GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 *arrest*

[Charlot123]

I think the "duty to help" is obligatory in most EU countries (certainly in my country).

This duty is usually limited to doing what is “reasonable”. In particular, a helper must not endanger their own life or that of others but should, at the least, include alerting the emergency services.

Here is an interesting article. “Duty to rescue” applies to many countries, but not to UK. “In the UK we are not liable for the casualty unless we are the cause of the casualty's injuries or we fall below our expected duty of care.”, says the article. I wonder if “unless we are the cause” could provide the loophole to still charge Mr. Nee?

First Aid & The Law Part 3: The Rest of The World — REAL First Aid

In the previous articles we looked at some of the legal instruments which protect individuals who attempt to help others. In this article we look at some of the differences in the legal situation in other countries.

www.realfirstaid.co.uk

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I wonder if “unless we are the cause” could provide the loophole to still charge Mr. Nee?

It means the direct cause.

Whatever Mr Nee is or whatever he has done, at the time he was in fear for his life.

His reaction to enter the property was no doubt spontaneous, on account of seeing the door open and seeing a means of escape.

The only person responsible for this crime is the man who pulled the trigger, we can't start apportioning blame on others in such circumstances.

If people choose not to help others in need it is a reflection on the society we live in. To change society you have to give people, from childhood, a sense of duty and being prepared to step in and help those in need.

For whatever reason I stop for anyone and anything....people and animals. Maybe I just like being where the action is.

Whereas, I once came a real cropper when I came off my bike on a roundabout....cars were driving around me....no one stopped and I was pretty cut up....bleeding heavily. I finally managed to get up and hobble home to live another day

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I am pretty surprised at this to be honest.
It’s worrying.

All it means is they are paying decent solicitors.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

All it means is they are paying decent solicitors.

It means the police have all the evidence they can muster regarding the suspects involvement at this time and that it is insufficient for charge.

The quality of the solicitor has no bearing on the quality of the evidence.

A solicitor can only advise their client about their options in the light of the evidence put to them.

1. To answer questions
2. To submit a prepared statement
3. To answer 'no comment' to questions
4. A combination of the above

 

[Eloise]

The problem is not in the mother - I am not used to shooting sounds, either, I wonder if she took them for something else? The problem lies in the criminal Nee, who ran, bringing in his crimes, and his heroin dealings, and the assassin targeting him, into the poor woman’s house. And then he left in an Audi, and the wounded woman and her dead child were not taken to the hospital. There should be some laws, even in liberal GB, to slap him with for it. Unlawful entry, or something stronger. (Nothing for leaving them, I checked - if it were Germany, with duty to help laws, he could be charged, but not in Britain).

I didn't say she was the problem. I'm totally sympathetic to her. I wasn't victim blaming at all. Of course it's 100% the fault of the perpetrator(s).
I've heard gunshots down my street before... my instinct was to make sure everything was completely shut and hide! I'm sure that's probably the normal instinct but I can absolutely imagine having a brain fart one time and thinking it was something else and maybe checking for some reason... if I did that and someone busted in and killed one of my kids I can assure you that as much as I'd be 100% a victim and it would be my fault, I'd have survivor guilt to the end of my days. It would be an incredible mental burden on top of the grief you'd feel. I'm feeling terribly sorry for her, not blaming her at all.

 

[Charlot123]

I didn't say she was the problem. I'm totally sympathetic to her. I wasn't victim blaming at all. Of course it's 100% the fault of the perpetrator(s).
I've heard gunshots down my street before... my instinct was to make sure everything was completely shut and hide! I'm sure that's probably the normal instinct but I can absolutely imagine having a brain fart one time and thinking it was something else and maybe checking for some reason... if I did that and someone busted in and killed one of my kids I can assure you that as much as I'd be 100% a victim and it would be my fault, I'd have survivor guilt to the end of my days. It would be an incredible mental burden on top of the grief you'd feel. I'm feeling terribly sorry for her, not blaming her at all.

Oh, no way do I think you are blaming her, @Eloise! I just wonder if she, like myself, grew up without guns around. Later, I even went to the rifle range, but it is so loud that it feels different, I’m sure. Once, recently, I was driving and heard the sound and wondered, was it shooting, or was it fireworks, or something else? I am thinking, it is Britain, shooting is still not commonplace, perhaps the mom didn’t recognize the sound?

As to the rest, I am merely angry with the criminals who bring their gangster activity into the houses of peaceful citizens. And the ones who start shooting in the middle of the street, being, obviously, very bad marksmen.

 

[Caroclaud]

The kingpins must be really annoyed at the shooter. He’s a terrible marksmen, obviously fired quite a few shots, but they did not hit the target who was literally just walking along the street at first. Plus shot an innocent child and fled the scene leaving the main target still alive and being able to be a threat of becoming an informant.

And now the attention of the police and press all over them.

Can’t figure out how the black Audi immediately is was able to scoop up Nee and take him to hospital, how was it at the scene so quickly, like it was tailing Nee?

Also surprised it did actually take him to hospital, because it’s revealed the entire operation.

 

[Dotta]

Sniffer dogs in action

Police with dogs search streets near where Olivia Pratt-Korbel died

Dozens of officers from the anti-gang Matrix squad arrived on the road in the Dovecot area of Liverpool for painstaking searches lasting several hours.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

The kingpins must be really annoyed at the shooter. He’s a terrible marksmen, obviously fired quite a few shots, but they did not hit the target who was literally just walking along the street at first. Plus shot an innocent child and fled the scene leaving the main target still alive and being able to be a threat of becoming an informant.

And now the attention of the police and press all over them.

Can’t figure out how the black Audi immediately is was able to scoop up Nee and take him to hospital, how was it at the scene so quickly, like it was tailing Nee?

