Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[LaLaw2000]

I don't know if it's that there's more than the gunshot wounds or if the wound are just that terrible. I agree that based on the description (gravely personal) it does sound like the shot to her groin was actually to her vaginal area. How awful. Is this the evidence that shows she was standing, facing the door when she was hit?

Trying to catch up here..............

Could it be that one of the bullets went through her hip and injured the private area? Other than that, surely it would not have been a direct shot to her private area.

*I absolutely despise OP.............................such an angry, entitled, spoiled brat whose fame went to his head.

GUILTY!!
He thinks he should get away with murder.

 

[MeeBee]

Trying to catch up here..............

Could it be that one of the bullets went through her hip and injured the private area? Other than that, surely it would not have been a direct shot to her private area.

*I absolutely despise OP.............................such an angry, entitled, spoiled brat whose fame went to his head.

GUILTY!!
He thinks he should get away with murder.

Looks that way lalaw. The bullet indeed went through her hip/groin. No talk of genital injuries. That was just speculation on our parts based on the odd wording of the pathologist's objection to open testimony.

 

[Trooper]

It was Valentine's Day and they were young, in a fresh relationship and having a sleepover. We've all been there. Do you guys really think they went to sleep at 10pm?

no. I don't believe the fan nonsense or the windows blinds and noise from the bathroom either .

so I don't believe the get out , get out, was yelled at an intruder..

Its February, high summer, warm nights.. I know how warm those nights are, about 63 degrees the days around 95-99... its 4500 feet above sea level,

no one sleeps in their nike shorts and a tanktop in February in Pretoria...not on a sleepover on Valentines eve.

She had been in those clothes all day!!. she arrived earlier in the day and picked up laundry, took it somewhere, came back, same clobber, then she's dead at 3.17 am , same clobber....

no. she brought a Valentines gift with her to give to him!!

btw,, where is her gift from him?? odd, or what??

 

[Lyra500]

Saayman says Reeva was shot with 'Black Talon' ammunition which is designed to kill, not disable

Isn't that game over?

If these bullets are designed to kill and he deliberately had a gun loaded with them and then deliberately went to shoot someone, discharging four bullets at them in a confined space, how can that not be murder (whoever was in the toilet)?

I wonder if part of Oscar's nausea is related to fear and stress because of the realisation of how deeply he is in the ****. Also, everyone in that court room (and eventually the world i would suspect) will know exactly what he did to Reeva. Nowhere to hide now.

 

[Zinn]

Regarding the reports of OP's demeanor in the courtroom today (plugging his ears, retching, vomiting), my feeling is that he is someone who seems unable to take responsibility for his actions. I did not take the ear plugging to be a defensive act of someone who didn't want to hear the details of their lover's death, I took it to be an unwillingness to confront the reality and consequences of his own actions.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Cherwell]

BBM - that's HUGE. The whole premise so far is that if (as according to Roux) the head shot was first, then no one can possibly have heard Reeva screaming. If the shots were so close together, I can't see how anyone can prove the order of them. But still, we now have someone who claims she would have still been able to scream after the head shot, which would strengthen the witnesses accounts of hearing screaming after the last shot.

Sorry, but I would take "incapacitated" to suggest that she would have been incapable of screaming after the head shot.

I do accept, though, that a final scream could have been audible to neighbours after the sound of the shot, because of the gun sound travelling faster. But only a split second after.

 

[Trooper]

no wonder mrs Burger said the screaming was blood curdling..

it was precisely that....

that terrified painfilled scream pierced Ms Burger and her husband , mrs VD merwe, and by god no wonder it propelled the brave Dr Stipp right into the line of fire.. god almighty, it must have LEVITATED them from their sound sleep in their own peaceful beds at 3.15 in the morning.. no wonder never hesitated to ring security, ... I remember Dr Stipp was so frightened by these sounds he hollered at his wife, who just woke up herself, poor thing to get away from the window..

it must have sounded like carnage..

because. .. it was.. Reeva was like a trapped animal.

 

[bessie]

Trying to catch up here..............

Could it be that one of the bullets went through her hip and injured the private area? Other than that, surely it would not have been a direct shot to her private area.

*I absolutely despise OP.............................such an angry, entitled, spoiled brat whose fame went to his head.

GUILTY!!
He thinks he should get away with murder.

No, not a direct shot, but I'm curious about the cause of these bruises.

