Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[sorrell skye]

* In the presence of Dr Stipp OP promised God that if Reeva lived, OP would dedicate his life and Reeva's life to God..... Dr Stipp saw the blood and brain tissue and told him there is nothing he [Dr Stipp] can do for her - she is dead......

..... OP also saw her injuries, the blood and brain tissue - but he had nothing better to do than to turn around, went upstairs (presumably wash his face and hands and made calls).....as though nothing had happened....

* In the presence of the judge, a lot of journalists and the public he vomited for hours when he only heard about Reeva's horrible injuries.....

* Was he vomiting when he pulled Reeva from the toilet room into the bathroom and also saw her injuries, the blood and the brain tissue ? NO !

* Is there a single word in his affidavit about *horror*, *terror*, *shock* or *despair* when he saw what he had done, what happened with Reeva ??? NO, nothing !....

He only used such words when he described his fear of an alleged intruder.....

* When Pieter Baba asked him what happened because he [Baba] was informed about screams and shots OP answered "Everyhing is fine".....

He had just shot his girlfriend - his *great love* - but "Everyhing is fine"..... No *horror*, no *terror*, no *shock*....


But in court he pukes guts out, cries and prays with his whole family..... What a great actor !!

Very good points, Pistolius!

I agree - he didn't get sick & puke his guts out when he was up close and personal to Reeva and her horrific wounds, but, as you said, he went upstairs to do who knows what? Wash his hands? Change clothes? Phone his attorney?

Some people are capable of portraying dramatic reactions when necessary, especially when it benefits them.

IMO, his vomiting in court was a performance for the Judge.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Very good points, Pistolius!

I agree - he didn't get sick & puke his guts out when he was up close and personal to Reeva and her horrific wounds, but, as you said, he went upstairs to do who knows what? Wash his hands? Change clothes? Phone his attorney?

Some people are capable of portraying dramatic reactions when necessary, especially when it benefits them.

IMO, his vomiting in court was a performance for the Judge.

ITA, and I think it will backfire on him. I doubt it will get him the response he is desiring.

 

[Madeleine74]

Weren't OP & RS together just about 3 months total? Nov 2012 - Feb 14 2013?

Exactly how "in love and devoted" could these people be in a matter of 3 months? Didn't he travel during any part of that time? Wasn't she busy with her own life?

And of course there are the naysayers who leave comments after various articles in the International newspapers -- supposed "insiders" who claim that OP was not in love with RS, was looking to date others, etc, etc. So who's lying? OP or these so-called people in the know? I don't believe OP was madly in love with anything but his guns.

 

[Harmony 2]

Post the answer so that we can move on.

I did not foresee that it would create problems. I posted a response because I really thought that it was the correct answer since it fit all the criteria and we could move on.
So let’s just move on.

 

[lisasalinger]

We've talked a lot about what happened that night at Oscar's house, but we haven't really discussed (at least that I'm aware of) what both Oscar and Reeva did earlier that day on Feb 13.

All I have heard is that Reeva was at Oscar's earlier in the day and left with laundry, then came back at 6pm.

I don't know what Oscar was doing. Does anybody have details?

I hope the data from the phones reflects the whole day and not just the last few hours. We'll see.

 

[Peliman]

Riddle me this please. Warning (graphic crime scene photo at the link)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ene-photos-give-death-scene-article-1.1359610

Looking at the two bullet markers on the door. According to affidavits OP was on his stumps. (correct?)

Just assuming for a second the first shot was the head shot, it would have dropped her like a rock if she were standing near the loo. IMO the trajectory of the second shot through the door would have to be downward to strike her in the right hip. (positioning)

Would OP have been on his stumps to make those marked door shots in the order they presented?

I'm asking, not stating.

 

[Wondergirl]

Man, every time I pop in to check on this case, it's really kind of off the rail in discussions, and I squint and try to figure things out.

2 cents. Carry on.

 

[Estelle]

I have been thinking about Pistorius' behaviour in court yesterday and I have come to the conclusion that he is an attention seeker.

It does not matter to him if it's good attention or bad, he just craves attention.

I would imagine that people close to him knew it was an act and probably felt sorry for him thinking he had to act in that way.

But IMO he could have got home that night and laughed his head off at his own faked performance thinking he has duped the media and the public and distracted the court.

Lawyers often suggest tactics for the defendant to act out in court so I am also wondering whether Roux even suggested it.

 

[minor4th]

I just can't imagine cricket bad sounds reverberating through the air all the way to Burger's house like gunshots would.