Also surprised it did actually take him to hospital, because it’s revealed the entire operation.

I think the guys in Audi were not of the level to make strategic decisions. Nee could have been in the car with buddies, then got out (for example, to buy papers or whatever), then shooting started, during which “good friends” stayed in the car, and afterwards they picked him up and took to the hospital. Why? They were afraid of vengeance of his relatives if he died, perhaps?That route, that day must have been somewhat familiar (Nee could be delivering his product nearby), since the killer knew where to hide and when to step out and shoot. (This is important, as you can not be standing in a balaclava amidst a street for too long. JMO.) Also, one wonders if Nee’s buddies were semi-bodyguards, or below him in rank, so after shooting, they assumed the role of his bodyguards?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I think the guys in Audi were not of the level to make strategic decisions. Nee could have been in the car with buddies, then got out (for example, to buy papers or whatever), then shooting started, during which “good friends” stayed in the car, and afterwards they picked him up and took to the hospital. Why? They were afraid of vengeance of his relatives if he died, perhaps?That route, that day must have been somewhat familiar (Nee could be delivering his product nearby), since the killer knew where to hide and when to step out and shoot. (This is important, as you can not be standing in a balaclava amidst a street for too long. JMO.) Also, one wonders if Nee’s buddies were semi-bodyguards, or below him in rank, so after shooting, they assumed the role of his bodyguards?

I think you are over thinking it!

There is nothing to support any of those assertions.

Accept that at the moment we know very little and hopefully as time goes by, we will learn more.

 

[Pinkizzy]

@Whitehall 1212 list the gangland areas in Liverpool

 

[Charlot123]

I think you are over thinking it!

There is nothing to support any of those assertions.

Accept that at the moment we know very little and hopefully as time goes by, we will learn more.

Nothing is known, but how much will be known?
Consider this, gangsters are not going to grass, and the whole neighborhood is scared to talk. Neighbors who commented to newspapers withheld their names, I noticed. Also, logically, if the killer was after Nee and the companion, he’d be waiting at one of their typical routes, and not for too long.
It is possible that after the killer followed Nee into Ms. Korbel’s house, the other guy called their buddies name in the Audi.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Nothing is known, but how much will be known?
Consider this, gangsters are not going to grass, and the whole neighborhood is scared to talk. Neighbors who commented to newspapers withheld their names, I noticed. Also, logically, if the killer was after Nee and the companion, he’d be waiting at one of their typical routes, and not for too long.
It is possible that after the killer followed Nee into Ms. Korbel’s house, the other guy called their buddies name in the Audi.

I guess the Audi didn't want to take Olivia to the hospital coz it was probably full of drugs

 

[Whitehall 1212]

@Whitehall 1212 list the gangland areas in Liverpool

Gangs can affiliate themselves to districts, postcodes, an estate or just a few streets.

Therefore the areas in which gangs predominantly operate their criminality are very varied. Neither are they confined to certain limited territory, often carrying out crimes in other areas of the same city or venturing beyond.

If you are keen to get a real understanding about gangs and gang culture then this publication would be a good place to start.

Understanding the psychology of gang violence

An exploratory study to add to the understanding of the psychological processes contributing to violence carried out by gang members.

www.gov.uk

 

[RusselSprout]

Family of drug dealer who burst into Olivia Pratt-Korbel's home lay flowers

THE family of a drug dealer who burst into the home of Olivia Pratt-Korbel while being chased by a gunman have laid flowers in her memory. Olivia, 9, was shot dead after Joseph Nee, 35, ran into he…

www.google.com

THE family of a drug dealer who burst into the home of Olivia Pratt-Korbel while being chased by a gunman have laid flowers in her memory.

 

[RusselSprout]

Two men arrested after murder of Olivia locked up alone to stop jail hit

TWO men arrested following the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel will be locked up alone in jail over fears gangsters will order a hit on them. Joseph Nee, 35, was detained for breaching his licence af…

www.thesun.co.uk

TWO men arrested following the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel will be locked up alone in jail over fears gangsters will order a hit on them.

 

[Charlot123]

I guess the Audi didn't want to take Olivia to the hospital coz it was probably full of drugs

In one word, probably, because they were scums and didn't care about anyone but their own. Picking up other wounded ones would mean, time and mess; it is also possible that they were still afraid of another attack, though.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Family of drug dealer who burst into Olivia Pratt-Korbel's home lay flowers

THE family of a drug dealer who burst into the home of Olivia Pratt-Korbel while being chased by a gunman have laid flowers in her memory. Olivia, 9, was shot dead after Joseph Nee, 35, ran into he…

www.google.com

THE family of a drug dealer who burst into the home of Olivia Pratt-Korbel while being chased by a gunman have laid flowers in her memory.

Let's hope that good can come from the loss of Olivia. Whatever people think this is a step in the right direction.

 

[Kiranerys]

The problem is not in the mother - I am not used to shooting sounds, either, I wonder if she took them for something else? The problem lies in the criminal Nee, who ran, bringing in his crimes, and his heroin dealings, and the assassin targeting him, into the poor woman’s house. And then he left in an Audi, and the wounded woman and her dead child were not taken to the hospital. There should be some laws, even in liberal GB, to slap him with for it. Unlawful entry, or something stronger. (Nothing for leaving them, I checked - if it were Germany, with duty to help laws, he could be charged, but not in Britain).

He absolutely should be charged IMO. I would hope for accessory to commit murder, but I guess the charge would probably be manslaughter if little Olivia was just collateral damage.

 

[Dotta]

Police 'scooped up' and ran with Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, in bid to save her

A coroner's court heard she was rushed to hospital in a police car and an officer carried her in as he covered a wound with his hand

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk