GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[PrimeSuspect]

That would be the first thing I would do. I just don't understand why NM got several people involved, and why he didn't bury or put Rebecca's body parts in the river, for the life of me, I don't know how a person comes up with dismembering a person. I know people do this, but the thought, IMO, there is no way people didn't see something off with this guy. You don't wake up one morning and kill and dismember someone. I just keep wondering what the defense is going to be. And just saying, if it was an accident, something went terribly wrong, the thought would be to dismember?? This guy doesn't appear dumb, so all I can come up with is a drugged state to come up with this?

I agree, it takes a 'special' kind of person to 'go there', imo. It's about control more than just getting rid of a body.


Two recent cases in Oz, Marcus Volke, who killed and dismembered his girlfriend last year, her remains were found by police in garbage bags and cooking on the stove in chemicals. Neighbours noted awful smell coming from apartment.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Volke-found-at-Teneriffe-Bris&highlight=volke

A middle aged couple Lindy Williams and George Gerbic, only engaged 2 weeks. Something went wrong in relationship, Lindy killed George, dismembered him, only his half burnt torso was found, his head and limbs remain undiscovered.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Qld-**ARREST**/page4&highlight=lindy+williams


Both these cases involve intimate partners and a level of hatred and control that overrides their better judgement, that of being a rational human being.

JMO

 

[mrazda71]

Speaking from experience, there is something very very unhinged about someone who claims to have been in the armed forces when they in fact have never been or have had minimal experience of the TA or Cadets etc. My first serious relationship was with a good looking, hard working, charmer who told me he'd been in the army, I could write a book with all the army stories he'd told me. Long story short - shortly after the birth of our daughter we visited his estranged family for the weekend, while there, he got drunk and in the middle of the night pinned me to the bed by my throat because the baby woke him up ... turned out he never was in the army. He had been in the TA very briefly before getting kicked out and all his stories were actually ones that he'd heard from his uncle who was in the army.
There is a special kind of crazy that is in these kind of people and it's all about them, ego, image, power, control.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Even IF they thought they were hiding something minor it shouldn't of taken them that long to work out his step sister was missing and maybe that's what he's put in there shed because they haven't coughed straight away there guilty in my eyes.

Just a thought but, they were 12 years apart in age, didn't live in the same house, didn't have the same circle of friends (at least not if FB is any indication) and didn't even have the same last name. That being said, it's entirely possible those other 5 arrested didn't even know the missing girl they were seeing on the news was related to NM at all. Unless it's already been established somewhere that they (or some of them) did in fact know him well enough to know he had a step-sister 12 years his junior? This is assuming of course, at least some of them had no idea what they were storing for him, they would have had no reason to suspect whatever they were storing was the very missing girl on the news

 

[Alyce]

Just a thought but, they were 12 years apart in age, didn't live in the same house, didn't have the same circle of friends (at least not if FB is any indication) and didn't even have the same last name. That being said, it's entirely possible those other 5 arrested didn't even know the missing girl they were seeing on the news was related to NM at all. Unless it's already been established somewhere that they (or some of them) did in fact know him well enough to know he had a step-sister 12 years his junior? This is assuming of course, at least some of them had no idea what they were storing for him, they would have had no reason to suspect whatever they were storing was the very missing girl on the news

If that were the case, then NM would have had to give a different reason when asking the 4 of them to store stuff for him - which of course is not impossible to believe.

However, there was a lot of talk ( in places we cant mention ) about how everyone in Barton Hill knew the names of the arrested couple who lived at the address on CML, before the names were made public in MSM. That is probably an exaggeration, as these things often are.
But, given that NMs home on CML and the other suspects homes in Barton Court were only some 100 yards apart, I think it very probable that one or more of them had heard on the grapevine that NM and SH had been arrested. At which point, the suspicion about the boxes, bags or whatever kind of packaging they had been given, would surely arise.

