Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

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gitana1 said:
I read the defense memo. Unlike the majority, I do not see this man as a "misguided" hero, although his actions did lead to evidence being generated. Why?

1. What 31 year old converses online with a minor child? I have a major problem with that. They had multiple conversations. Clearly she had developed a trust or friendship with this 31 year old adult in order to get to the point she was willing to reveal abuse to him and beg him for help. What adult man is having such indepth conversations with a minor child on the internet?

2. Yes. He suggested a couple other options in the conversation the defense laid out. But he didn't press those extremely viable options. Like going to the hospital to get a rape kit. He didn't urge her to do so and reassure her that with her word and her rapists' DNA inside her, she'd be rescued by police. To me, he suggested them as other options but he didn't seem serious about those options. He didn't cycle back to them. When she begged for help he didn't continually tell her she'd be safe with those options. What he really pressed was video evidence. He really wanted that video.

3. There was audio that, when coupled with her own words, would've been quite enough for her to go to the police and be rescued. He continued to insist on VIDEO.

4. After receiving the video, he didn't simply call the authorities. "Hey, this child sent me this video of her being raped." He didn't immediately call 911. He told her he wouldn't be in trouble for picking her up if she made a video with evidence. And once she made it, he picked her up. However, that shows he believed it was viable evidence. And it shows he believed that the presence of the video would protect him from legal trouble. In other words, he didn't know asking her to make it would be illegal if he could show he was doing it to help get evidence. So he had no reason not to call 911 immediately and give them what he had gotten her to produce.

5. After receiving the video, he picked her up and took her out of state. He has ZERO reason not to drive her to a local LE department immediately, with the video. Instead, he took her across state lines.

6. He waited over 10 days to send the evidence to LE while harboring this minor in his mother's basement. Why?

7. What's this about him saying the video was too blurry?

I find his actions quite suspect. I don't think he deserves a medal for not sexually assaulting her for the days he had her. He could've been quite happy with just the video e got her to generate. He could've been working up to further exploitation.

If he was an 18 or 19 year old young man his actions might be more excusable to me because they're still at that age when there's this magical divide between adults and kids. Where adults and authorities aren't totally trusted.

But this is a 31 year old man conversing with a minor child online for a lengthy time period and insisting she generate child *advertiser censored* before he can help her.

The reaction here and the fact that he appears not to have assaulted her makes me believe he might indeed prevail in mitigating the charge. But I believe the charge was and is viable and necessary.

Just think of the sordid avenues we would be opening up to child sexual exploitation if a defense to encouraging a child to video and send an adult a recording of herself being assaulted, would be viable, under the auspicies of trying to "gather evidence".

I believe the charge is merited.

Finally, I think @MsFacetious mentioned a kidnapping charge would probably be dropped against BR. I didn't see any kidnapping charge. Only one charge - child exploitation. Am I wrong?
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gitana1 said:
He wasn't just talking to her about the games. He knew she was underage and talked indepth with her about her personal life. A 31 year old man with a 14 year old kid. It's inappropriate.

I don't believe he's a hero. He seems to be emotionally manipulating a child to get a video of her being harmed. Yes, after her pressured her over and over to get a video and she kept saying she couldn't do it, he finally discussed some other some
options. But it was far from "constantly". And tellingly, he mentioned the police only one time in all that time.

How is it remotely reasonable that a 31 year old adult continually encourages a minor child to be raped on video and send it to him, mentions "running away to a friend's" a few times only AFTER she brought it up first, but only once mentions going to the police for help and never mentions talking to a trusted adult? How is it remotely reasonable that this man doesn't immediately call the police himself, nor calls them at all, ever?

