GUILTY UK - Hashim Ijazuddin, 21, and Saqib Hussain, 20, car crash A46 Leicester 11 Feb 2022 *Murder Arrests*

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@Blynk Mist​


I cant quote you for some reason.

I think early on in the thread there was a police collision specialist who was on the stand explaining how the car ended up as it did. I dont remember the full details though.

Those barriers look about 4 ft (121cm). At 90mph (144kph) I can imagine the car making it over the Barrier.

IMO
 
Blynk Mist said:
Didn't the police say the car had hit the tree and split in half on the other side of the carrigeway, earlier in the testimony? Based on the photo which shows the burnt out car next to a tree, it looked like hitting the tree had caused the car to break in half (engine coming away)?

2_A46scene.jpg


edit: looking at the above photo again, it looked like the Skoda has somehow jumped over the armco barrier in the central reservation (right of photo), thrown tree debris across the road and ended up on top of the armco barrier against a tree on the southbound carrigeway. Its the jumping over the middle barrier (on the right) I can't understand - or is this the middle barrier it's on?
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To me, this photo looks like it is taken from the southbound carriageway but facing north. And the Skoda is literally on the central reservation.
 
Blynk Mist said:
My take so far is;

Looking at Maheks TTs (maybvlogs which I believe the jury have been shown?) and what’s said in her testimony, MOO is she comes across as a young “wannabe gangster”; I’m assuming some of the others she is with in her TTs are also part of this trial(?); if so, they also come across in the same vein.

My gut instinct based on the testimony so far is Raees and Rekan are part of the same ‘crowd’ and were there that night, acting the part of “wannabe gangster” too, flexing their muscle and impressing the girl so to speak.

As the ‘adult’, the mum should have stopped it escalating the way it did, however I don’t believe any of them intended to kill Saqib that night. If they had met in the car park I suspect there would have been a fight, leading to someone in hospital but not killed.

The others, so far, appear to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Apart from Mo, they all come across as lying beyond belief about the chase & conversations before, during and after the crash.



"You may also recognise Armco barriers from high-speed roads too, such as motorways and dual carriageways. While the barriers may be completely destroyed during an accident, their main purpose is to stop vehicles from flipping or crashing onto the other side of the road. This prevents one accident from becoming many and helps increase the safety of our roads." How do Armco crash barriers work? | RTC Fencing

That's why I think it's strange, *something* must have happened which is outside of the design to make a car flip in the air and over a barrier designed to stop exactly that.
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This sounds very plausible to me. Rebels without a clue. It would be laughable if two people hadn't lost their lives.

Ammeer standing up in court and saying he went back to his house to have a "number two" makes me think that he went back to get a weapon. It just sounds so ...I'm searching for the word, and thinking, disrespectful? To be standing in court accused of murdering two people and to come up with this as an excuse. JMO
 
Legal said:
This sounds very plausible to me. Rebels without a clue. It would be laughable if two people hadn't lost their lives.

Ammeer standing up in court and saying he went back to his house to have a "number two" makes me think that he went back to get a weapon. It just sounds so ...I'm searching for the word, and thinking, disrespectful? To be standing in court accused of murdering two people and to come up with this as an excuse. JMO
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I think he went and got that screwdriver thing that was found under the driver’s seat that he was sitting behind.
 
HongKongPhooey said:
I think he went and got that screwdriver thing that was found under the driver’s seat that he was sitting behind.
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I agree, I think defendants think that if they explain something away by making up something (mildly in this case) embarrassing the jury will think he wouldn't be lying about it. It's pretty see- through though.

It's similar to defendants who continuously swear, I'm sure the reasoning is the jury will think they can't control what's coming out their mouth so must be telling the truth.
 
RusselSprout said:

Drove past the car 'already on fire'​

The court is hearing from the boss and colleague of one of the defendants Mr Ammeer Jamal. The prosecution witness told the court: "I tried ringing him [on the date in question] but there was no response. I then received a call from his girlfriend. I was told he wouldn't be in work that day. I next saw him on the Tuesday. I spoke to him about his time keeping.
"We spoke about bits of the incident which happened [on the A46]. I don't know the order but got a call from his cousin asking him if he wanted to go out for a ride, which he did. They went to Tesco car park. They drove off and another car followed.
"They went past the Lamborghini dealership and one of the vehicles hit the car and crashed. He was in the Seat. His cousin was in driver's seat. Friend in the front and girl next to him.
"They drove up and came past the car. They carried driving on the A46 and came past the car. It was already on fire. The friend in the passenger seat had a wheel brace. I'm not sure if anything was done with the wheel brace. When I asked him why he didn't stop, he said he couldn't because he could feel the heat from his car."

