Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[Alethea Dice]

MR didn't have speakers in his back seat.

But he did have one in his trunk. And one of his lady friends testified to helping him install speakers in the back. So he was obviously in the process of it.

London Free Press@RaffertyLFPReplyRafferty told the woman he was a dance instructor and contractor, On May 3 she was home sick and Rafferty came by in his car

London Free Press@RaffertyLFPReplyRafferty said he was installing speakers in the back of the car. She was in the front seat holding a flashlight to help him

London Free Press@RaffertyLFPReplyThe woman said Rafferty's car was very messy and the bottom part of the back seat was missing

JMO

 

[nursebeeme]

well i suppose once he had to get rid of the seat he had to come up with some good excuse as to why he removed it (re: have your lady friend be your alibi to you installing speakers)

moo

 

[flipflop]

But he did have one in his trunk. And one of his lady friends testified to helping him install speakers in the back. So he was obviously in the process of it.



JMO

Seeing that he had to get rid of his back seat, the speakers being installed in May would be a good cover up to why he had no backseat. MOO


Just noticed your post above Nursebee....great minds think alike!!!!!

 

[tmhco]

well i suppose once he had to get rid of the seat he had to come up with some good excuse as to why he removed it (re: have your lady friend be your alibi to you installing speakers)

moo

Yes, well after the murder. May 3rd.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/12/rafferty-trial-set-to-hea_n_1419820.html

 

[Flowercb]

well i suppose once he had to get rid of the seat he had to come up with some good excuse as to why he removed it (re: have your lady friend be your alibi to you installing speakers)

moo

Yep. And MTR didn't take kindly to Gowdey saying the rear seat may have been out on March 31st but it was put back in; otherwise, where did Tori sit?

 

[Kittymama]

I feel awful for the poor jurors who had to view the grisly autopsy photos again. And, of course, for Tori's family. I'm glad Rodney left, poor guy. I don't know if Tara was there today or not, but if she was, I would hope she left at that point, too.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, there's definitely something fishy about the car wash scenario. Rafferty became very agitated and mouthed "liar" or BS" or something both times it came up. This is odd, because that's as close as we ever saw him to testifying and I could see no reason he would dispute that in view of the multitude of other, far more damning, evidence he could have disputed presuming he were innocent. It just doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense to me. It was one of two things that the Crown was unable to find. The other was the Tim Hortons. But since that didn't depict the defendent in a negative light, and actually was attempted to be used as a positive, the defence adopted it even though it was never proven either.

So MR could only sit in the box and call her a liar on what was not proven with evidence. The only thing that wasn't was the car wash. And he's known that for quite some time.

MOO

 

[flipflop]

Blatchford: McClintic was but Rafferty's 'violent pawn,' Crown alleges



http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...violent+pawn+Crown+alleges/6588280/story.html

 

[Tahorn]

It makes perfect sense to me. It was one of two things that the Crown was unable to find. The other was the Tim Hortons. But since that didn't depict the defendent in a negative light, and actually was attempted to be used as a positive, the defence adopted it even though it was never proven either.

So MR could only sit in the box and call her a liar on what was not proven with evidence. The only thing that wasn't was the car wash. And he's known that for quite some time.

MOO

If they found the car wash, they may have found evidence including the coat and hammer.

 

[matou]

O/T but on Nancy Grace right now there is a case of a man who kidnapped a mother and her three little girls and the mother and the oldest girl was just discovered in shallow graves at the home of a man known to them. Arrested is a woman who is the suspect's WIFE who drove the vehicle containing the four females who were kidnapped (two now dead). Police are still looking for the male suspect and the two youngest girls. Women are actively participating in these types of crimes now more and more it seems. Sorry I don't have the names yet, I'm just watching it now. Point is, male/female teams are spawning all over the place. The motive is considered to be sexual, but not confirmed. No cause of death yet.

Adam Mayes is the suspect and there is an 8 year old and a 12 year old girl (last name is Bain), thought to be with him. They are in danger. There's probably a thread for this on here.
Here is the thread #2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171470&page=25

 

[Kamille]

Seeing that he had to get rid of his back seat, the speakers being installed in May would be a good cover up to why he had no backseat. MOO


Just noticed your post above Nursebee....great minds think alike!!!!!