 

[Kaly99]

When the police announced they had made a significant discovery they said:-

https://www.avonandsomerset.police....t-discovery-made-in-becky-watts-investigation

By the time they made this announcement they had already arrested the 5 additional suspects. So why was it necessary to be so explicit in their description. Why not just say her body has been discovered?

Could it have just been accuracy? It wouldn't have been true to say they'd found a body, and in fact they probably didn't know at that stage if there were body parts elsewhere. The wording of the "assisting an offender" charge made it clear what they'd found anyway.

Something that does occur to me reading your link is that the police said they received information indicating that Becky's body had been cut up, and that a search at the new location led to the discovery of body parts. That doesn't sound like information from next door neighbours peering over the fence and noticing bags in the back garden - that surely must have come either from the five arrested, or the two in custody.

 

[Tealgrove]

I think they knew exactly what they had. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that NM called and asked his "mates" for help. I think the lot of them decided where and how to conceal the body parts, helped load them in a vehicle and/or vehicles and then "stashed" the body parts until the "heat" was off. Somewhere along the line, somebody saw or heard something and called LE. I would also wager a guess that SH was a part of the conversation as this bunch tried to figure out what to do.

I'm guessing at this point and my theory is strictly MOO.

The one thing that I am of certain of is that a beautiful young girl is gone at the hands of a cruel and sadistic murderer. She is never coming back and her family and friends are heartbroken beyond belief. This is the one reality and the one thing we can be certain of.

 

[Wallace]

Just a thought but, they were 12 years apart in age, didn't live in the same house, didn't have the same circle of friends (at least not if FB is any indication) and didn't even have the same last name. That being said, it's entirely possible those other 5 arrested didn't even know the missing girl they were seeing on the news was related to NM at all. Unless it's already been established somewhere that they (or some of them) did in fact know him well enough to know he had a step-sister 12 years his junior? This is assuming of course, at least some of them had no idea what they were storing for him, they would have had no reason to suspect whatever they were storing was the very missing girl on the news

All these people live within a few miles of each other, the majority of them less than 2 miles apart. Add in Facebook and it's hard to believe that they were unaware of his family situation.

I doubt they socialised together and may not have been on talking terms but they would have been aware of each other.

 

[Wallace]

I think they knew exactly what they had. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that NM called and asked his "mates" for help. I think the lot of them decided where and how to conceal the body parts, helped load them in a vehicle and/or vehicles and then "stashed" the body parts until the "heat" was off. Somewhere along the line, somebody saw or heard something and called LE. I would also wager a guess that SH was a part of the conversation as this bunch tried to figure out what to do.

I'm guessing at this point and my theory is strictly MOO.

The one thing that I am of certain of is that a beautiful young girl is gone at the hands of a cruel and sadistic murderer. She is never coming back and her family and friends are heartbroken beyond belief. This is the one reality and the one thing we can be certain of.

All of them were held in custody for a very extended period of time. We can't know for certain but it's likely that they all no commented their way through every interview question. IF they did that it suggests that some time was spent talking about what they would do if caught. It would be very hard for 7 people to stick to the same story so my guess is that they took the fool proof option of saying nothing.

 

[Wallace]

I agree, it takes a 'special' kind of person to 'go there', imo. It's about control more than just getting rid of a body.


Two recent cases in Oz, Marcus Volke, who killed and dismembered his girlfriend last year, her remains were found by police in garbage bags and cooking on the stove in chemicals. Neighbours noted awful smell coming from apartment.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Volke-found-at-Teneriffe-Bris&highlight=volke

A middle aged couple Lindy Williams and George Gerbic, only engaged 2 weeks. Something went wrong in relationship, Lindy killed George, dismembered him, only his half burnt torso was found, his head and limbs remain undiscovered.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Qld-**ARREST**/page4&highlight=lindy+williams


Both these cases involve intimate partners and a level of hatred and control that overrides their better judgement, that of being a rational human being.