"There were also bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/10/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-6

 

[lilblue]

Sorry, but I would take "incapacitated" to suggest that she would have been incapable of screaming after the head shot.

I do accept, though, that a final scream could have been audible to neighbours after the sound of the shot, because of the gun sound travelling faster. But only a split second after.

Not an expert, but I don't think one sound would travel faster than another. It could be possible that if she was in the process of a long scream during which the final shot was fired, that her forceful exhalation, muscle contractions in her throat and diaphragm, and therefore the vibration of her vocal chords creating the sound continued a short time after the shot.

eta: I hope that made sense

 

[Estelle]

#OscarPistorius is still trending at No 1 in South Africa such is the level of interest in this case.

 

[Lyra500]

No, not a direct shot, but I'm curious about the cause of these bruises.

"There were also bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/10/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-6

Yes, i wonder about those bruises too. There are some reports noting that many of OP's trophies were not lined up neatly on the shelves as seen in previous photos, but scattered around to house, with some of them broken. I wonder if glancing blows from some of these 'flying objects' could have caused the bruises. Of course if that was the case it would lend itself strongly to the 'violent argument' scenario. I have not read any explanations about how or why the trophies ended up in such disarray.

 

[Estelle]

IMO conflict usually escalates from verbal abuse and arguments to sexual and/or physical abuse and then the perpetrator could choose to end it, as in this case, with the violent shooting of his victim if he has a gun. My question is whether OP decided to cover his tracks of prior sexual and/or physical abuse by shooting his victim thinking he could more easily get away with murder by blaming it on an intruder hoping that his prior sexual and/or physical abuse would be covered up by his brutal gunshots by using that type of ammunition?

 

[Cherwell]

No, not a direct shot, but I'm curious about the cause of these bruises.

"There were also bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin."

To be fair, she might have had some bruising already from something innocuous. I bruise very easily and have often got bruising somewhere about my person from banging into something, falling over the dog etc

 

[soozieqtips]

IMO conflict usually escalates from verbal abuse and arguments to sexual and/or physical abuse and then the perpetrator could choose to end it, as in this case, with the violent shooting of his victim if he has a gun. My question is whether OP decided to cover his tracks of prior sexual and/or physical abuse by shooting his victim thinking he could more easily get away with murder by blaming it on an intruder hoping that his prior sexual and/or physical abuse would be covered up by his brutal gunshots by using that type of ammunition?

That's possible. I assume there will be medical experts to comment on the pathologist's findings? In the UK, we sometimes have several experts who will each interpret the results in their own ways. As in, whether a cricket bat injury could be consistent with marks on the shin for example.

 

[crasshopper]

I'm confused by the call log.
I am glad Baba is sticking to his guns. I don't trust call logs, my cell phone call history has had mistakes. I have received messages in my voicemail with NO evidence of the incoming call on my call history.

 

[kittychi]

Mine told me I'm not crazy, I'm just a carrier.

:silly:

.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

lilblue: Not an expert here either, but several articles I read just the other day indicate different sounds do indeed travel at different rates. There is no way I would even attempt to explain this. But if you google "speed of soundwaves" you will find the answer.
-------------------

"There was some reddish discoloration on her right nipple, said Saayman.

He said this could have been caused by frictional contact."

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...ines-cold-details-of-Reevas-injuries-20140310

This bruising bothers me greatly. First, it is red, meaning it is fresh. Secondly "frictional contact" is not "blunt force" contact. I would like the Prosecutor to get a more definitive explanation of "frictional contact". Could it mean "pinching" or "twisting"? I don't know the answer, but I'd like to know what this Medical Examiner includes in the category of "frictional contact"?
-------------------
Only a teaspoon of urine in the bladder. Could have urinated prior to or after death. Sorry to be graphic, but sometimes death causes relaxation of all sphincter muscles. So all products of elimination will escape the body.

Whoever examined and tested the clothing should be able to shed more light on this.
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Re: OP gagging, retching, and vomiting

This dude seems to have a hair-trigger stomach, as many people do. And some of them, once started cannot stop the gagging, retching reflex. Or, if they are the Drama King type, may not really want to stop it. As for the vomiting itself, once the stomach is emptied only a little bile will be produced upon further retching.