There is no way they mistook the cricket bat for the gunshots at that distance. NO WAY.

JMO.

Did you watch that videotape demonstration? Yes, the sound of the cricket bat hitting the door did indeed travel that far and sounded almost identical to the gunshots.

 

[sorrell skye]

excerpted quote:
Myself, I wouldn't make too much of what he said at that moment. However guilty he may be, this was uttered by a man in extreme distress.

Could be.

But excited utterances can also often offer possible insight into a person's mode of thinking.

 

[shane13]

Post the answer so that we can move on.

I did not foresee that it would create problems. I posted a response because I really thought that it was the correct answer since it fit all the criteria and we could move on.
So let’s just move on.

I will drop the matter.

 

[lisasalinger]

Riddle me this please. Warning (graphic crime scene photo at the link)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ene-photos-give-death-scene-article-1.1359610

Looking at the two bullet markers on the door. According to affidavits OP was on his stumps. (correct?)

Just assuming for a second the first shot was the head shot, it would have dropped her like a rock if she were standing near the loo. IMO the trajectory of the second shot through the door would have to be downward to strike her in the right hip. (positioning)

Would OP have been on his stumps to make those marked door shots in the order they presented?

I'm asking, not stating.

I'm having a hard time trying to theorize which bullets came first/last.

I think we all agree with you that if she was in any upright position when she was hit in the head, she would have gone down immediately.

But the ME stated that the hip injury was very bad as well, shattered her hip, so she would have gone down on that one too. She would not have been able to support herself.

Then there is the arm... she was shot above the elbow and he mentions (according to reports) that the bullet that hit the arm likely went in to her head, so a good chance that her arm was up near her head, maybe covering her face at the time.

So most of these shots would have put her on the ground. All of the holes, appear to be in the middle of the door.

So maybe this means the first shot fired was the missed shot. She screams. He fires three more off in quick succession, then she drops to the floor.

So hard to say until we have the trajectory/door evidence too.

 

[minor4th]

* In the presence of Dr Stipp OP promised God that if Reeva lived, OP would dedicate his life and Reeva's life to God..... Dr Stipp saw the blood and brain tissue and told him there is nothing he [Dr Stipp] can do for her - she is dead......

..... OP also saw her injuries, the blood and brain tissue - but he had nothing better to do than to turn around, went upstairs (presumably wash his face and hands and made calls).....as though nothing had happened....

* In the presence of the judge, a lot of journalists and the public he vomited for hours when he only heard about Reeva's horrible injuries.....

* Was he vomiting when he pulled Reeva from the toilet room into the bathroom and also saw her injuries, the blood and the brain tissue ? NO !

* Is there a single word in his affidavit about *horror*, *terror*, *shock* or *despair* when he saw what he had done, what happened with Reeva ??? NO, nothing !....

He only used such words when he described his fear of an alleged intruder.....

* When Pieter Baba asked him what happened because he [Baba] was informed about screams and shots OP answered "Everyhing is fine".....

He had just shot his girlfriend - his *great love* - but "Everyhing is fine"..... No *horror*, no *terror*, no *shock*....


But in court he pukes guts out, cries and prays with his whole family..... What a great actor !!

Maybe he was going upstairs to vomit, as he seems to do a lot of that

 

[luvmygarden]

I have been thinking about Pistorius' behaviour in court yesterday and I have come to the conclusion that he is an attention seeker.

It does not matter to him if it's good attention or bad, he just craves attention.

I would imagine that people close to him knew it was an act and probably felt sorry for him thinking he had to act in that way.

But IMO he could have got home that night and laughed his head off at his own faked performance thinking he has duped the media and the public and distracted the court.

Lawyers often suggest tactics for the defendant to act out in court so I am also wondering whether Roux even suggested it.

And maybe the reason for trying to block cameras and audio and tweets during the discussion of Autopsy? The judge decides his fate right so maybe they don't want a record of his performance just in case it works. It will preserve his reputation if he walks maybe.

 

[Madeleine74]

Man, every time I pop in to check on this case, it's really kind of off the rail in discussions, and I squint and try to figure things out.

2 cents. Carry on.

LOL. I've been doing a scroll 'n roll myself. While humming the following tune (and changing the words to fit the situation)

"You gotta know when to hold 'em...
Know when to scroll 'em;
Know when to walk away;
Know when to run."

I don't do riddles nor am I interested in playing games and when that is combined with master baiting, well no thank you.