JMO

Perhaps less 'special' and more desperate.

A bunch of people lacking resources, imagination and perhaps intelligence painted themselves into a corner and froze there crippled by panic and paranoia.

 

[Beesknees]

I made this summary of all the posts by the police in their Facebook page. I think it is easier to follow all their appeals and when were they posted. Obviously didn't alter anything, of course, simply added the days of the week to help when we read.

https://www.facebook.com/avonandsomersetpolice?fref=ts

Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Sunday - 22/2 - 10:17

We need your help to find missing teenager Rebecca Watts, who has gone missing in the St George’s area of Bristol.

She went missing from the Crown Hill area on Thursday (February 19).

It is out of character for her not to contact someone if she is not returning home.


Monday - 23/2 - 18:35

Rebecca, known as Becky, and who is 16 years-old, was last seen at her home address on Crown Hill, St George, Bristol, at

11.15am last Thursday (19/02).

Today, Becky’s father Darren Galsworthy and grandmother Pat Watts made an appeal for her to come home

Becky is described as a white girl, aged 16, about 5ft 4ins of slim build with long reddish hair


Wednesday - 25/2 - 15:25

Our search continues today for missing Bristol teenager Becky Watts, who has been missing since Thursday morning.

Please help by sharing our appeal and urge anyone with information, no matter how insignificant it might seem, to come

forward to help us‪‬‬


21:21 "I would like to make a plea for everyone to get behind our online campaign to ‪#‎FindBecky‬‬" - DI Richard Ocone

Thank you to everyone supporting our search to #FindBecky - please keep sharing our appeals on Facebook and Twitter.

We’ve also set up a #FindBecky page on our website


Thursday - 26/2 - 10:54

Missing teenager Becky Watts - one week on

It's been a week since Rebecca Watts was last seen at her home in St George, Bristol.

Concern is growing for the missing teenager

18:14 Online campaign to find missing Rebecca Watts reaches 2 milllion people

DI Richard Ocone said: "We hope that this large online presence will lead to someone remembering something from the area or

days following Becky’s disappearance.

"We’re using every resource we can to try and find Becky. We have dedicated teams of officers on the ground and they’ve been

supported by the police helicopter.


Friday - 27/2 - 13:35

The search for missing Rebecca Watts has intensified again today as concerns grow for her whereabouts and safety

We are still treating this investigation as a missing person enquiry.

On Tuesday Detective Superintendent Liz Tunks, head of the Major Crime Investigation Unit, took over as the senior i

nvestigating officer (SIO) and is working closely with Detective Inspector Richard Ocone who has taken the role of Deputy SIO


Saturday - 28/2 - 10:31

We've been encouraged by the local communities' willingness and enthusiasm to help with the search for Becky.

Today we'll continue our search in the area.

We would urge those who are keen to help us find Becky to go into local shopping centres and flood them with 'Find Becky'

leaflets. In that way you can help us reach more people and increase the chance of finding someone who may have seen her

and who can help us

21:35 We have arrested two people in connection with the disappearance of Becky Watts from

the St George’s area

Detective Superintendent Liz Tunks, heading up the investigation team, said: "This afternoon we have arrested two people in

connection with the disappearance of Becky Watts on Thursday 19 February from the St George area of Bristol."

"Whilst the two people are being questioned our search for Becky continues unabated’’


Sunday - 1/3 - 15:09

A number of locations have now been searched within a 2km radius of Becky’s home address in the St George area of Bristol.

We can confirm that, at this stage, no significant items have been identified during these searches.


Monday - 2/3 - 10:19

We have been granted a further 36 hours to question the two people arrested in connection with the Becky Watts investigation.

Thanks for the ongoing public support. Anyone with information should call us now on 101, or contact us online:

12:14 Did you see or own a car connected to the search to ‪#‎FindBecky‬‬? We have seized a car

but need the public’s help in piecing together where it might have been. We are looking for information about a black Vauxhall

Zafira with the registration plate HY06 HYA, particularly between Thursday 19th February until Monday 23rd February. We're

keen to speak to anyone who saw the vehicle in the days either side of this too.We also need to speak to any previous owners

of this vehicle.

