Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Legally Bland]

Your first paragraph has not, and will not, be covered, because he didn't do it.

RSBM & BBM.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post, but are you really convinced of his innocence?

Would really be interested in your reasoning.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

WhatsApp also won’t deliver when it is switched to airplane mode and it doesn’t have to be switched off to not deliver a message.
As to wether a phone can be traced when switched off, the official answer that you will be given is no it can’t be traced when switched off but the only comment that I will make on that is anything is possible

I was trying to think of the most likely scenario.

As far as I'm aware, in any normal situation, if your phone is turned on and you have Whatsapp installed and data coverage, a message will be delivered to your Whatapp whether you read it or not.

If it's turned off then it won't be. I have actually tried this (though admittedly it was probably a while ago. My experience is as reported elsewhere. When the phone I was sending a message to was off I got the 1 grey tick (message sent but not delivered) on the sending phone.
Then when I turned the recipient phone on, the sending phone then showed the 2 grey ticks (message delivered - but not read).

Incidentally, In her daughter's statement she said that her mum (Lindsay) 'always had phone signal when she was in the Coppice' (though I realise phone coverage doesn't necessarily mean data coverage).

Surely her phone has been tracked by the authorities? Even leaving out the 'clandestine tracking' methods you mention, if they have her phone number her phone can be tracked easily right?

Incidentally has anyone used a FitBit? I'm unsure of whether this data uploads to a server unless you specifically set it up to do so and or whether they all emit a GPS as standard.
As far as I am aware they can also be used as a 'step counter' only and also track without GPS.

How about a link to the 'FitBit' case?

 

[LucyRocket]

RSBM & BBM.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post, but are you really convinced of his innocence?

Would really be interested in your reasoning.

No not my opinion. Just stating the fact that according to his version of events there's no need to speculate on how he accomplished this, or if he could have, because someone else was responsible for this part.

I am not convinced either way on what I've heard so far @Legally Bland

 

[Legally Bland]

No not my opinion. Just stating the fact that according to his version of events there's no need to speculate on how he accomplished this, or if he could have, because someone else was responsible for this part.

I am not convinced either way on what I've heard so far @Legally Bland

Thanks, that makes sense. I obviously did misinterpret your post.

ETA: I'd be surprised if anyone was 100% either way at this point.

 

[LucyRocket]

RSBM & BBM.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post, but are you really convinced of his innocence?

Would really be interested in your reasoning.

I'd like to think he didn't do it. Whomever was charged I'd feel the same way. I'd find it hard to believe anyone did it. Because that would mean it didn't happen. But unfortunately, it did, and so someone is capable

 

[The Truth Is]

I'd like to think he didn't do it. Whomever was charged I'd feel the same way. I'd find it hard to believe anyone did it. Because that would mean it didn't happen. But unfortunately, it did, and so someone is capable

You would also like to think he wasnt capable of doing what he has admitted too aswell.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

So much of a muddle of non-evidence to wade through. That's what replying to this post has made me realise!

Ok, here goes. In my understanding....

Your first paragraph has not, and will not, be covered, because he didn't do it.

Phone numbers hitting off masts wouldn't give us any more information than we readily have, because we know where everybody was and at what times, this is not disputed.

A forensic botanist, Dr Mark Spencer, has given evidence. Google for details.

Apparently, in his first interview, the accused answered 'no comment' throughout. In the second interview, he produced a prepared statement which introduced the third party.

Opportunities to gather evidence at an earlier opportunity were definitely missed. Members of the public had concerns which they reported to the police, and those concerns were ruled out to be unrelated. The most obvious being that a member of the public saw the wheelie bin in-situ at the cemetery, an officer responded and said it wasn't important and authorised its removal to a storage facility. Lindsay's body was hidden 6 metres away. How much difference this will have made, we'll never know

Though I don't agree that he 'didn't do it' I agree with the rest.

The phone tracking could possibly have come in useful in finding where the attacker came into contact with the victim and a possible murder location in which to investigate. But that hope has long gone now.

I also agree that there has been a certain degree of (my words) case bungling which could end up being crucial.

The short of it is that there is no evidence to link the defendant to the actual committing of the murder, only the disposal of the body. So I presume that would end up being a 'not guilty' verdict and he'll be charged with lower level offences.

 

[The Truth Is]

Though I don't agree that he 'didn't do it' I agree with the rest.

The phone tracking could possibly have come in useful in finding where the attacker came into contact with the victim and a possible murder location in which to investigate. But that hope has long gone now.

I also agree that there has been a certain degree of (my words) case bungling which could end up being crucial.

The short of it is that there is no evidence to link the defendant to the actual committing of the murder, only the disposal of the body. So I presume that would end up being a 'not guilty' verdict and he'll be charged with lower level offences.

How do we know that there wont be anymore evidence to prove murder?

 

[Thelastleg]

I have always wondered this and how he could lift 70kg or thereabouts up and into a bin....

Sorry error

 

[Angleterre]

I do actually believe that he probably came out from the trees behind her and possibly got her maybe like a sleeper hold and possibly dragged her to the ground and then the severe force was used to kill her. I may be in the minority that believes that he was certainly strong enough to do this to a woman of her size. Just because somebody appears skinny doesnt mean they arent strong.

Regarding the idea of her shouting, if somebody pulls hard enough on your throat area, you wont be able to scream or even talk, you will just pass out. Also you mention about it being during the day and whether he would do that, yes totally he would, he moved a dead body on a Saturday afternoon in a bin and buried it during the day too. To me this explaination is way more plausible than the story he come up with.

