Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[G.bng]

The original question is about the light being on and there's no one saying the light was on when he shot her with the initial bangs.

Mrs Stipp did for sure... I think! No, seriously I am sure she did so check out her testimony.

 

[lisasalinger]

Rumpole Reeva's cell phone text history was talked about in court today, that is where the question of rabbit is coming from. Here is a link with the texts for you to read, please give us your thoughts:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/oscar-pistorius-trial-whatsapp-messages/

Thank you for this link!! That was the worst reading ever in court today.

I still don't understand that stupid rabbit message.

 

[minor4th]

Hmm, I would have thought that OP's text about the shooting incident when he got his friend to cover for him would have been good enough for you to agree that his not guilty plea on that charge was a lie...

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/texts-reveal-reeva-s-fear-of-oscar-1.1665532#.UzA5koV28ts


http://www.scribd.com/doc/185695401/Full-document-%E2%80%93-Oscar-Pistorius-indictment

A "not guilty" plea is never a lie. It is telling the state to prove the charge with evidence.

 

[G.bng]

Honestly I am lost. Where are you folks getting it from that the forensic findings included gunshot residue found on a light switch?

The ballistics expert said it, I think, but don't ask me his name.

 

[minor4th]

Mrs Stipp did for sure... I think! No, seriously I am sure she did so check out her testimony.

She was not looking out the window when the shots were heard. She tried to kind of imply that she saw the lights at the same time as the shots, but she was not looking out the window until she heard screams and that's when she looked and saw the light on

 

[G.bng]

Yeah, she saw the lights on after the shots. But she also said she didn't look out the window until she heard screaming. I really don't believe Mrs Stipp's testimony in its entirety. She has been shown to be either biased towards the prosecution or having a faulty memory.

Not sure she is biased towards prosecution because I didn't think that, but it wouldn't be surprising that any witness that, wrongly or rightly, is convinced they hear the screams from the traumatic murder of a woman and then sees that the accused is claiming he shot believing it to be an intruder, would certainly not be biased towards the defence!

 

[Val1]

Thank you for this link!! That was the worst reading ever in court today.

I still don't understand that stupid rabbit message.

Lol, well to me it was basically just a private reference saying that the past is the past and why can't they just concentrate on and be happy in the present.

 

[minor4th]

Not sure she is biased towards prosecution because I didn't think that, but it wouldn't be surprising that any witness that, wrongly or rightly, is convinced they hear the screams from the traumatic murder of a woman and then sees that the accused is claiming he shot believing it to be an intruder, would certainly not be biased towards the defence!

I don't know that it really matters either way. It's just not good when you have a witness willing to say things that arent true just because that's what the police and prosecutors want you to say.

 

[minor4th]

Honestly I am lost. Where are you folks getting it from that the forensic findings included gunshot residue found on a light switch?

It was in the ballistic guy's testimony - towards the end

 

[Val1]

A "not guilty" plea is never a lie. It is telling the state to prove the charge with evidence.

But his own words are evidence...

Angel please don't say a thing to anyone. Darren told everyone it was his fault. I can't afford for that to come out. The guys promised not to say a thing.

Plus Darren has since testified that he had indeed covered up for OP at OP's request.

 

[minor4th]

But his own words are evidence...



Plus Darren has since testified that he had indeed covered up for OP at OP's request.

So what is the point you're trying to make? I'm not exactly following you

 

[Val1]

I don't know that it really matters either way. It's just not good when you have a witness willing to say things that arent true just because that's what the police and prosecutors want you to say.

Does this mean when the defense witnesses start testifying to stuff the defense wants them to testify to that that won't be good either?

 

[minor4th]

Does this mean when the defense witnesses start testifying to stuff the defense wants them to testify to that that won't be good either?

If it is shown that they are lying when doing so, then yes, of course

 

[Val1]

So what is the point you're trying to make? I'm not exactly following you

Nvm, apparently nothing I say will matter... :banghead:

 

[G.bng]

Only if you define "initial bangs" as occurring at 3:10, whatever those bangs were. I believe that refers to bangs as OP destroyed his bathroom because Reeva would not come out of the WC.

But if you defined "shots that killed her" as occurring at 3:17 then testimony reflects the lights were on.

I think we should check because I recall her saying she saw the lights as soon as she looked out of the window immediately after hearing the first "shots". In fact if it wasn't how I am saying what was all the defence's stupidity about the ties and the curtains and how she couldn't have seen the window fully from the bed, and she never mentioned being back in bed after the first shots...

 

[minor4th]

Nvm, apparently nothing I say will matter... :banghead:

I'm sorry you feel that way. I really was not following you. I had said a "not guilty" plea is not a lie.

 

[Rumpole]

Does this mean when the defense witnesses start testifying to stuff the defense wants them to testify to that that won't be good either?

If I can join in too

I certainly will regard it as just as bad if defense witnesses lie or embellish their story. I have in the past been just as critical, and will in this case (if it happens).

It usually HARMS rather than helps anyway. Cross examination brings it out and discredits what would have been good testimony, but for a few embellishments.

 

[G.bng]

Did you see the part where she said she wasn't present when the photos were taken in her bedroom and then it was proved that it was she holding the curtain back?

That's a pretty good indication that she is not being truthful or that her memory cannot be trusted.

Didn't you notice that they were two different photos, both with hands one of which was not hers, and according to her, as she tried to explain but was cut by Roux, the one with her hand was taken in a different shoot on a different day. So could it be she was saying she wasn't there to the the first photo, because she wansn't there.

 

[lisasalinger]

Is it just me or has nobody in the forum ever shouted at their partner or stormed off in a huff, or left anyplace early, or sent a text if you've fell out?

Jeez, I must really live on the edge in this saintly world of ours.







* I don't really want you to tell me about your personal life

Well of course we have, but we are not dead!

Because somebody is dead in this case, at the hands of her boyfriend, their relationship HAS to be analyzed. It would be incredibly irresponsible to not look at it.

People kill all the time for really ridiculous reasons, sometimes for no reason at all. It's sad, but it happens. Rarely do they send text messages to their loved one saying I'm going to kill you. Sometimes it happens, but it's surely not the norm. You have to work with what you have and see if it all fits.

Again, for me, it's all about tying it together. It's not one individual pissy text message that sets my hinky meter off, it's everything put together.

And d#mn, I think it's going to be another 4am night I'm so tired, but it's so hard to wait until morning to watch.

 

[lisasalinger]

For the skeptics of the ear witnesses out there... what say you on the evidence about hearing two different voices, both a male and a female voice, in between the bangs.

What are your thoughts on that? If you believe that Oscar is the one screaming, how do you rectify the two separate voices heard at the same time?