And while he pressures her to get a video, assuring her that that's the way she can be rescued, "foolproof leverage" he's a bit dismissive when he replies to her statement that she will run away, "Run to a friends house and [/i]hope for the best":

This is the defense's best evidence:

12-27-18 Pressing hard and saying he won't help her without video evidence. No mention at all of any other way to get help. Convinced her she will be returned to her abuser without video evidence:

December 27, 2018
Bryan: I didn’t hang up the call got dropped
 And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either

Bryan: But we need clear video evidence
KV: Bryan do u understand how hard that would be though
Bryan: yes
 But understand that I can get in a hell of a lot of trouble for harboring you Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him if we get caught
KV: I understand bryan I guess
 As far as needing the evidence goes and u getting in trouble
Bryan: ok
KV: I just can’t promise I’ll get the evidence...
Bryan: Then I can’t promise I can get you away from that 
I hate to say it but I can’t risk getting trouble for you. If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad and I’ll be in trouble
KV: ...I’lltrytogetit

1-4-19 Seems upset she didn't get video evidence. After she says she couldn't do it he says, "There has to be some [effing] way." Goes on to pressure her about getting video. "He's going to rape you anyhow anyhow." Pushes super hard to get video.

Bryan: Just out of curiosity why can’t you just stay in your room and wait for him to get you?
He’s going to rape you anyway, might as well have the phone recording

KV: Bryan I can’t stand it I’ll have a ******* mental breakdown... idfk how

Bryan: ok

KV: There has to be a way
I can’t just stay here bryan I’m begging u plz

Bryan: There is. Be in your room when he comes home and have the phone recording. That way when he comes for you it’s already recording and you don’t have to worry about anything

Bryan: And I can’t help you if we don’t have foolproof leverage against your dad He’s been molesting you for 12 years, KV. If that’ not enough of a reason to get the video then idk what else to tell you

KV: Bryan ur such a ******* ******* if u don’t help me somehow I might as well kill my ******* self like I’ve been planning to do
I can’t get the video I just can’t

Bryan: So I’m an ******* for not risking going to prison for someone I haven’t even met?

KV: IDFK ANYMORE! But u can’t just leave me here!
If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either
 Idfk what to do anymore
Bryan: “And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either”
KV: If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either
Idfk what to do
Bryan: Good. Run away to a friends house

KV: Damn u bryan


Bryan: At least they can’t be charged with kidnaping if you go to them

KV: I’ll just kill myself

Bryan: Just do not kill yourself
 KV if you know someone else you can run away to, do that instead
 Show them the recording you got earlier. That at least will give them reason to hide you

KV: Bryan plz don’t leave me like this...
My friends will eventually rat me out to the cops

Bryan: And I think some of the laws are messed up too but my opinion isn’t going to matter if they come looking for you and we get caught
Run to a friends house and hope for the best

KV: That’s all the ******* advice u have for me

Bryan: That’s all I can offer
 If I knew something else I would tell you

KV: I’m just gonna kill myself Bryan: so don’t let him take you anywhere
 KV if you’re just going to kill yourself you might as well try running away to a friends house
 you have nothing to lose
Bryan: Then I guess your only option is to run away and show the people you run to the recording and tell them he’s sexually abusing you
KV: So what’s happens between us now bryan
Bryan: Then go to a hospital and get a rape kit
KV hell you could just go to the police after he rapes you and get a rape kit done on you
It’s only a few miles to town
Bryan: Then they will have DNA evidence that he raped you and since you’re a minor it won’t matter if he forced himself on you or not

Bryan: Between the rape charged and having all those guns as a s convicted felon he will be put away for a long f ing time

He mentions having her go to the police - Once.
Going to the hospital for a rape kit - Once.
Running away to a friend's - four times. And ONLY after she suggests it first.
Getting video evidence - six times. "I don't exactly want to see your dad rape you either."

His language is suggestive to me. He seems manipulative and intent on a video.

I am a bit baffled by the insistence that a very adult man who engaged in much more than gaming convos, online, with a minor child, and NEVER calls the police for help, but repeatedly insists the only way he can help is if she records herself getting raped and send it to him, is "a good Samaritan."

I don't see that.

He had so many legitimate ways to help this baby that didn't involve encouraging her to get raped on camera, send it to him and then go pick her up and transport her across state lines to his home.

Child abuse hotline.
911.
"Tell a trusted adult."
Pick her up but take her straight to the police.
Send the video himself to the police anonymously, without picking her up.

