Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[fox1lady]

I didn't say that murder is ambiguous.

I don't agree with your opinion as to what judge Masipa's options are. I don't believe anyone here is qualified to surmise SA law with 100% certainty. Law is more complicated than a three month study of it on the internet can possibly reveal.

Extreme situations can be considered in rendering a verdict, a man on his stumps may be considered an extreme situation. No one here knows what the judge and here assessors will use or dismiss in their assessment of this case.

Which is why many of us have been listening to attorneys and judges that have been giving extensive interviews during the trial and answering similar questions to ones that have posed here.

 

[james83]

OP's reply that he didn't hear screams is entirely logically consistent with his statement that he had been deafened. He was deafened and therefore did not/ could not hear screams .

He DID know he didn't hear screams because he did know he could not hear anything.

BTW, when I first looked at this case I disbelieved his story in part because I didn't think it possible for him to not hear her scream given their proximity in such a small space.

After reading about the decibel level of a gun being shot in that small a place what I find impossible is the idea that he could hear anything at all for at least a few minutes. A single shot in that small a space has caused immediate and permanent hearing loss in some cases. Severe pain and temporary deafness is normal in those circumstances, not at all an exceptional or odd claim.

If there was indeed a pause after the first shot I'd bet it was a result of the immediate physical pain from that shot, and heightened fear because he'd lost his ability to hear the intruder. Surprising that he only fired 4 shots in those circumstances. It actually shows surprising restraint.

Strange then that when he was shouting for Reeva after firing the shot's he knew that "she wasn't responding".

 

[Viper]

I know that's asked reasonably, but I can't get on the earwitness scream merry go round discussion again. Check my past posts if you want to know my opinion about earwitness reliability.

Did you do an opinion post on OPs testimony reliability too?

 

[MsMarple]

Yet one more nail in the coffin of my belief in OP's tale is the testimony about him "missing" Reeva just hours after he shot her. Really?

Heck, when my little dog died (and he was 18, it was peaceful and I was by his side) it took time for me to emotionally accept that he was actually gone, let alone to start “missing” him. His death didn't really hit me until my friend and I played Amazing Grace at his graveside. Missing his presence was something that evolved over time. And stop that snickering, lol. :blushing:

 

[lithgow1]

RSBM

Judge Nair granted him bail because he felt OP wouldn't be a flight risk, but he declined to downgrade the Schedule 6 offense to Schedule 5 because of some of the same issues many of us here have:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/22/oscar-pistorious-bail-judge-reasons

Interesting isn't it that the five questions the judge wanted answered over a year ago have still not been satisfactorily addressed by Mr P.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I wish we knew what "the hurdle" was. Here's Reeva's encouraging msg to OP that last afternoon:

"You are an amazing person with so many blessings," "and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far out way this hurdle I can promise u that."

Hints that money was involved??

 

[crowmarsh]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/may/26/oscar-pistorius-fined-unpaid-taxes
I read quite a few articles like the one above .
I don't know how much truth there is to them but if they are largely true then I wondered if this is what could have been a problem at the time of the shooting because if it only came to light at the bail hearing it seemed to have been dealt with very quickly .
Another thing I thought was interesting in this article is it mentions him purchasing a house in Johanasburg .
I was kind of surprised Nel didn't push OP harder on what was the problem was that day but then just kind of assumed that Nel just deemed it to be not of use to the case.
Sorry if my posts are in the middle of conversation ,I am just a few pages behind ,trying to
catch up

Thank you I hadn t seen that article before and have been unable to find any reports about the meeting he attended that day.

 

[Hope4More]

If he was in such pain, and in a temporary state of deafness, why didn't he have any problems hearing Stander on the phone?

How many minutes, minimum, between last shot and phone call? I think that's your answer.

If you'd like to read discussion by gun owners about indoor shooting and ear damage... calguns.net/calgunsforum. (Search. " ear damage from shooting indoors)

First hand experiences, docs weighing in......nobody there being accused of a crime

 

[DebinGA]

Yet one more nail in the coffin of my belief in OP's tale is the testimony about him "missing" Reeva just hours after he shot her. Really?

Heck, when my little dog died (and he was 18, it was peaceful and I was by his side) it took time for me to emotionally accept that he was actually gone, let alone to start “missing” him. His death didn't really hit me until my friend and I played Amazing Grace at his graveside. Missing his presence was something that evolved over time. And stop that snickering, lol. :blushing:

That sounds lovely, MsMarple.

 

[Emz73]

Oh no! A thought just crossed my mind. If there is a recording of OP screaming or crying on the phone with a Netcare operator, telling him/her that he had accidentally shot Reeva and pleading for help, that would be the perfect thing to play at the very end of the DTs case presentation. :what:

Darn you! You've just put that out there into the cosmic world of synchronicity....it will happen now.....
:scared:

 

[DebinGA]

If OP was safety conscious enough to realize a shot into the shower stall might ricochet and hit him near the passage, he was clear thinking enough to have grabbed his shooting range ear protectors when he picked up his gun.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Has anyone seen Dr Pistorius in court? She is the criminal profiler related to OP. An aunt I think but I am not sure whether she is a blood relative or married to a Pistorius. I know she is divorced, she says due to the pressure of her work. She apparently attended every day of the Bail Hearing but I haven't recognised her at the Trial.