Why didn't Derstine provide proof that there were in fact new speakers purchased and installed in his car?

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yep. And MTR didn't take kindly to Gowdey saying the rear seat may have been out on March 31st but it was put back in; otherwise, where did Tori sit?

Or maybe he got upset by that for the same reason that he gets upset about the car wash. Because it's another of TLM's lies.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

If they found the car wash, they may have found evidence including the coat and hammer.

If the innocent duped defendent had told them where to find this stuff when he was arrested (or better yet, when it happened) we'd be looking at a whole different case? Likely not. In fact, there would be much more evidence to prove his involvement IMO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Why didn't Derstine provide proof that there were in fact new speakers purchased and installed in his car?

MOO

Why didn't the Crown provide proof that the speakers were purchased after the murder?

JMO

 

[Ardy]

Coincidences DO sometimes happen, you know.

If Tori was intentionally targeted, how did TLM know that this would be the day - the first and only day - she walked home alone? Any other day she would have been with her brother.

Another possibility: MR asked her to get a child for him. She either thought of Tori as a suitable child for him to abuse, so targeted her then, or went to the school and recognized Tori and decided to take her.

I just don't see taking Tori in particular for some kind of revenge or something. I've seen no evidence that TLM would have known she was going to be walking alone that day. It seems to me that it pretty much had to be random because of that.

I find it hard to believe, honestly, that so many people here think MR is innocent. His lies and his behaviour in visiting TLM in jail, as well as the blood evidence, have been very convincing to me.

Tink

I would think it is very unusual that a jury enters deliberations all of the same mind as to the finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am reminded, if I recall correctly, that the OJ jury returned rather quickly and later explained they took a poll when they entered deliberations and every one of them voted not guilty.

Given the amount of evidence in that trial, a lot of people found that very unusual, but it happens sometimes.

On most juries, I think they enter deliberations with some believing in guilt, some believing not guilty, and some not sure either way.

That is why they deliberate over the evidence, discussing everything among themselves and perhaps even debating the meaning or lack of meaning of certain pieces of evidence.

A juror may believe MR is probably guilty, or likely guilty.......but does it reach the level of "beyond a reasonable doubt" as required by law?

I believe it was the CA jury who said that most of them thought she could be guilty.........but didn't think the prosecutor proved the case based on the evidence.

We also don't know........as the jury won't know........what the legal arguments were about. There may be convincing evidence for either side that wasn't allowed into the trial.

All I hope is that the jury somehow comes up with the right verdict.

JMO........

 

[flipflop]

Why didn't Derstine provide proof that there were in fact new speakers purchased and installed in his car?

MOO

Did he finish installing them? The gf testified that she was holding the flashlight when he was working on it, but I don't remember seeing them in evidence pics....who knows, it was after the fact, so probably doesnt matter.

 

[Heliotrope]

Or maybe he got upset by that for the same reason that he gets upset about the car wash. Because it's another of TLM's lies.

JMO

And if there's one thing Michael Thomas Rafferty simply cannot stomach, it's dishonesty.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Or maybe he got upset by that for the same reason that he gets upset about the car wash. Because it's another of TLM's lies.

JMO

We all listened to a 15-20 minute interview in which MR lied about absolutely everything he was asked. We all read the lies that he told every one of the women that passed through that courtroom giving testimony. We've all seen the lies he posted in his own words on the internet.

Why on earth are we to believe that his version of the story is not a lie?

And where are all these TLM lies? She's brutally honest to her own detriment most of the time it seems. What did she lie about that has been proven other than her first interviews with LE in which she said she was not the person who took Victoria?

MOO

 

[JayFriend]

If they found the car wash, they may have found evidence including the coat and hammer.

I would think the dumpster at a car wash would get swapped out and emptied regularly. It took 3 months to find the crime scene.

 

[Kamille]

Did he finish installing them? The gf testified that she was holding the flashlight when he was working on it, but I don't remember seeing them in evidence pics....who knows, it was after the fact, so probably doesnt matter.

Well I have no idea what he was pretending to do at that time because in order to install rear speakers in a Honda Civic Sedan you have to remove the entire rear deck, including the upper portion of the back seat.

Did he have a receipt for new speakers? Where did he get them? I think this is another one of MR's lies.

MOO