Instead, he flatly lies to her and manipulates her to believe she will be returned to him "hope for the best" unless she gets video: "Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him"

"If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad".

That's b.s.

I feel it's in error to scold those of us who are in agreement with the fed's charges, for being the reason there aren't more people who step up to help others.

He could've helped her in so many legitimate ways that didn't involve sending him child *advertiser censored* and then transporting her across state lines where he hid her and lied to the police about her whereabouts.

Oh and anyone who thinks these two weren't avidly reading the news about this case and somehow missed that the dad was arrested for rape, thus he lied about her being there when the cops came to call, should probably think twice.

My two cents.
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gitana1 said:
Except the defense presented their best evidence in that memorandum. And it's the complete reverse. He tried hard to convince her that the ONLY way she could escape and not be sent back is if she recorded herself being raped and sent it to him.

It was not until after she continually said she could not bring herself to do it and would kill herself or run away if he didn't help her, that he then reluctantly (IMO) said, "well then run to a friend's house. Hope for the best." Etc.

There is zero excuse for not immediately calling the police and asking for help for this child. IMO it's utter nonsense. She didn't need to produce child *advertiser censored* for him and be transported across state lines by a fully grown man she met online, in order to be rescued.

He had their entire damn conversation where she described the abuse, in writing.

One call.
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gitana1 said:
That struck me too. Because she's begging him for help. And he keeps insisting that the ONLY surefire way for her to be rescued and not returned to her dad is by recording it and sending it to him.

Here is how many times she begs him to help her without having her record her own rape and send it to him:

ONE: She pleads, "Bryan do u understand how hard that would be though" But he is unmoved by her anguish, "Yes But understand that I can get in a hell of a lot of trouble for harboring you Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him if we get caught."

TWO: She again tries to get help without recording her own rape, "I just can’t promise I’ll get the evidence". He remains unmoved by how horrified she is by what he is suggesting, "Then I can’t promise I can get you away from that I hate to say it but I can’t risk getting trouble for you. If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad and I’ll be in trouble"

THREE: Again, she pleads, "I don’t have the mental strength or confidence enough to get the video… I’m so sorry Bryan." Here she is actually apologizing to HIM for not doing what he is coercing her to do. Fits a predator victim/pattern to me. He is harsh in his response to this terrified and anguished child. Instead of offering other options, any other option, his reply? "Then I can’t come get you I’m sorry but I cannot risk prison time for you".

FOUR: She pleads again, "Bryan plz There has to be some [redacted] way". I mean here I really see a child just begging an adult to do the right thing and not force her to get raped on camera. "There has to be some way" and there IS some other way.

But no. His response is cold and sinister. His nonchalance about what this child faces in getting him the "evidence" he craves is disturbing, "Just out of curiosity why can’t you just stay in your room and wait for him to get you? He’s going to rape you anyway, might as well have the phone recording". WTH? What kind of adult responds to a terrified child in this manner? A pleading child:

"There has to be some way."
"Just wait for him to get you. He's going to rape you anyway, might as well record it."

Wow. The utter disregard for what this baby is going through and goes through at the hands of her father, is stunning. He is supposed to be this knight in shining armor? Some misguided hero? A well meaning but stupid person trying to "do the right thing"?

And yet this is how he responds to her pleas for help. To her desperation and helpless horror about subjecting herself to having her rape recorded and sent to a strange man.

"There has to be some way."
"Just out of curiosity why can't you just stay in your room..."

As if it's just such a reasonable suggestion. As if it's no big deal for a terrified 14 year old who has been repeatedly brutalized, to record it.

FIVE: Again, this little girl pleads. Once more desperate for this adult to help her without making her get raped on camera, "Bryan I can’t stand it I’ll have a [effing] mental breakdown… idfk how"

This noble hero's response? "Ok".

Ok?

"I'll have a mental breakdown." His response is basically, "Oh well."

This is tragic to me. She knew in her heart he could help her without that. His cold manipulation of her and capitalization of her desperation to me in this conversation chain is obvious.

But she tries another time to get this adult to do the right thing for her. To avoid forcing her to exploit herself and endure hell on camera. Begging. Pleading.

SIX: "There has to be a way I can’t just stay here bryan I’m begging u plz" And he again insists, "There is. Be in your room when he comes home and have the phone recording. That way when he comes for you it’s already recording and you don’t have to worry about anything And I can’t help you if we don’t have foolproof leverage against your dad". He coerces her to think the only way to get "foolproof leverage" is to record herself being raped. And send it to stranger. Despite the cost to her mental stability in doing so. Our hero.

Finally, she explains the depth of her horror over what he is telling her to do as the price for freedom. She demonstrates that so great is her anguish over the possibility of being raped on camera, in order to be helped, that she would rather just die.

SEVEN: "If u don’t help me somehow I might as well kill my [effing] self like I’ve been planning to do I can’t get the video I just can’t"

This caring hero's response to a terrorized child? He becomes angry. Defensive. She's 14 and being raped. She's pleading for help. And he gets mad at her, "So I’m an *advertiser censored***** for not risking going to prison for someone I haven’t even met?". He shows how much he cares for this vulnerable child, "someone I haven't even met", yet is willing to work so hard to "help" her by getting her to record her rape, send it to him and then drive to pick her up and transport her across state lines?

Once again, she begs for help and states she cannot do it. She cannot get that dreaded but much coveted video.

EIGHT: "IDFK ANYMORE! But u can’t just leave me here! If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either Idfk what to do anymore

Again, he demonstrates an utter disregard for her mental state, an utter lack of any empathy for this child victim, “And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either”

NINE: "If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either Idfk what to do anymore"

The child is so desperate for this adult to do the right thing, she actually suggests an alternative herself - running away (it's actually the second time she hopefully suggests it before he bites) - and only then, nine times after she expressed her devastation about doing what he kept telling her she had to do, does he casually tell her she can take that option. " Good. Run away to a friends house".

But we see later in the conversation how he uses his skill at manipulation in making that option seem like not a sure thing, as opposed to his determination in getting her to record her rape. "Run to a friends house and hope for the best".

This kid doesn't stop though. She tries yet again. Please, man. Help me. Don't make me do this. Just help me. Do the right thing.

TEN: "That’s all the [EFFING] advice u have for me"?

And here he coldly lies, "That’s all I can offer If I knew something else I would tell you".

Oh he knew something else that could help this begging child. But he only really wanted one thing.

To me this is almost a master class in predatory manipulation. He tries to persuade her it's the only logical thing. He pretends that this is the only way to save herself. He acts like it is no big deal. He insists he cannot get involved any other way. He reacts with coldness when she tries to get out of it, withdrawing his friendliness and depriving her of his friendship. He becomes angry and defensive and tries to make himself out to be the victim, sullenly accusing her of being a jerk for not considering HIS position. She's a vulnerable child. He's a knowledgeable adult. Communicating with a child over the internet and trying to convince her to send him a video of herself being raped. He uses every emotion and argument he can to get that video. Textbook predation, IMO.

Ultimately, in the face of her continued expressions of anguish and horror about doing what he wants her to do, he lackadaisically suggests other options. But those options never come to fruition. He never calls the police. He takes no action to be a real hero to this frightened and devastated little girl.

But we know this: They talk again.

He gets the tape.
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Thank you is not enough for your contributions to this thread, Gitana. I have been seeing this case just as you presented it but I have been sitting on my hands because my anger at what happened to SP has been making it difficult to post with civility. IMO BR didn't rescue her-- he further destroyed her by making it near impossible for her to know who to trust in the future. What's also scary is how subtle BR's manipulation of the conversation was to those who are not not familiar with the tactics he used. Your breaking down how many times he asked her to make a video really revealed his intentions quite effectively IMO. He was all about the video being the only way he would help. He had some convinced he is juvenile in his thinking about how to help but I believe that was all part of his scheme. I wonder if he also lied to SP about his age?