Wheel brace 'used to break window'​

The witness continued: "The wheel brace was being used to break the window of the Skoda. I didn't know why he [Mr Ammeer Jamal] got a new mobile phone [following the crash]. Mr Jamal looked no different and seemed himself. His demeanour was no different. We worked really well together."
www.leicestermercury.co.uk

TikTok trial day 7 court updates as jury hears police interviews

Eight people are on trial for murder after a fatal crash on the A46 near Leicester
www.leicestermercury.co.uk www.leicestermercury.co.uk
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This was from earlier on in the court case.

So Ameers Jamals boss, in a written statement sais that "The wheel brace was being used to break the window of the Skoda"

IMO he must have been told that by Jamal and that goes against what Jamal said on the stand about not knowing much about the brace.

Pretty damming when an independent witness sais stuff like that.

Mo Patels stated truths are going to be discredited in the summing up (by the other defendants barristers) as him just looking after his own interests and trying to look better.

Difficult to do though with independent witnesses.
 

Trial resumes with Ammeer Jamal back on the stand​

Rajiv Kennon KC asked Jamal about his boss at Audi Leicester. He said: "Did you have several conversations with Mark Lane over several weeks before you were arrested about what happened?" Jamal said yes and Mr Kennon asked Jamal why.

He replied: "I was scared I was anxious, traumatised. I was panicking and didn't know what to do."

Mr Kennon asked if Mark Lane had given evidence that Jamal agreed with. Jamal said part of the evidence was not accurate. Mr Lane said Raees Jamal called Ammeer from Tesco and asked him if he wanted to go for a drive.

Ammeer Jamal said that wasn't accurate.


Manager wrong about passenger swinging wheel brace at Skoda's window​

Mr Lane told the jury that Ammeer told him that an occupant of the Seat, during the chase, was trying to smash the window of the Skoda.

Mr Kennon asked: "Did you ever see a wheel brace in the hand of the front passenger seat of the Seat?" He said no.

Ammeer Jamal said he only saw the wheel brace later in the evening.

Mr Kennon asked: "Did you see anybody trying to smash the window of any car that evening?" He said no.
 

Ammeer asked why he stayed silent​

Ammeer Jamal said he answered the police's quesions 'no comment' because that was the advice his solicitor gave him. Mr Kennon asked why he took that advice.

Ammeer Jamal said: "I've never been in a police station and I've never had to take legal advice so when I was given that advice I just took it."

Finally, Mr Kennon asked: "Were you in any way a party to the killing of Saqib and Hashim?" Ammeer Jamal said no.

Blue lights at crash sight?​

Ammeer Jamal was asked by Timothy Raggat KC about the point in the night when the vehicles headed back to Leicester after the fatal crash and saw the Skoda Fabia on fire.

Mr Raggat asked if there were flashing blue lights already at the scene at that point. Ammeer Jamal said he did not remember that.

The jury has already heard that Mohammed Patel claimed he wanted to call 999 as they past the flaming vehicle but was told not to.
 

Balaclavas​

Sarah Vine KC, for Mohammed Patel, asked Ammeer about the face coverings her client said the men were all wearing. She asked: "When Mohammed Patel described you and Sanaf being in balaclavas was he right or wrong?"

Ammeer said Patel was wrong. He said Sanaf was wearing his hood up and "possibly a Covid mask as well".

Ms Vine said: "Do you accept there is a similarity between what Mohammed Patel says about the men wearing facecoverings and what Saqib said in the 999 call about being pursed by men in balaclavas?"

He replied: "There's a similarity but no one was wearing a face covering."

Ms Vine said: "So Saqib was wrong, Mohammed Patel's wrong?" He said yes. She then asked if he knew why Patel would say something that might get him into trouble. He answered: "I don't know, I don't really know him."

Prosecution's turn to cross-examine Ammeer Jamal​


Mr Collingwood Thompson KC, the prosecutor, asked Ammeer Jamal what he thought was happening on the A46. He asked: "Did you ask anyone, 'What on Earth is going on?' Suddenly you're on the A46 and there's a Skoda, you say, that looked like it was going hit the Audi TT. What was the purpose of being behind the Skoda?"

Ammeer Jamal said: ""I don't know. I was a passenger in the car - I had no control over it."

He was asked: "You're expecting a normal night out. What was going?"

Ammeer Jamal said: "Trying to get the Skoda to stop. I don't know [why] because they were nothing to do with me. I remember shouting 'Slow down' or 'Chill out'.
 

No conversation about plans​

Ammeer Jamal was asked where people planned to go that night. He said: "Nothing was discussed in front of me. Me and Natasha and Sanaf were having our own conversations in the car."