All of this can be controlled by medication, which his attorneys would be well advised to see to it that he gets prior to tomorrow's further testimony by the Medical Examiner. Otherwise the judge should make arrangements for OP to be placed in an out-of-the-courtroom location with access to the broadcast of the testimony.
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To me, this judge is coming across as weak. Today she asked the media attorney (words to this effect) "Is it okay if I do this?" As soon as I heard that, I thought to myself - why is SHE asking HIM? There have been several other times when she has said things in a manner that make her sound weak or not in control of the proceedings. Another time was around Day 2-3 during an argument between the two attorneys on an objection. She said to Roux (words to the effect) "I'm not sure I can do that". Perhaps it is just the way she words things, or maybe it is a form of "courtroom politeness" in SA, but to my American courtroom watching ears, she just comes off as weak.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It will be interesting to hear how few or many marks were made by the bat. I have pondered whether in temper OP batted the door after Reeva locked herself in but didn't actually break the door down. In his fury at being unsuccessful he got his gun and shot through the door. After the shooting he had another go at the door and eventually was successful, possibly due to the power of the shots having weakened the panels. There was no way he could leave her there.

 

[Estelle]

I will respond to your post underneath with >>>>>>

lilblue: Not an expert here either, but several articles I read just the other day indicate different sounds do indeed travel at different rates. There is no way I would even attempt to explain this. But if you google "speed of soundwaves" you will find the answer.

>>>>>>>I agree with you the sound of a gun like the one described, would travel much faster than a woman's screams.
-------------------

"There was some reddish discoloration on her right nipple, said Saayman.

He said this could have been caused by frictional contact."

This bruising bothers me greatly. First, it is red, meaning it is fresh. Secondly "frictional contact" is not "blunt force" contact. I would like the Prosecutor to get a more definitive explanation of "frictional contact". Could it mean "pinching" or "twisting"? I don't know the answer, but I'd like to know what this Medical Examiner includes in the category of "frictional contact"?

>>>>>>IMO this could be a sign of sexual abuse.
-------------------
Only a teaspoon of urine in the bladder. Could have urinated prior to or after death. Sorry to be graphic, but sometimes death causes relaxation of all sphincter muscles. So all products of elimination will escape the body.

Whoever examined and tested the clothing should be able to shed more light on this.

>>>>>>IMO RS probably released the urine after death. I do not think she got up and went to the toilet.
-----------

Re: OP gagging, retching, and vomiting

This dude seems to have a hair-trigger stomach, as many people do. And some of them, once started cannot stop the gagging, retching reflex. Or, if they are the Drama King type, may not really want to stop it. As for the vomiting itself, once the stomach is emptied only a little bile will be produced upon further retching.

>>>>>I often think that OP is a Drama Queen rather than a Drama King - he not only apparently screams like a woman but is also so weak in the stomach that he retches like a woman. IMO this is designed to distract the proceedings as it is always about him and how he feels. IMO he should win an Oscar award for his acting abilities. He acts like a child still not able to take responsibility for his actions. Perhaps his family and defence has encouraged him to act like this. Can it be faked? He has already been aware of the injuries he caused so has he been in denial all this time? A true narcissist!

All of this can be controlled by medication, which his attorneys would be well advised to see to it that he gets prior to tomorrow's further testimony by the Medical Examiner. Otherwise the judge should make arrangements for OP to be placed in an out-of-the-courtroom location with access to the broadcast of the testimony.

>>>>>>Yes he should take medication for it but I really want him to have hear everything.

-------------

To me, this judge is coming across as weak. Today she asked the media attorney (words to this effect) "Is it okay if I do this?" As soon as I heard that, I thought to myself - why is SHE asking HIM? There have been several other times when she has said things in a manner that make her sound weak or not in control of the proceedings. Another time was around Day 2-3 during an argument between the two attorneys on an objection. She said to Roux (words to the effect) "I'm not sure I can do that". Perhaps it is just the way she words things, or maybe it is a form of "courtroom politeness" in SA, but to my American courtroom watching ears, she just comes off as weak.

>>>>>>I agree with you. I have never heard of a Judge being so weak. In Australia too, Judges have control. But the worst thing IMO was when she said that Roux was allowed to put things into the witnesss' mouth!!!

 

[Dmacky]

It will be interesting to hear how few or many marks were made by the bat. I have pondered whether in temper OP batted the door after Reeva locked herself in but didn't actually break the door down. In his fury at being unsuccessful he got his gun and shot through the door. After the shooting he had another go at the door and eventually was successful, possibly due to the power of the shots having weakened the panels. There was no way he could leave her there.

Also there have been many reports about his steroid use. Roid rage added to this equation is cetainly posible!