MOO.
 
kkdj said:
Found injuries relating to sexual activity....
This is very upsetting. Very.
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Yep. It also makes ZERO sense! He told her to go get a rape kit done, then does the same to her.
She's tested and since it's been 2 weeks, the adopted dad can't be the person that did it to her at this time.
He just couldn't leave her alone.
Something is still fishy about what we know so far.
I can't figure it out, but there is still more to the story!
Moo
 
The Night Watchman said:
As she argued that Rogers should remain in custody until his trial, Pfluger said a sexual assault examination of the girl after she was found in Rogers' home noted evidence of recent sexual activity, estimated within three to five days of the exam, well within the time she was with Rogers.
Rogers' lawyer, Jonas Bednarek, hotly disputed that conclusion, saying it wasn't at all supported by the evidence.

Man charged in child exploitation case ordered to remain in jail, judge finds probable cause

This is the first article that says the defense disputes the finding of sexual activity while held by BR. It can at least be hoped that it is an overzealous prosecution.

I tried Googling the topic of physical evidence of sexual activity and couldn't find anything directly related. I honestly don't know what they are looking for (and I really don't want to know). I assume that it means that every time a sexually active person has sexual relations, there is physical evidence that can be deduced 3-5 days later. I did not know this.
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Well, bruising is a pretty good indicator of sexual activities. That may be what they are referring to when they say, "injuries related to sexual activity." Imo
 
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The Night Watchman said:
As she argued that Rogers should remain in custody until his trial, Pfluger said a sexual assault examination of the girl after she was found in Rogers' home noted evidence of recent sexual activity, estimated within three to five days of the exam, well within the time she was with Rogers.
Rogers' lawyer, Jonas Bednarek, hotly disputed that conclusion, saying it wasn't at all supported by the evidence.

Man charged in child exploitation case ordered to remain in jail, judge finds probable cause

This is the first article that says the defense disputes the finding of sexual activity while held by BR. It can at least be hoped that it is an overzealous prosecution.

I tried Googling the topic of physical evidence of sexual activity and couldn't find anything directly related. I honestly don't know what they are looking for (and I really don't want to know). I assume that it means that every time a sexually active person has sexual relations, there is physical evidence that can be deduced 3-5 days later. I did not know this.
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Google "FISH test sexual assault".
Fluorescence in situ hybridization,
I found it to be interesting.
Moo
 
Jim_M said:
Madison man charged with production of child *advertiser censored* in missing Tennessee girl case

"After 40 min, a federal judge ruled there is probable cause to charge Bryan Rogers w/production of child *advertiser censored*. He also ruled Rogers will remain detained until trial because he believes Rogers is a flight risk."

"Rogers is accused of persuading a 14-year-old Tennessee girl to record a rape and send the video to him. Court records said after he saw the video, he didn't report it to police, and instead brought the girl to Wisconsin, taking steps to avoid being tracked.

The defense argued Rogers only suggested she make a recording for evidence, and that came after he suggested other ways for her to get out. "
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I'm so thankful the judge didn't grant bail. BR stated he avoided toll roads and major highways while transporting SP to WI, in order to avoid cameras. I believe he also drove those 800 miles without stopping for gas because he said he avoided gas stations. Think about that. A man who knows how to do that also knows how to flee and evade recapture by LE. Good call judge!
 
PommyMommy said:
BBM - Did you guys miss this part?

Madison man heads to trial for production of child *advertiser censored* in missing Tennessee girl case
In court Tuesday, assistant U.S. attorney Julie Pfluger said this proves what the charges allege: Rogers asked the girl to make a video, and the video was transported across state lines. Pfluger also said she was present for a sexual assault exam in Madison, where the nurse said there was recent sexual activity and it was "not possible these are from the father."

However, Rogers’ attorney said the “intent is highly relevant.”
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RSBM

:mad::mad::mad:
 
Gardener1850 said:
Thank you is not enough for your contributions to this thread, Gitana. I have been seeing this case just as you presented it but I have been sitting on my hands because my anger at what happened to SP has been making it difficult to post with civility. IMO BR didn't rescue her-- he further destroyed her by making it near impossible for her to know who to trust in the future. What's also scary is how subtle BR's manipulation of the conversation was to those who are not not familiar with the tactics he used. Your breaking down how many times he asked her to make a video really revealed his intentions quite effectively IMO. He was all about the video being the only way he would help. He had some convinced he is juvenile in his thinking about how to help but I believe that was all part of his scheme. I wonder if he also lied to SP about his age?

