Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[AlwaysShocked]

Re: OP going upstairs

Surely there was a toilet a lot closer than having to go upstairs? And if you need to throw up and you are standing near the open (or closed) front door, why not just step outside?

Nope, he wanted to go upstairs for some reason.

 

[redheadedgal]

My message to Oscar Pistorius:

Man up, dude. This what YOU did to Reeva. You saw her injuries the night you gunned her down. You carried her bleeding, broken, gunshot-battered body down your stairs. This is NOT new information to you, so stop pretending this is the first time you're hearing about her horrific injuries that YOU caused.

Plugging your ears, or covering your ears with your hands is something a child does when they don't want to hear the truth. Are you a child or are you a man?

You are/were an accomplished athlete, overcoming incredible obstacles to achieve success. Yet, these accomplishments do not make you a man. Athletic prowess is indeed admirable, but has little to no real value in terms of true manhood. It is a façade of manhood.

Did you plug or cover your ears when you were being lauded for your athletic achievements? No, of course you didn't. You welcomed the accolades showered upon you and everything that accompanied them - fame, financial rewards, admiration, etc.

You claimed to have loved Reeva. (To borrow your counsel's phrase), I put it to you: Love does not seek to block out the truth. Love does not seek to plug or cover one's ears to the truth, no matter how horrendous that truth may be. Love stands up and faces the truth, rather than cowering like a helpless child incapable of stomaching responsibility, as was demonstrated by your incessant theatrical retching.

If you would be a man, unplug your ears, open your eyes, and hear and see what you have done to a woman you claimed to have loved. Attempting to hide from the truth won't change reality one iota, but only exposes you for the manipulative coward that many believe you to be.

If you loved Reeva, as you would have the Court (and the world) believe, then man up and accept responsibility for what YOU did to her. Stop playing the role of the delicate child, because it only serves to perpetuate the image of a cowardly murderer, and does not serve justice for Reeva.

For once in your life, cast aside the costume of manhood that you have been wearing, and be a true man.

THANK YOU!! it's exactly what i was thinking reading the trial tweets earlier... but expressed so much better.

:seeya:

 

[Pisto_lius]

We've talked a lot about what happened that night at Oscar's house, but we haven't really discussed (at least that I'm aware of) what both Oscar and Reeva did earlier that day on Feb 13.

All I have heard is that Reeva was at Oscar's earlier in the day and left with laundry, then came back at 6pm.

I don't know what Oscar was doing. Does anybody have details?

I hope the data from the phones reflects the whole day and not just the last few hours. We'll see.

* There was no arrangement for OP and Reeva to meet at 13 Feb - Reeva would have gone out with her friends and OP with his friends. But then OP phoned Reeva and asked that they rather have a quiet dinner together and she agreed.

Why???

* OP's statement in his affidavit that Reeva asked him to open her Valentine’s gift the next day confirms they also did not intend to spend Valentine's together. If so, she could have given it to him the next day.

Reeva had two appointments for Valentine's. So she agreed the surprising meeting and decided to give him her Valentine's gift this afternoon.

But Reeva haven't prepared the gift and went to a party shop close to OP's house where she wrapped the gift. Because this was so shortly before she drove to OP she didn't get Valentine wrapping paper but an alternative paper. This further underlines that her meeting with OP at 13 Feb was not initially planned, but rather arranged very short-term.

* Reeva also had no intention of spending the night with OP what is also confirmed by the fact that Reeva asked him to open the gift the next day. If it had been her intention to spend the night with OP she could have given the gift to him the next morning.

She presumably wanted to return to Johannesburg the same day to practise her speech and go to bed early in preparation.

Her Joburg father Cecil Myers awaited her return this evening but for whatever reason, later in this evening Reeva changed her mind and sent him the message that she wanted to stay with OP - she sent this message at the time OP claimed in his affidavit they were in the bedroom, Reeva was doing her yoga exercises and he was in bed watching television and his prosthetic legs were off and they were “deeply in love”.

* Justin Divaris said in his affidavit

I tried to convince Oscar to stay in Johannesburg that night and come for a boy’s dinner with myself and a mutual friend. […..] Oscar said that as much as he would have loved to join the boys for dinner he would rather spend the evening with Reeva.