Its good to have difference of opinion and this what makes the forum interesting to hear others views.

I said it was very risky
I didn’t say that it didn’t happen

 

[MusicalMonkey]

How do we know that there wont be anymore evidence to prove murder?

I did ask if the prosecution has any extra incriminating evidence if they would have disclosed this to the defence before trial.
As far as I'm aware that would be normal practice in order to push for a guilty plea thus avoiding having to go through a long trial.

I don't think it's usual to have bombshells dropped mid-trial unless it's new evidence that comes to light. Though it happens all the time in 'the movies'.

Though as I said, it was more of a question than a statement.

 

[Angleterre]

How do we know that there wont be anymore evidence to prove murder?

You won’t know until the prosecution rests their case

 

[The Truth Is]

You won’t know until the prosecution rests their case

Ok thanks, i wasnt sure if there was a certain "framework or timeframe" as to when the evidence is concluded. Because a few feel that there wont be anymore incriminating evidence i thought this might be the case.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

*** IMPORTANT QUESTION ALERT ***

To those of you that think The Defendant didn't murder Lindsay.

Who did? What is your theory?

 

[Legally Bland]

Ok thanks, i wasnt sure if there was a certain "framework or timeframe" as to when the evidence is concluded. Because a few feel that there wont be anymore incriminating evidence i thought this might be the case.

I think it's just based on the opening statement. They don't have to reveal everything they have, but they're setting the narrative so will most likely include the most convincing evidence.

It's generally a good indicator of what evidence the prosecution has,

 

[LucyRocket]

*** IMPORTANT QUESTION ALERT ***

To those of you that think The Defendant didn't murder Lindsay.

Who did? What is your theory?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Let me guess. The current reboot is on at the cinema right now?

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, March 3rd:
*Trial continues (Day 4) (@ 10:30am UK) – UK – Lindsay Birbeck (47) (from Huncoat; last seen ~ 2:30pm on Aug. 12, 2019 & walking towards Accrington on Burnley Road @ 4:06pm on CCTV; found Aug. 24, 2019 in the area of Accrington Cemetery on Burnley Road) - *16/now 17 year old arrested (8/27/19) on suspicion of murder & on charged (8/31/19) with murder. Plead not guilty. Remanded to custody.
Trial began on 2/25/20 with jury selection. Trial started on 2/26 with opening statements. Trial expected to last to 3/13 at the Preston Crown Court. Mrs. Justice Amanda Yip will be presiding judge. No court on 3/6/20. Jury: 11 women & 1 man. No court on 3/2.
The Judge has told the jury that the defendant has a moderate learning disability & suffers with ADHD & autism & finds communication more difficult than other of other people of similar age.
Jury selection (2/25/20) & Trial Days 1 & 2 (2/26 & 2/27/20) info reference post #993 here:
Found Deceased - UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #2
2/28/20 Friday Day 3: Today the jury will hear evidence about the discovery of Lindsay Birbeck’s body & from a Home Office pathologist. Her Honour Mrs. Justice Yip said these are matters that are ‘not in dispute’ between the prosecution & defense. The jury are about to be taken through a document with ‘agreed facts’. Prosecutor Simon Driver has told the jury that the timeline of events & CCTV compilations are ‘accurate unless otherwise stated’ & not challenged by the defendant. Defense barrister Mark Fenhalls QC said ‘many matters the defendant has no knowledge of.' The jury heard statement how dog walker Morgan Parkinson called the police on August 24, 2019 to say he found a body. A statement from PC Robyn has been read out to the jury, who arrived at the scene. Prosecutor David McLachlan QC said the medical evidence to be presented by Home Office pathologist Dr Naomi Carter. She told the jury the cause of death was ‘neck injuries’. Defense barrister Mark Fenhalls QC cross-examined Dr. Naomi Carter. The jury heard evidence from forensic botanist Dr Mark Spencer who attended Accrington Cemetery on August 28 - four days after Lindsay’s body was found - and examined her grave. The jury were shown images of the plastic sheeting found both at the cemetery & the defendant's home address. Evidence from forensic specialist Helen Jones echoes that of Dr Spencer's - that the plastic found at Lindsay's grave was indistinguishable from that found at the defendant's home address. The Judge has decided to adjourn early for lunch and resume the trial promptly at 2pm. The jury have been told that there are still 26 pages of agreed facts to go through today. The defendant was not in the court dock this afternoon as the trial resumes. Defense barrister Mark Fenhalls QC said he does not need to be present to hear the ‘agreed facts’ between the prosecution & defense. Detective Sergeant David Bowler read a statement from Crime Scene Investigator Alison Baldry. Shown pictures of Lindsay's grave. DNA on bin matched Lindsay. The jury were shown a picture of a pair of gloves that were recovered from Accrington Cemetery. Tests show that DNA found on the gloves belongs to both the defendant & Lindsay.P rosecutor David McLachlan QC said the ‘agreed facts’ have now been concluded. Court will be no sitting on Monday March 2 as the Judge has another commitment & the trial will recommence on Tuesday March 3.

 

[Mumrahh]

Morning.... Is this still an active thread or will there be a new one today?

 

[Kaykedi]

14 4444444443444444T544Q2

Morning.... Is this still an active thread or will there be a new one today?

This is the new thread #3 Mumrahh, so yes, active