MOO.
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I understand Gardener1, I feel like I have been in a ring with Mike Tyson for a few days. Being right has made it even more painful actually.

I wanted to wrong, I felt relief that she may not have been SA by BR. She was hurt further and deeply and I cannot imagine how hard it will be for SP to ever trust another human being again. It's so very sad and something I will never get used to no matter how many threads I support here on WS. :(
 
gngr~snap said:
Google "FISH test sexual assault".
Fluorescence in situ hybridization,
I found it to be interesting.
Moo
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Excellent. Thanks!

I wasn't aware of this, and that is why I asked- I though it might be some subjective skin tissue tearing analysis.

The test sounds foolproof for evidence of recent sexual activity. I don't like the three week reference though, as it could be a legal loophole. Hopefully they can identify the source of the cells as well.

In a prospective blinded controlled study, the efficacy of fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) to detect non-sperm male cells verifying sexual contact was examined. Cervicovaginal smears (CVS) from 40 women with reported post-coital intervals were examined for sperm by cytology and for sperm and non-sperm male cells by FISH using X and Y chromosome specific DNA probes.

Fluorescence in situ hybridization identified sperm and/or nonsperm male cells in all specimens from women with positive coital histories, including when the partner had a vasectomy. Male cells were also detectable by FISH in CVS up to 3 weeks after coitus. In comparison, cytology identified sperm in 41% of the positive coital history cases, and none beyond 2 weeks.

Fluorescence in situ hybridization is highly sensitive and specific in detecting male cells, and can be performed rapidly on routine CVS. Application of this technique can provide new and additional evidence of sexual contact when current tests are inconclusive.

Identification of Male Epithelial Cells in Routine Postcoital Cervicovaginal Smears Using Fluorescence In Situ Hybridization: Application in Sexual Assault and Molestation
 
girlhasnoname said:
I get absolutely NO JOY in ever being 'right' or having the very suspicions I suggested be proved by physical evidence. BR was always a predator, Occam's Razor, and if walks like duck and all.

Sadly, the point of all of this was that SP was revictimized ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!! I hope both RP and BR rot behind bars, there are no words for the depths of their depravity IMO :(

JMO <pass me some tissues, this just damn hurts>
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You're not the only one needing tissues. Times like this, I find myself taking a break for a few. I so wanted him to be her hero.....for SP.
 
Gardener1850 said:
Thank you is not enough for your contributions to this thread, Gitana. I have been seeing this case just as you presented it but I have been sitting on my hands because my anger at what happened to SP has been making it difficult to post with civility. IMO BR didn't rescue her-- he further destroyed her by making it near impossible for her to know who to trust in the future. What's also scary is how subtle BR's manipulation of the conversation was to those who are not not familiar with the tactics he used. Your breaking down how many times he asked her to make a video really revealed his intentions quite effectively IMO. He was all about the video being the only way he would help. He had some convinced he is juvenile in his thinking about how to help but I believe that was all part of his scheme. I wonder if he also lied to SP about his age?

MOO.
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I appreciate that. You know on occasion I am very certain about a case. Casey Anthony. Scott Peterson. Chris Watts. Etc. But more often I have a sense of which way it leans but can't be sure.

When I'm pretty certain I don't think I've been wrong yet (except some might say with casey anthony, ha ha! "Not guilty, ya' know. Ugh" ) When I'm not certain I've been wrong about my suspicions several times. Like the little Texas girl from a polyamourous family who was killed by a 17 year old. I suspected her parents. Or little Jessica Ridgeway killed and dismembered. Again by a 17 year old. Some suspected a teen. I couldn't grasp that. It still shocks me.

But I had no certainty in those cases.

It actually takes a lot for me to make a definitive statement about a person's guilt.

And me when I'm certain it comes down to clear human nature. How do people (as far as I understand the world), typically act in a given situation? What is plausible? Do grieving moms party and dance wildly and smile when their child has just died, but exhibit no actual psychosis? Do innocent, expectant husbands with super pregnant wives go fishing for an out of season fish in a boat no one has seen, on Christmas Day, alone? Do "loving", innocent fathers stand dry-eyed and smiling as they lie about knowing the whereabouts of the babies they just stuffed in oil drums to rot? Do well-intentioned, concerned adults who encounter suicidal, severely abused children on-line, coldly pressure them to record their own abuse and send it to them, and then drive hundreds of miles to "rescue" them and hide them, instead of simply calling the authorities?

What's logical?

When there have to be too many machinations, when you have to keep stretching in order to find that the prosecuting body is wrong, too many exceptions to the general rule, and no clear reasons for such exceptions (like obvious psychosis or brain damage), it starts to become implausible for me.

From the beginning it seemed to me this kid was revictimized. None of what he did made any sense to me under the circumstances and given who he is.

No well-intentioned adult would say and do what he said and did to this kid, IMO.
 
gitana1 said:
I appreciate that. You know on occasion I am very certain about a case. Casey Anthony. Scott Peterson. Chris Watts. Etc. But more often I have a sense of which way it leans but can't be sure.

When I'm pretty certain I don't think I've been wrong yet (except some might say with casey anthony, ha ha! "Not guilty, ya' know. Ugh" ) When I'm not certain I've been wrong about my suspicions several times. Like the little Texas girl from a polyamourous family who was killed by a 17 year old. I suspected her parents. Or little Jessica Ridgeway killed and dismembered. Again by a 17 year old. Some suspected a teen. I couldn't grasp that. It still shocks me.

But I had no certainty in those cases.

It actually takes a lot for me to make a definitive statement about a person's guilt.

And me when I'm certain it comes down to clear human nature. How do people (as far as I understand the world), typically act in a given situation? What is plausible? Do grieving moms party and dance wildly and smile when their child has just died, but exhibit no actual psychosis? Do innocent, expectant husbands with super pregnant wives go fishing for an out of season fish in a boat no one has seen, on Christmas Day, alone? Do "loving", innocent fathers stand dry-eyed and smiling as they lie about knowing the whereabouts of the babies they just stuffed in oil drums to rot? Do well-intentioned, concerned adults who encounter suicidal, severely abused children on-line, coldly pressure them to record their own abuse and send it to them, and then drive hundreds of miles to "rescue" them and hide them, instead of simply calling the authorities?

What's logical?

When there have to be too many machinations, when you have to keep stretching in order to find that the prosecuting body is wrong, too many exceptions to the general rule, and no clear reasons for such exceptions (like obvious psychosis or brain damage), it starts to become implausible for me.

From the beginning it seemed to me this kid was revictimized. None of what he did made any sense to me under the circumstances and given who he is.

No well-intentioned adult would say and do what he said and did to this kid, IMO.
Click to expand...
This is where I draw from as well. Thank you for stating this simply logical assertion.
 
Cyber sleuth said:
Guilty here! I’ve been a flip flopper and had flipped after I read the defense memo only to flip again after reading your breakdown.
Ugh, I had that glimmer of hope that BR had good intentions and bad execution for half a day.
In the gray area ( not law) I think BR got to play out a fantasy of being a hero and poor SP fell back on survival tactics.
Click to expand...

It was reading the convo that made it so clear for me. It was so emotionally manipulative and illogical and predatory to me. I felt BR was no good guy the moment I heard he'd been communicating online with a child, encouraged her to record and then send HIM a video of her being raped, and then travelled miles to pick her up and hide her.

But the conversation made it very certain. Because the defense presented the best of what they had and it didn't show a misguided man or a caring one. He was a jerk. He was mean. This poor kid was horrified by the thought of doing what he wanted her to do. She literally said she would lose her mind. And his responses were so callous and cold.

A caring hero would never have responded to a frightened child that way, IMO. No way. E.g. "Just have the camera ready. I mean he's going to rape the hell out of you anyhow so no big deal!"

Geez.
 
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