Samanta Greyvenstein said in her affidavit:

Oscar [then] decided he would rather spend the evening and left Johannesburg to return to Pretoria.

Both said that OP phoned Reeva – but OP claimed in his affidavit that Reeva called HIM. And both said that OP and Reeva wanted to spend the evening together. So, this also sounds they didn't intend to spend the night together. Only Justin contradicted himself at one point as he said “Reeva wanted OP to come back home and spend the night with her”.

The link with the witness statements of OP's friends
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

- Justin Divaris
- Samantha Greyvenstein
- Graham Edward Binge (OP's cousin)
- Alexandros Pilakoutos

is no longer available But maybe I'll find the document under a different link - give me some time

And during his phone calls with friends OP never mentioned that Reeva is with him....
.
.

 

[Estelle]

The bat, which had “lots of blood” on it, is being tested by forensic scientists, according to reports in South Africa.

If the blood is that of Miss Steenkamp, it would strengthen the prosecution case for premeditated murder, sources said.

If it came from Pistorius, police would argue that the model used it to defend herself

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

I had forgotten about this. I think the cricket bat might have been used for more than just the door if there is any truth in this.

However, it was published on 17 February, 2013.

 

[lisasalinger]

* There was no arrangement for OP and Reeva to meet at 13 Feb - Reeva would have gone out with her friends and OP with his friends. But then OP phoned Reeva and asked that they rather have a quiet dinner together and she agreed.

Why???

* OP's statement in his affidavit that Reeva asked him to open her Valentine’s gift the next day confirms they also did not intend to spend Valentine's together. If so, she could have given it to him the next day.

Reeva had two appointments for Valentine's. So she agreed the surprising meeting and decided to give him her Valentine's gift this afternoon.

But Reeva haven't prepared the gift and went to a party shop close to OP's house where she wrapped the gift. Because this was so shortly before she drove to OP she didn't get Valentine wrapping paper but an alternative paper. This further underlines that her meeting with OP at 13 Feb was not initially planned, but rather arranged very short-term.

* Reeva also had no intention of spending the night with OP what is also confirmed by the fact that Reeva asked him to open the gift the next day. If it had been her intention to spend the night with OP she could have given the gift to him the next morning.

She presumably wanted to return to Johannesburg the same day to practise her speech and go to bed early in preparation.

Her Joburg father Cecil Myers awaited her return this evening but for whatever reason, later in this evening Reeva changed her mind and sent him the message that she wanted to stay with OP - she sent this message at the time OP claimed in his affidavit they were in the bedroom, Reeva was doing her yoga exercises and he was in bed watching television and his prosthetic legs were off and they were “deeply in love”.

* Justin Divaris said in his affidavit



Samanta Greyvenstein said in her affidavit:



Both said that OP phoned Reeva – but OP claimed in his affidavit that Reeva called HIM. And both said that OP and Reeva wanted to spend the evening together. So, this also sounds they didn't intend to spend the night together. Only Justin contradicted himself at one point as he said “Reeva wanted OP to come back home and spend the night with her”.

The link with the witness statements of OP's friends
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

- Justin Divaris
- Samantha Greyvenstein
- Graham Edward Binge (OP's cousin)
- Alexandros Pilakoutos

is no longer available But maybe I'll find the document under a different link - give me some time

And during his phone calls with friends OP never mentioned that Reeva is with him....
.
.

Thank you!! I did not know a lot of this.

 

[Estelle]

Re: OP going upstairs

Surely there was a toilet a lot closer than having to go upstairs? And if you need to throw up and you are standing near the open (or closed) front door, why not just step outside?

Nope, he wanted to go upstairs for some reason.

OFFICIALLY, I thought he went upstairs to wash his face and hands and perhaps get that hoodie he wore in the photo when he is being taken to the police station.

But did he tamper with evidence?

Did he get or hide that iPhone?

Did he move things around? etc. etc.

 

[gajonka]

Not to forget his theory that OP's medical problems and behaviour are caused by coffee and alcohol addiction. :floorlaugh:

Dearest Brilliant Minds:

Any insight into what's on the table to night/in a few hours?>

Today's coverage was sub-par... too much censorship. Attracts demand if nothing else, but I can respect it based upon the content.

Please, share a sentence if you know what we have coming,,, and if we've completed with the ME.