Oscar & his defense team are playing quite enough games in this case, AFAIC.

OP's state of mind today is not of great interest to me because:

1. It doesn't change what happened on 2/14/13
2. I don't trust OP
3. I don't believe OP's story because it simply doesn't make sense, certainly not common sense.
4. OP's actions prior to the killing paint a far more clear picture to me than OP's words after the killing.
5. I believe OP knew RS was in the loo and I believe he knew it before he fired that gun.

 

[zqtpie]

Shane, as someone previously said, you should be called The Riddler. I wish you'd just show and tell -- you're making me crazy. A propos of nothing in particular, IMO Oscar's huge successes were in the past. Often, when olympic stars reach the end of their career, they may face a void. Their whole life has been devoted to their sport...and then what? I think OP maybe was feeling that he was losing his cachet...sure he has money and fast cars and guns, but what is he really all about? Reeva's mother in an interview mentioned him driving with Reeva on a rainy night at 160 mph (could have been kph) - how nuts is that? -engaging in high risk activities is often related to feelings of emptiness. And, let's face it, Reeva was a cut above...I think he was feeling like less and less of a man, acting like the big shot carrying a gun and all that...Oscar sees control slipping away from him and maybe is feeling powerless. Reeva has her future opening up before her... he was used to winning, and it kind of sounds like he and she weren't going to make it. Again, it comes down to a rage episode. There, Psychiatric advice for free.

 

[Peliman]

I'm having a hard time trying to theorize which bullets came first/last.

I think we all agree with you that if she was in any upright position when she was hit in the head, she would have gone down immediately.

But the ME stated that the hip injury was very bad as well, shattered her hip, so she would have gone down on that one too. She would not have been able to support herself.

Then there is the arm... she was shot above the elbow and he mentions (according to reports) that the bullet that hit the arm likely went in to her head, so a good chance that her arm was up near her head, maybe covering her face at the time.

So most of these shots would have put her on the ground. All of the holes, appear to be in the middle of the door.

So maybe this means the first shot fired was the missed shot. She screams. He fires three more off in quick succession, then she drops to the floor.

So hard to say until we have the trajectory/door evidence too.

I'm trying to put it together too. Roux has proposed the head shot was first and she couldn't scream. If the hip shot was first she could have screamed. Although I believe she screamed way before the shooting occurred.

I see only two bullet markers in this photo of the door, not sure where the other ones were fired from.

JMO

 

[aa9511]

I enjoy hearing/reading everyone's opinions regarding what may have occurred on the early morning of February 14, 2013, based on the available evidence and information.

Respectfully, I fail to understand the necessity of cryptic posts such as the one above. If someone has a theory, why not just post it?

I'm all for fact-based speculation, but it seems to me that this 'guessing game' has begun to dominate the thread.

Can we all just get on with the discussion of the trial proceedings?

I mean no offense at all to you, Shane. I enjoy your insightful posts - when they contain useful information that I can apply to the case.

I don't mean to be a spoil sport, but am just expressing my opinion regarding this ongoing game.

And if I can just add that I am barely having enough time to keep up with the posts and the trial and try to figure out what happened, so really don't have extra energy to expend on guessing things which can be, as you said, just stated as an opinion by the poster.

Although Shane13 I do appreciate your insight.

 

[gajonka]

Hi Shane,
I would be interested to hear, a) what your credentials are in psychiatry/psychology/other relevant discipline, and b) when you had the opportunity to carry out a psychiatric/psychological assessment of OP...because it would be somewhat unusual that one would presume to diagnose him in the absence of both a) and b)
TIA

The bArf bag reminds me of Casey Anthony...


Sure, I show up and the fun and games are 86'd...

Smile

Enjoy,.

.G

 

[aa9511]

Saayman confirmed that it was likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-head-wound-fatal-pathologist-1.1659020#.Ux54lozn99C

If her arm had been lower (perhaps at her side or somewhere other than in front of her head) there is no way for that bullet to have penetrated her arm and entered & exited her skull.

This sounds to me as if Reeva had put her arm up in a defensive posture (in front of her head), indicating that she was aware that she was being shot at & that her life was in danger, which IMO, gives credence to the witnesses who heard a woman screaming during the gunshots.

This is the problem with the Judge not allowing ME testimony to be heard - we don't know exactly what he said and didn't say. I have heard many different versions of the bullet wounds by now.

If the above is true, that would be huge. But I thought the head bullet was a separate bullet. There were 3 bullets that went into her body, is what I thought.