GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[Insp.Dots]

Without being crude - surely body parts in a bag would be err messy

depends.....they could be in various states, depending on size and storage. I doubt they were just in a carrier bag, if I think with a criminal mind, I'd have put them in a box of some kind and make out it's sealed DVD's or something electrical. This is assuming the other 4 didn't know what it was they had on their property. So many things we don't know that will no doubt make sense at trial.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I think you misunderstand.

Occam's razor is just the principle that the simplest answer is usually the correct answer.

Yes I know, I was referring to the 'gossip' and 'drama's' on certain Facebook media pages that have people saying one thing which then becomes another, ie Chinese Whispers, that end up muddying waters if reported in the mainstream media. It is also the reason our wonderful forum here has certain rules so that it doesn't become out of hand. FWIW I wasn't criticizing anyone on here.

 

[Wallace]

The charge is that they concealed body parts ------they are likely claiming they believed it to be other contraband -----so they have tagged on the OR For ANOTHER OFFENCE ---- The prosecution will attempt to prove they knew it was body parts, if the jury feels it wasn't proven, instead of not guilty and walking free, they will be guilty of the 'Other Offence' part which will be their defence to part A.

It secures a conviction that is all.


ETA - They are guilty of hiding something, this just covers a guilty verdict of either offence. Justice must be seen to be done. Lots of people go to jail for concealing weapons/drugs/other stuff and it would be a shame if these 4 weren't charged with at least that.

I read that end bit differently to most of those interpretations.

To be guilty of assisting an offender you need an offender and belief that they committed an offence.

I read it as them believing that NM was guilty of murder OR manslaughter.

 

[Wallace]

It was a question I had been thinking about, and wondered if this has been addressed. For some reason I thought CCTV was around the neighborhoods.

There is almost certain to be some CCTV in the area around most of the properties. It may be patchy and only on some private houses or businesses. It's hard to move more than a few hundred yards anywhere in built up areas of the UK without being filmed.

 

[mrazda71]

I read that end bit differently to most of those interpretations.

To be guilty of assisting an offender you need an offender and belief that they committed an offence.

I read it as them believing that NM was guilty of murder OR manslaughter.

Me too ... I dont think for a second that those 4 thought they were hiding stolen dvds, drugs or any such thing! The body of a 16 year old girl would look, feel, smell and move differently to a bag of stolen goods.

 

[Clio]

depends.....they could be in various states, depending on size and storage. I doubt they were just in a carrier bag, if I think with a criminal mind, I'd have put them in a box of some kind and make out it's sealed DVD's or something electrical. This is assuming the other 4 didn't know what it was they had on their property. So many things we don't know that will no doubt make sense at trial

BBM This I don't get at all.

So, a really close mate (and we don't know that's the case) gives you something wrapped up in boxes, possibly telling you it was some sort of contraband and asks if you could hide it for them because his house might be searched due to his step-sister being missing. OK, I can just about get my head round the fact that you might fall for that story.

Then your mate and his girlfriend get arrested for kidnapping. Wouldn't you wonder what was in those boxes? This is four people we are talking about so even if they didn't know before the arrest on the 28th Feb surely at least one of them would have looked at that point?

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Wallace]

BBM This I don't get at all.

So, a really close mate (and we don't know that's the case) gives you something wrapped up in boxes, possibly telling you it was some sort of contraband and asks if you could hide it for them because his house might be searched due to his step-sister being missing. OK, I can just about get my head round the fact that you might fall for that story.

Then your mate and his girlfriend get arrested for kidnapping. Wouldn't you wonder what was in those boxes? This is four people we are talking about so even if they didn't know before the arrest on the 28th Feb surely at least one of them would have looked at that point?

Doesn't make sense to me.

How about this:

Same as you said, mates asks to hide something, you ask no questions.

Then you find out about the sister going missing but it's too late you've already got the something in your shed.

Two options, wait it out or try to get rid. Later proves impossible due to Police being all over the place like a rash.

 

[Foxymona]

How about this:

Same as you said, mates asks to hide something, you ask no questions.

Then you find out about the sister going missing but it's too late you've already got the something in your shed.

Two options, wait it out or try to get rid. Later proves impossible due to Police being all over the place like a rash.

OR you have more involvement than a mere mate asking you to hide something situation. Therefore motive to conceal it all. IF my mate got arrested and I knew about it- I would be on the phone- maybe they were worried about losing custody of the child? Or maybe they are somehow further involved and therefore have to cover it. We are missing something here- remember how young they are as well. How so many people got mixed up in this is very very strange.

 

[Clio]

How about this:

Same as you said, mates asks to hide something, you ask no questions.

Then you find out about the sister going missing but it's too late you've already got the something in your shed.

Two options, wait it out or try to get rid. Later proves impossible due to Police being all over the place like a rash.

Assuming they do know what the something is. It's not quite the same as the Tia Sharpe case. Their house probably wasn't under such close police scrutiny so I am not sure why disposal was impossible but let's go with that.

So you wait, but for how long? Mates are arrested on 28th for kidnapping - first opportunity for them to come forward with an "OMG, I had no idea what we were storing" story but they didn't.

Mates were re-arrested on suspicion of murder on the afternoon of the 2nd March. Second opportunity to come forward with same OMG story but they didn't.

 

[Finkleyalex]

Hi all - newbie here! I've been following this case since the beginning but have only just been approved to post (thankfully as I'm beginning to do my partner's head in). I'm a legal professional but I have to say this case has shocked me - I have really struggled to think of motives. My first thought was that NM had sexually abused RW and tried once again but something went wrong (accidental asphyxiation?) and panicked. My alternate motive is that he was struggling for money and went to steal her laptop, tablet and iPhone but she got in the way so again he killed her in the moment. I am certainly surprised with the four that agreed to hide or dismember the body. I doubt we will know any more until the trial unfortunately.

 

[NSS]

Never underestimate the power (and irrationality) of group mentality or peer protection.

I know twins who are often in serious trouble together. They have both served jail terms. Only 1 of them ever instigates this bother, the other comes along to share the experience. 1 is a no job, scrounger who drinks and smokes weed, the other happily married, owns his home and has a lovely family. When I asked him why he does it, he says - he's my brother. Loyalty is often misplaced, and it makes perfect sense to them.

I still don't get it.

 

[ChuckieD]

How about this:

Same as you said, mates asks to hide something, you ask no questions.

Then you find out about the sister going missing but it's too late you've already got the something in your shed.

Two options, wait it out or try to get rid. Later proves impossible due to Police being all over the place like a rash.

Or option 3, call the police as soon as the penny drops if you're that innocent. Any idiot should realise that the police are going to be more concerned about a missing girl than a few dodgy DVDs, stolen goods or some other not-so-serious illegal contraband.

 

[NSS]

Oh and since most criminals don't think they are going to get caught, they get a bit blase about the nature of what you and I would find unusual. Doesn't matter what was in the boxes, they aren't planning on being caught.

Even when NM was arrested they didn't blink, they knew he wouldn't rat them out. None of them counted on the tenacity of law enforcement finding them without NMs help.

Extreme arrogance yes, unusual - probably not as unusual as we think.

 

[Foxymona]

Or option 3, call the police as soon as the penny drops if you're that innocent. Any idiot should realise that the police are going to be more concerned about a missing girl than a few dodgy DVDs, stolen goods or some other not-so-serious illegal contraband.

YES exactly- but doesn't that imply that maybe what they were involved with was more serious than stolen goods or minor drug dealing?

This could go all out awful, or they could be just completely caught in something unintended.

Your guess is as good as mine as to which...

 

[ChuckieD]

OR you have more involvement than a mere mate asking you to hide something situation. Therefore motive to conceal it all. IF my mate got arrested and I knew about it- I would be on the phone- maybe they were worried about losing custody of the child? Or maybe they are somehow further involved and therefore have to cover it. We are missing something here- remember how young they are as well. How so many people got mixed up in this is very very strange.

They are not that young, the twins are 29. The other two are 23. They are not kids and given the area they live in I imagine very street smart too.

 

[Crazy Mama]

So, my previous thoughts were that RW had been at some point in time molested in some way by NM. Now I will add a new theory as to why she might have decided to expose him. Perhaps she thought that he was molesting his own daughter and wanted to stop him before it reached a stage like she had endured. They had perhaps had an online altercation and he came to collect her devices, realizing that he should not have communicated online with her. Perhaps he convinced SH that if she did not assist him that she might lose custody of her daughter for not protecting her properly.... IMHO I believe that any mother with the threat of losing a child could do something this bad. I don't know if this is right or not, but I can feel something a
Along these lines.

 

[ChuckieD]

YES exactly- but doesn't that imply that maybe what they were involved with was more serious than stolen goods or minor drug dealing?

This could go all out awful, or they could be just completely caught in something unintended.

Your guess is as good as mine as to which...

Well, if that's the case prison is the best place for them. I personally think they're in it up to their necks. I think it speaks volumes that they were questioned for so long and one of them released. The one (who seems by what I have seen) to be the most removed from the group and the one I've seen several people sing the praises of as being a great guy.

It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

 

[skibaboo]

Bristol Rovers held a minutes silence for Becky today, before their game with Eastleigh, I just watched a short video clip :tears:

Can't post it on here as it is a personal video but it has been shared here Becky watts in the heart of the nation

 

[Foxymona]

They are not that young, the twins are 29. The other two are 23. They are not kids and given the area they live in I imagine very street smart too.

Yes you are right - I guess I am thinking more about J and she is 23 and a mom- and isn't it reported that she strongly denies any involvement? I have read comments that she is quiet and I remember being that age... I would be very influenced by my then boyfriend and he was not in any way shape or form violent- much more the free loving drug taking hippie type. I would be very uncomfortable if he called over with any illegal recreational drugs on him. But I trusted him that I was being paranoid and said nothing. I certainly wouldn't check his bags or anything- for all I know he could have had anything on him when he was staying in my house. I guess at that age I was a bit clueless and a bit too trusting and a bit unsuspecting- I can see how I could have been caught in a situation without having any real clue of what was going on by reason of completely stupidity.

 

[sar2them1984]

Me too ... I dont think for a second that those 4 thought they were hiding stolen dvds, drugs or any such thing! The body of a 16 year old girl would look, feel, smell and move differently to a bag of stolen goods.

That's also what I meant when I said earlier that body parts in bags would be messy.. you'd have remains of bodily fluids for starters.. no I don't know how they could think that they would get away with saying they didn't know what was in any bags they may have been given