Thanks, lova ya.

The Gajonka


p.s.: This has to be like, the hottest, most active thread on Ws ever- if not at least a tie for the top... blazing!

p.s.s.: I wonder where "Trooper" is... he never bows out for this long... must have a hot date or something... hmmm....

 

[Carol70]

I don't know about SA but when I lived in Europe it wasn't as common to have central air as it is here and AC was also not common, even though it got hot in Poland. You could get units yourself but I never knew anyone that did. Things are simpler.

Yes,it's the same here. There is only a month or 2 of the year that it gets to the extremes( jan/feb for where I am) where we would love aircon however, I couldn't justify the cost of having it. I don't know of anyone that has aircon in their home. Just like central heating, underfloor heating etc etc, it's rare and only for the wealthy.

 

[Harmony 2]

fwiw

Oscar Pistorius Door: Cricket Bat v Gunshot Sounds - Analysis - YouTube

 

[lisasalinger]

Dearest Brilliant Minds:

Any insight into what's on the table to night/in a few hours?>

Today's coverage was sub-par... too much censorship. Attracts demand if nothing else, but I can respect it based upon the content.

Please, share a sentence if you know what we have coming,,, and if we've completed with the ME.

Thanks, lova ya.

The Gajonka


p.s.: This has to be like, the hottest, most active thread on Ws ever- if not at least a tie for the top... blazing!

p.s.s.: I wonder where "Trooper" is... he never bows out for this long... must have a hot date or something... hmmm....

The Medical Examiner, Saayman, is back on the stand again tonight/today. I'm guessing he'll be there for a little while. I think he has a lot more to cover and Roux still needs to cross-examine him.

After that, not sure yet.

 

[lisasalinger]

The Medical Examiner, Saayman, is back on the stand again tonight/today. I'm guessing he'll be there for a little while. I think he has a lot more to cover and Roux still needs to cross-examine him.

After that, not sure yet.

I'm expecting that today will be like yesterday, censored... boo

 

[MeeBee]

Yes,it's the same here. There is only a month or 2 of the year that it gets to the extremes( jan/feb for where I am) where we would love aircon however, I couldn't justify the cost of having it. I don't know of anyone that has aircon in their home. Just like central heating, underfloor heating etc etc, it's rare and only for the wealthy.

Yes, that's the thing. It gets hot but not long enough or even hot enough to justify going all out with AC. As an American though if you're used to it, it can be kind of a shock going somewhere where there's not instant relief available from the heat. You get used to it, though. Me and my husband and daughter would escape to the mall sometimes :blushing: he liked it though. He has allergies and he's used to he blasting the AC all the time. He prefers fresh air, even he admits it can be a little unbearable.

However, in Texas, you would literally die lol. It just gets too hot here to not at least have window units or something for the long, hot springs and summers. And I run HOT.

 

[jassy writer]

Hi, and thanks for letting me join your site!

I live in South Africa (Johannesburg) - just to answer a previous question, I would not say aircon is the norm at night, especially in a house that has been well built with big windows, which are often left open. We use a fan in our bedroom, but it is more to keep the occasional mosquito away than it is to cool the room down. So yes, some houses would not have had aircon and some might not even have had fans. In a private housing estate with excellent security and in an upstairs bedroom, yes, I can agree that people would feel comfortable leaving their sliding door open.

Also, one other comment - the private ambulance service in SA is generally very good and well equipped, with ambulances as well as paramedics who travel in cars to be first responders. Unless Oscar had actually established Reeva was dead, I am confused about why anyone at Netcare would tell him to bring her to the hospital in the car... unless there was huge panic, confusion and misunderstanding during the phone call. I see that some Netcare employees are on the witness list and it will be very interesting to hear what was said and why.

 

[Estelle]

I would like to add this to Pisto_lius' post about February 13, 2013. I am putting this first only because this came before the later events in the evening.

An estate agent who attended a party with Pistorius on the afternoon of Feb 13 — hours before the shooting said he was “delightful, charming and happy”.

Valerie Berkow-Kaye said: “We were all mesmerised by such a smiley, delightful person. He certainly wasn’t planning a murder on Wednesday afternoon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

* There was no arrangement for OP and Reeva to meet at 13 Feb - Reeva would have gone out with her friends and OP with his friends. But then OP phoned Reeva and asked that they rather have a quiet dinner together and she agreed.