Mr Thompson was asked if it wasn't natural to ask where they were going. Ammeer Jamal replied: "Not really, because we have spontaneous nights out. We could end up anywhere."


'Well I was stoned'​

Mr Thompson asked about a four-minute drive in the Seat before the group all went to Tesco. Ammeer Jamal has insisted he had no idea where they went on that four-minute drive.

Mr Thompson asked why that was and Ammeer Jamal said: ""Well I was stoned."

Mr Thompson asked: "You were in a sort of cannabis stupour, were you?" Ammeer replied: "I was just laid out in the back."

'We'd hung out in car parks before'​

Mr Thompson asked what Ammeer was thinking when they went to Tesco, followed by the Audi TT. He asked: "Didn't you ask Raees what you were doing in Tescos?"

Ammeer replied: "Well, we'd hung out in car parks before."

Mr Thompson asked: ""Did you ask why the Audi TT was there? The two cars were side by side, someone got out of your car. Did you say, 'What are we doing here?'"

Ammeer said he didn't.
 

Ammeer didn't notice the Skoda Fabia​

Ammeer was asked about the defendant's cars parking together and then separating before the Skoda Fabia arrived. He was asked why he thought the cars were separating and he said: "I just assumed someone might be coming to see them - someone in the TT."

He was asked if that didn't seem strange. He said: "It's not strange because we've had times in the past several cars have turned up and we've all gone out together."

He was shown the CCTV clip of the Skoda Fabia, containing the two crash victims, drive into the car park, near to where the Seat Leon was parked, pausing for a few seconds and then driving off.

He said again that he never noticed the Skoda at all.

It was a pursuit, Ammeer confirms​

Ammeer said he only spoke up about the dangerous driving a couple of miles ahead of the crash site. He said he began to feel "concern" for his safety.

Mr Thompson asked: "This was a pursuit of the Skoda, wasn't it?" Ammeer said yes and added: "But I didn't know why."

He said: "I was just going to tell the driver to slow down." He was asked if his cousin ignored him and he replied: "Yeah, that's what it looks like."
 

'Raees Jamal had told you earlier in the evening'​

Mr Thompson accused Ammeer of lying about not knowing what was happening. He said: "You knew perfectly well what was going on because Raees Jamal had told you earlier in the evening."

Ammeer said: "No that's incorrect." Mr Thompson said: "You went to meet this car to see if you could get the phone." Ammeer said: "That's incorrect, I didn't even know about the mobile phone."

No conversation about the crash​

Ammeer said that after the fatal crash there was no conversation about it that he could remember. Mr Thompson said: "It's a pretty dramatic event. You're pursuing a car up the A46 at pretty high speeds, you've seen it heading for the central reservation. Did you say you thought the car had crashed?" Ammeer said he hadn't.


No conversation about the wheel brace​

Ammeer said he saw Mohammed Patel put a wheel brace into the boot of the Audi after the cars returned to Leicester. He said he didn't make any comment to anyone about that, either.

He was asked about his Covid mask and why he put it on back in Leicester. He said "I was in a panic and wanted to block myself off from everyone and I looked in my pockets to see if I had a Covid mask and I did.

"I was quite traumatised and didn't want anyone to see my face."
 

More about the Covid mask​

Mr Thompson asked more about why Ammeer put on a mask after getting back to Leicester. He asked: "You'd done nothing wrong and been an unwilling passenger to the events on the A46. Then when you get back you decide to cover your features? What were you scared of?"

Ammeer said: "I'd not done anything but I'd witnesseed something. I've not been in that situation and I don't know why I reacted when I did."

Mr Thompson accused Ammeer of putting he face mask on earlier and he said that wasn't true.

Mr Thompson asked if anyone else put on a face covering when they got back to Leicester. He said: "Some put their hoods up but I don't remember about face coverings."

Phone exchange​

Ammeer and others went to switch their mobile phones in the daytime after the crash. He said "legal advice" had been given to his co-defendants to get rid of their phones. Mr Thompson asked if he didn't think it was strange to have to switch phones when he'd done nothing wrong.

He said: "I did but I was panicking. I was scared."
 

Lies to the police​

Ammeer went voluntarily to the police station in Keyham Lane after learning the police had been to his house. Mr Thompson asked Ammeer about his comments to the police about not knowing what the investigation was about.

Ammeer said that he had gone to the police station intending to tell them what happened but changed his mind. He did not tell them he was on the A46 and said he had no information about where Raees Jamal and Rekan Karwan had been in recent days.

He was asked by Mr Thompson why he had chosen to lie. He replied: "I don't know why was lying. I was in so much shock. I was so traumatised."