 

[Hope4More]

Did you do an opinion post on OPs testimony reliability too?

Yes, actually, many times. Shortest version.... he's lied about many a detail, I suspect, but not the central one.....he did not know Reeva was behind the door.

One of the most revolting things he's said is also one of the most revealing.....that he wished Reeva had let him know she was there. He blames her for putting him in this situation.

 

[Hope4More]

If OP was safety conscious enough to realize a shot into the shower stall might ricochet and hit him near the passage, he was clear thinking enough to have grabbed his shooting range ear protectors when he picked up his gun.

Good grief.

 

[lithgow1]

Yet one more nail in the coffin of my belief in OP's tale is the testimony about him "missing" Reeva just hours after he shot her. Really?

Heck, when my little dog died (and he was 18, it was peaceful and I was by his side) it took time for me to emotionally accept that he was actually gone, let alone to start “missing” him. His death didn't really hit me until my friend and I played Amazing Grace at his graveside. Missing his presence was something that evolved over time. And stop that snickering, lol. :blushing:

To be honest MsMarple I may have snickered until you said 'stop that snickering' before I got a chance to and then I didn't want to anymore if you know what I mean.

Totally off topic but do you like Miss Marple or just chose it as a good websleuths name? I only ask because I like to re-read Agathas after enough time has gone by to forget whodunnit and I've come to realise I really dislike Miss Marple as a character - now she displays TOTAL confirmation bias if I understand the term correctly. Like the little Belgian though - he has more sympathy for human foibles IMO.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Do you think this "hurdle" that distressed him on the day before the murder (the one where Reeva suggests he might like to be with his family) could be something to do with tax evasion and possible risk of prosecution. Only a thought. I think someone alluded to it earlier.

I note he has already paid a large fine, so maybe not.

"South Africa's City Press newspaper said the tax authorities audited and fined the double-amputee runner "less than one million rand" (£69,169), which he duly paid."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/may/26/oscar-pistorius-fined-unpaid-taxes

Well hypothetically assuming that the press reports are true ( they did have quotes from his uncle and manager so could be ) if it only came to light at the bail hearing and was settled by May that seems like a very short timescale for tax issues so it could have been going on before the shooting.
It does seem very odd that his sister mentioned off shore accounts being on the dongle and they were so desparate to get it out of the house they called a locksmith out and his solicitor the very same night .
I don't recall funds offshore being quoted on his bail documents but will go back and re read that to check.
One thing that stood out was that they quoted a fine of around £69,000 .
Now if that was just the fine how big was the tax bill ? That sounds like a huge fine for SA so I am thinking that was more likely the fine and back payment rolled into one ?
I guess we may never know for sure what the problem was unless Nel tells us during closing arguments.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't understand all this screaming that he claims to have been doing. Shouting yes I get that, but why scream? I reckon, if he did it, he would have done it in order to try to drown out Reeva's screams. It is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Yes, I don't understand why he would've screamed (espesh like a woman) either. In his version, shout, yes (shouting at the perceived intruder) and then wailing on realising it was Reeva he shot, but screaming?? The woman's screams as described by the ear witnesses are screams of a woman in fear of her life .. in OP's version there would be no need to be screaming like that, he would've been shouting first then wailing and crying later, but never ever screaming for fear of his life because he was never confronted by anyone that would've put him in the situation where he was screaming for his life, not even the 'wood moving' noise would've made him scream for fear of his life because he was in complete control of the gun. So when and why, exactly, was OP supposed to have screamed like a woman who was screaming for her life?

 

[Viper]

Interesting isn't it that the five questions the judge wanted answered over a year ago have still not been satisfactorily addressed by Mr P.

Indeed, but not for obvious lack of trying. Read his BA and his PE. The plea explanation was reworked to include every single concern that Magistrate Nair made note of. Every one of them is addressed.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/may/26/oscar-pistorius-fined-unpaid-taxes

RSBM to save space

Oscar Pistorius, the Paralympic star facing a murder charge, was fined for unpaid taxes after being forced to declare his assets during his bail hearing, it was reported on Sunday.

Should have said "known assets" as the actual asset info was likely removed from his safe that night.

I'd be very surprised if OP didn't lose a number of sponsors after his "The winner cheated" rant in early September's Paralympics loss to the faster Brazilian.

 

[supernovaNic]

What is you guys' opinion of the photographer, Bennie Van Staden? I've been reading on the hole in the bathroom door and came across a youtube video where Roux is questioning him about not photographing the door. This Van Staden seems like he's being dishonest or shady? He's looking down, I don't even know if he's look at the judge. He needs to be replaced as photographer because he doesn't come across well in trial, at least the 3 minutes I just watched.

More about Frank Chiziweni
Maybe Frank is 80 and wears hearing aids, but really... why wouldn't they say that if it were the case?

Also, a read a report where the police officer said he spoke good English.

Happy
Mother's
Day to all mums !!