Why???

* OP's statement in his affidavit that Reeva asked him to open her Valentine’s gift the next day confirms they also did not intend to spend Valentine's together. If so, she could have given it to him the next day.

Reeva had two appointments for Valentine's. So she agreed the surprising meeting and decided to give him her Valentine's gift this afternoon.

But Reeva haven't prepared the gift and went to a party shop close to OP's house where she wrapped the gift. Because this was so shortly before she drove to OP she didn't get Valentine wrapping paper but an alternative paper. This further underlines that her meeting with OP at 13 Feb was not initially planned, but rather arranged very short-term.

* Reeva also had no intention of spending the night with OP what is also confirmed by the fact that Reeva asked him to open the gift the next day. If it had been her intention to spend the night with OP she could have given the gift to him the next morning.

She presumably wanted to return to Johannesburg the same day to practise her speech and go to bed early in preparation.

Her Joburg father Cecil Myers awaited her return this evening but for whatever reason, later in this evening Reeva changed her mind and sent him the message that she wanted to stay with OP - she sent this message at the time OP claimed in his affidavit they were in the bedroom, Reeva was doing her yoga exercises and he was in bed watching television and his prosthetic legs were off and they were “deeply in love”.

* Justin Divaris said in his affidavit



Samanta Greyvenstein said in her affidavit:



Both said that OP phoned Reeva – but OP claimed in his affidavit that Reeva called HIM. And both said that OP and Reeva wanted to spend the evening together. So, this also sounds they didn't intend to spend the night together. Only Justin contradicted himself at one point as he said “Reeva wanted OP to come back home and spend the night with her”.

The link with the witness statements of OP's friends
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

- Justin Divaris
- Samantha Greyvenstein
- Graham Edward Binge (OP's cousin)
- Alexandros Pilakoutos

is no longer available But maybe I'll find the document under a different link - give me some time

And during his phone calls with friends OP never mentioned that Reeva is with him....
.
.

 

[lisasalinger]

Hi, and thanks for letting me join your site!

I live in South Africa (Johannesburg) - just to answer a previous question, I would not say aircon is the norm at night, especially in a house that has been well built with big windows, which are often left open. We use a fan in our bedroom, but it is more to keep the occasional mosquito away than it is to cool the room down. So yes, some houses would not have had aircon and some might not even have had fans. In a private housing estate with excellent security and in an upstairs bedroom, yes, I can agree that people would feel comfortable leaving their sliding door open.

Also, one other comment - the private ambulance service in SA is generally very good and well equipped, with ambulances as well as paramedics who travel in cars to be first responders. Unless Oscar had actually established Reeva was dead, I am confused about why anyone at Netcare would tell him to bring her to the hospital in the car... unless there was huge panic, confusion and misunderstanding during the phone call. I see that some Netcare employees are on the witness list and it will be very interesting to hear what was said and why.

:wagon:

 

[lisasalinger]

I would like to add this to Pisto_lius' post about February 13, 2013. I am putting this first only because this came before the later events in the evening.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

In fishing around Twitter the last few days, I saw on OP's feed that he was planning to move to Johannesburg. I see in your post here you mention he was with a real estate agent that day.

Does anyone know when this move was going to take place? Was he going to sell his house in Pretoria?

 

[Canadian4]

I hope he is being given something now to keep his stomach settled. What is going to happen today if right away he starts vomiting again? Can the Judge have him removed while certain testimony is being said?

 

[minor4th]

So probably no point in staying up for the trial, eh? Since it's going to be blacked out It's probably a good thing so I can get a good night's sleep for a change

 

[minor4th]

I hope he is being given something now to keep his stomach settled. What is going to happen today if right away he starts vomiting again? Can the Judge have him removed while certain testimony is being said?

I think he has a right to be there so that he can hear the testimony and participate in his defense. You would think they would have another room he could go to though and view from a close captioned tv if he's going to keep vomiting

 

[Really?]

And if I can just add that I am barely having enough time to keep up with the posts and the trial and try to figure out what happened, so really don't have extra energy to expend on guessing things which can be, as you said, just stated as an opinion by the poster.

Although Shane13 I do appreciate your insight.

BBM.......ditto