16:42 Man and woman arrested on suspicion of Becky Watts murder http://bit.ly/1B2asZV.

21:12 Tune in to BBC1's Crimewatch now for all the latest on our appeal to ‪#‎FindBecky‬‬


Tuesday - 3/3 -10:02

There have been significant developments in our investigation to find Becky Watts, with the discovery of body parts at a house

in the Barton Hill area of Bristol.

Detective Superintendent Mike Courtiour has made a statement to the media this morning. You can read the full update on our

website here: bit.ly/1FQUyCs

Five further arrests have been made on suspicion of assisting an offender. The man & woman arrested over the weekend

remain in police custody.

11:21 Becky Watts' mum, grandmother and brother have released a statement following the latest developments in

our investigation. Our thoughts remain with them at this terrible time.

15:33 Becky's dad Darren and step-mum Anjie have released a statement: bit.ly/1Eel4qP

"To receive such news as we did today about our dear daughter and step-daughter Becky is too much to bear.

15:34 Becky's grandfather John Galsworthy has made a statement on behalf of the Galsworthy

family:“We are heartbroken at what has been discovered overnight. We cannot begin to understand what has happened and

why.

“Becky was a wonderful daughter, sister, granddaughter and niece, and we cannot put into words how devastated we are

15:39 Officers have been given a further 24 hours to question the two people arrested on

suspicion of murdering Becky Watts


Wednesday - 4/3 - 14:14

Officers have been granted more time to question the 5 people arrested on Monday in connection with the Becky Watts

16:17 We have charged two people in connection with the Becky Watts murder investigation

19:27 We are aware of several false reports circulating on social media. Social media users,

please be aware that publicly accusing/naming people who have not been formally charged, could constitute an offence under

the Malicious Communications Act, which could result in a prosecution.

We would also ask people to remain sensitive to the fact that this remains a difficult time for the family. We would like to thank

the public for their support.


Thursday - 5/3 - 11:14

The two people charged in connection with the Becky Watts investigation have appeared in court this morning. Both have been

remanded in custody.

15:10 Officers have been granted a further 24hrs to question the 5 arrested on Monday in

connection with the Becky Watts investigation. All 5 remain in custody.


Friday - 6/3 - 13:00

Four more people have been charged in connection with the Becky Watts investigation. They are all due before Bristol

Magistrates' Court this afternoon.

15:00 The six people who have been charged in connection with the Becky Watts murder

investigation have all been remanded in custody. They are all due to appear at Bristol Crown Court on March 26th.

 

[Wallace]

I made this summary of all the posts by the police in their Facebook page. I think it is easier to follow all their appeals and when were they posted. Obviously didn't alter anything, of course, simply added the days of the week to help when we read.

Ticking the thanks button doesn't seem sufficient to recognise the work that's gone into compiling that post.

Very useful.

Thank you.

 

[jigzy]

Let's remember too that body parts weren't found at each and every one of the homes of those arrested, from what we do know and can hopefully assume, although cut up, it was all present (feel awful just thinking about this) and was all found in or at one home! So that's not one bag/box each which might be less suspicious. It was a whole human body. I fail to see how these people can not have known and at this point I'm not swayed at all by JP's wailing of innocence - don't they say 'jails are full of innocent people'

Do we know for a fact that it was all present?

 

[Wallace]

Do we know for a fact that it was all present?

The headline facts known about this are:

BW is dead.

NM, SH etc have been arrested and charged with various crimes connected to that death.

The timings of those arrests and the timings of the charges.

The locations searched.

That body parts were found AT the Barton Court Property.

That the Black Zafira was found outside a property approximately 6 miles from NM's home. That the Police appeared to be struggling to establish the ownership of the Zafira and it's movements over the days following BW's disappearance.

That the Police have estimated they have approximately 1200 items of evidence to process. They include two large bin or drum like objects.

What we definitely don't know:

Who was where and when at any point on the timeline from the night before BW apparently disappeared up until each of the arrests.

 

[MamaJoJo]

I'm trying to figure out something...well, lots of things, really, but I'll start with this one...

If we go with the idea that all of the body parts were found at one house (BC), where was Becky dismembered? At that same house? At a different house then moved to the BC house?

Or, was she dismembered and brought to multiple houses?

I was just thinking that, if she was dismembered at the same house she was found at, the charges against the four would be viewed differently. Gone would be the, "Dude, can you hold my stuff until I'm out of the hot seat?" line of explanation. In would be a more intimate involvement in the gruesome crime itself.

I believe the charge of Assisting an Offender could include dismembering a body, too. In the US, we have a specific charge for something like this: abuse of a corpse. Does the UK?

Assisting an Offender - section 4(1) Criminal Law Act 1967

"...the accused does any act with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of the principal offender..."

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_justice_offences_incorporating_the_charging_standard/#a35

Thoughts?

 

[Beesknees]

Is it possible that, if they will stick to the option of saying nothing like the disgraced Mark Bridger did, we will not know anything about the murder of Rebecca Watts' Remember that about the poor wee April almost nothing was aired... :banghead:

 

[jigzy]

The headline facts known about this are:

BW is dead.

NM, SH etc have been arrested and charged with various crimes connected to that death.

The timings of those arrests and the timings of the charges.

The locations searched.

That body parts were found AT the Barton Court Property.

That the Black Zafira was found outside a property approximately 6 miles from NM's home. That the Police appeared to be struggling to establish the ownership of the Zafira and it's movements over the days following BW's disappearance.

That the Police have estimated they have approximately 1200 items of evidence to process. They include two large bin or drum like objects.

What we definitely don't know:

Who was where and when at any point on the timeline from the night before BW apparently disappeared up until each of the arrests.

Thanks for your lengthy reply, but not sure how it answers my question though. I was wondering if it is a fact that all the body was present? I think this has not been disclosed by LE or MSM though I may be totally wrong.

 

[Bluey]

Do we know for a fact that it was all present?

I'm not sure. When the police first said they had found body parts I assumed not, but don't have any real reason for assuming that at the time.
When I thought about it, I decided they probably had found all of her, just based on there not being reports in the media of ongoing searches.
I've seen that there has been ongoing forensic type work at the particular addresses, but not seen any mention at all of other searches.
I'm assuming police would continue to try to find all of her, if it was the case they hadn't recovered all of her.

 

[Bluey]

Do we know for a fact that it was all present?

I'm not sure. When the police first said they had found body parts I assumed not, but don't have any real reason for assuming that at the time.
When I thought about it, I decided they probably had found all of her, just based on there not being reports in the media of ongoing searches.
I've seen that there has been ongoing forensic type work at the particular addresses, but not seen any mention at all of other searches.
I'm assuming police would continue to try to find all of her, if it was the case they hadn't recovered all of her.

 

[Wallace]

Thanks for your lengthy reply, but not sure how it answers my question though. I was wondering if it is a fact that all the body was present? I think this has not been disclosed by LE or MSM though I may be totally wrong.

No you haven't got it totally wrong.

I know it was a lengthy reply, I was trying to demonstrate that they are very few facts.

To answer your question directly, no we don't know if ALL the body was either present or recovered from BC.

We do know that enough was recovered to make a formal identification by her father possible.

 

[Beesknees]

Oh, the stereotypes... I'm here thinkingthat this case is so shocking because of the way it turned, because of the age of the victim, because of the way the body was violented, because the victim and the alleged murderer are Kinship by affinity and also because the person charged is handsome, common, not the usual stereotype of most of the murderers...