Chasing the Skoda​

Mr Thompson asked Ammeer: "Were you not in the slightest bit curious about what was going on? Did you not ask, 'Why are we following the Skoda?"

He said: "I didn't think that. I didn't ask."

He was shown CCTV footage from outside the Bentley garage near Watermead Park, showing the three vehicles driving close together with the Seat Leon ahead and the Audi TT at the rear.

He was asked how that happened: "He said the Seat must have got in front. It must have overtook the Skoda." Mr Thompson said: "At any stage did you ask what was going on?"

He said: "I did think that but I didn't ask." He said no one else in the car asked Raees, who was driving, what was going on either.

​

 

“Manager wrong about passenger swinging wheel brace at Skoda's window​

Mr Lane told the jury that Ammeer told him that an occupant of the Seat, during the chase, was trying to smash the window of the Skoda.

Mr Kennon asked: "Did you ever see a wheel brace in the hand of the front passenger seat of the Seat?" He said no.

Ammeer Jamal said he only saw the wheel brace later in the evening.

Mr Kennon asked: "Did you see anybody trying to smash the window of any car that evening?" He said no.”


There’s absolutely no reason for the manager to lie about what he was told, surely?! So again, this is not looking good for credibility for anything he says..
 

More questions about special screwdriver​

A tool was found under the driver's seat of the Seat Leon by police. Ammeer has previously admitted that he had seen similar tools before in his work as an employee at Audi Leicester but he did not see that particular tool on the night of the crash.

Mr Thompson asked: "Did you fetch the tool from your house on the night in case force had to be used?" Ammeer said no.

He was then asked: "When you went home to go to the toilet were you asked to bring a face covering?" He said no, but that he had a Covid mask in his pocket

Chats with manager​

Ammeer has said he spoke to his boss about the incidents on the A46 and his boss gave evidence earlier in the trial.

Ammeer was asked why he spoke to his boss. He replied: "It was playing on my head. It was affecting my work."

Some of his boss's testimony has been disputed by Ammeer. Ammeer told the jury he did mention the wheel brace to his boss, saying he did see Mohammed Patel with the wheel brace. Mr Patel was in the Audi.

Ammeer's boss told the jury that Ammeer had claimed the passenger in the Seat Leon used the wheel brake to try to brake the window of the Skoda as they were following the Skoda. Sanaf Gulammustafa was the front seat passenger in the Seat Leon.
 

'He got his wires crossed'​

Discussing the manager's testimony, Mr Thompson said to Ammeer: "Sanaf was trying to get at the Skoda using the wheel brace, trying to hit the window of the Skoda."

Ammeer said: "No. He got his wires crossed."

'No, that's ridiculous'​

Asking about why the men were all in the Tesco car park, Mr Thompson said: "This was all about the force and the back-up if necessary to get the phone off Saqib." Ammeer said: "I didn't know about no phone."

Ammeer was asked again if he had fetched the screwdriver from home. He said: "No, that's ridiculous. I've never seen that tool before."

Mr Thompson said Ammeer had been asked by Raees to go along to help get the phone. Ammeer replied: "That's ridiculous. I wouldn't risk my career, my family and all that for someone I don't know."

Character statement​

A statement was read out from Ammeer's Imam at the mosque in Loughborough Road, Leicester. He said Ammeer's family was a "quiet, hard-working family" and that he taught Ammeer from the age of 10 and would see him about once a month at the mosque, up until the pandemic.

It said: "I would describe Ammeer as a quiet person who never got into trouble. He is not the kind of person who would want to cause harm to anyone."
 
Thanks for the updates @Hoolah

It would not really surprise me if someone was trying to smash the Skodas window while the chase was on.

Like a few others, Jamal is trying to give an impression that he was in his own little world not questioning what was a very dangerous situation.

IMO instead they were like a pack out hunting. Probably very vocal in both cars and excited as they were homing in on their prey.

God bless Jamals boss for giving his statement. Sometimes people are to scared to come forward.
 
LouTennant said:
Thanks for the updates @Hoolah

It would not really surprise me if someone was trying to smash the Skodas window while the chase was on.

Like a few others, Jamal is trying to give an impression that he was in his own little world not questioning what was a very dangerous situation.

IMO instead they were like a pack out hunting. Probably very vocal in both cars and excited as they were homing in on their prey.

God bless Jamals boss for giving his statement. Sometimes people are to scared to come forward.
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Yes, I'm sure the boss wouldn't have made that up about trying to smash the window. How scary, no wonder Saqib was terrified. I've recently got a car after a long time not driving in the UK and I think of this incident every time I'm on the motorway. I'm not usually driving over 80mph so imagining being hounded at over 100mph by 2 cars and now with someone allegedly wielding a wheel brace, is terrifying.
 
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