times.

Hope this helps.

 

[Baznme]

Those areas have been searched. The area is so thick with undergrowth you cannot see across or under the Palmettos some are 30-40 feet wide and we had to use marchates to cut our way in most of the area. I'm not kidding you could not see a foot in front of you most of the time. We searched arm to arm and it was so hard to get into and around the palmettos and all the tarzan vines. You really have had to be there to understand the area it's awful! We have finally had some cold weather the last few days, it actually got down to freezing last night where I live 54 miles north of the mobile home. We are supposed to have freezing weather for the next week so hopefully the undergrowth will start to die out soon. But then it will warm up and start growing again. To tell you what the weather is like I wore knee length shorts Christmas day.

When you look at the map PPapa put up for me look at how thick the green areas are and multiply that by a thousand and you will have an idea how thick it is on the ground. Searching is almost impossible.

Hope this helps.

Amen GrannyL. Please keep us posted.

 

[chesterp]

Those areas have been searched. The area is so thick with undergrowth you cannot see across or under the Palmettos some are 30-40 feet wide and we had to use marchates to cut our way in most of the area. I'm not kidding you could not see a foot in front of you most of the time. We searched arm to arm and it was so hard to get into and around the palmettos and all the tarzan vines. You really have had to be there to understand the area it's awful! We have finally had some cold weather the last few days, it actually got down to freezing last night where I live 54 miles north of the mobile home. We are supposed to have freezing weather for the next week so hopefully the undergrowth will start to die out soon. But then it will warm up and start growing again. To tell you what the weather is like I wore knee length shorts Christmas day.

When you look at the map CPapa put up for me look at how thick the green areas are and multiply that by a thousand and you will have an idea how thick it is on the ground. Searching is almost impossible.

Also you said "That area in yellow that was supposedly searched" should read "That area that was definitely searched" no suppose about it. Searched many times.

Hope this helps.

Every INCH was search with LE, private searchers....over and over and over and over......and YES a RABBIT was seen in that area that matched a dream posted just like the ROSE.

 

[bessie]

Thank you so much for providing the maps, Concerned Papa. As always, they are tremendously helpful. And many, many thanks to Baz and GrannyL for the information on the searches.

 

[atherella]

Misty's lies, yes, but rc directed them to the rose...go figure!

*snipped*


Misty gave them the directions not Ron. Ron only drove following Misty's directions.

She then gave us specific directions and said “look in the forest for a single red rose.” Ronald drove us to the location she described and when we entered into the woods as directed.

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/does-a-rose-hold-the-clue-to-where-haleigh-is/