(slight threadjack) .... I missed this somewhere in all the threads here. Can someone elaborate ? Or direct me to another thread ?
Urs Von Aesch/Ylenia Llenard Connection?
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strach304
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A major problem with tracking possible suspects in Madeleine's case imo is that it is a major tourist area with strangers to the left and strangers to the right. Someone or something wouldn't be noticed as new to the area or out of place. How can LE possibly thoroughly investigate anyone there at that resort as guests or even employees? Especially with so many coming from different countries.
Anyone that followed the Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck cases remember police didn't originally investigate Devlin early on because they checked and he had no criminal record? Makes me grateful for the sex offender registry database that we have here but it still isn't helpful in any case where you have a perp that has never been caught.
Anyone that followed the Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck cases remember police didn't originally investigate Devlin early on because they checked and he had no criminal record? Makes me grateful for the sex offender registry database that we have here but it still isn't helpful in any case where you have a perp that has never been caught.
If it turns out that Madeleine is no longer with us, then for her sake I would rather it WAS her parents oversedating her. It would be a far kinder & gentler way to go than the alternative, which is unbearable to consider. Poor little Yienna.
If I were the police, I'd be jumping all over this one. Among other things, I'd be measuring the distance from the Swiss swimming pool to where Yienna was found and counting the minutes between her disappearance and the shooting of the man. Using these coordinates you can define a radius of search for Madeleine.
A guy who snatches children, assuming he's done it before, will have a modus operandi that's probably similar from one case to the next.
Horrible, horrible.
My heart breaks for these girls.
If I were the police, I'd be jumping all over this one. Among other things, I'd be measuring the distance from the Swiss swimming pool to where Yienna was found and counting the minutes between her disappearance and the shooting of the man. Using these coordinates you can define a radius of search for Madeleine.
A guy who snatches children, assuming he's done it before, will have a modus operandi that's probably similar from one case to the next.
Horrible, horrible.
My heart breaks for these girls.Actually I don't think it's weird at all. Mrs. Fenn heard Madeleine crying on Tues. May 1. She reported it to the resort managers at some point, but we don't know when. Giving the Ocean Club time to track down who might have left their children alone, I can see it taking until Thursday before they spoke to the parents.
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/13574
From the article: The 46-year-old received a bullet in the chest before fleeing his aggressor, and is currently in intensive care. Police believe he may have been one of the last to see the missing girl, but his health is too poor to allow him to be questioned.
This happened over a month ago, so you would assume that, unless he died, the shot man would be able to fill in some blanks. We should know more about this by now.
From the article: The 46-year-old received a bullet in the chest before fleeing his aggressor, and is currently in intensive care. Police believe he may have been one of the last to see the missing girl, but his health is too poor to allow him to be questioned.
This happened over a month ago, so you would assume that, unless he died, the shot man would be able to fill in some blanks. We should know more about this by now.
Kermode Bear
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Is it possible Kate, Gerry, and LE knew something about a pedo being in the area? (Quote)
Just one more reason not to leave your little children alone!!!!!!
Just one more reason not to leave your little children alone!!!!!!
AfterMidnight
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Could we maybe, possibly, hopefully, get past leaving the children alone - which EVERYONE agrees was stupid, wrong, horrible, criminal, etc., ad nauseum, and get on track to finding Madeleine? Is that too much to ask?
april4sky
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Agreed. If only!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have posted this question/comment on another forum and so I pose it here too:
I want to comment on something but before I do I would like to explain that the comment is not based on any desire to belittle the parents for not watching their children. I will leave such comments and possible judgements for after the case is solved. This comment of mine has to do with the case, as in what might have happened in a way.
Ok, my comment:
Someone posted saying ". . . It isn't like they hung a sign out on the door saying that the kids were in there alone, inviting someone to help him/herself to take any or all of them . . ." and although at first it might seem that is true, in fact they may have done just that very thing although possibly unintentionally.
One or more news reports stated they had left the children alone like that every night for about a week. If anyone was watching for such a pattern as an opportunity to get a child then this pattern of the mccanns was made to order for them. I wonder if this pattern figures in to what happened to Madeleine. Some burglars and some kidnappers case the area before doing their evil deed to learn when people are gone from home and to see if anyone has a trustworthy routine that sets a time they can depend on the adult people being gone from the home. And we know there has been one or more news articles that said someone was watching the place where the mccanns were vacationing. Is it possible that the mccann's routine being a sort of sale flag to a perp/s actions actually bolsters the theory of a kidnapping having taken place?
I want to comment on something but before I do I would like to explain that the comment is not based on any desire to belittle the parents for not watching their children. I will leave such comments and possible judgements for after the case is solved. This comment of mine has to do with the case, as in what might have happened in a way.
Ok, my comment:
Someone posted saying ". . . It isn't like they hung a sign out on the door saying that the kids were in there alone, inviting someone to help him/herself to take any or all of them . . ." and although at first it might seem that is true, in fact they may have done just that very thing although possibly unintentionally.
One or more news reports stated they had left the children alone like that every night for about a week. If anyone was watching for such a pattern as an opportunity to get a child then this pattern of the mccanns was made to order for them. I wonder if this pattern figures in to what happened to Madeleine. Some burglars and some kidnappers case the area before doing their evil deed to learn when people are gone from home and to see if anyone has a trustworthy routine that sets a time they can depend on the adult people being gone from the home. And we know there has been one or more news articles that said someone was watching the place where the mccanns were vacationing. Is it possible that the mccann's routine being a sort of sale flag to a perp/s actions actually bolsters the theory of a kidnapping having taken place?
AfterMidnight
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I agree with EVERYTHING, except "sale flag". I've said it before and now again, this was done for a reason and it wasn't a child sale or give away. I believe it was a sting of some sort, which sort remains to be seen.
Can you elaborate please? I have noticed your short comments before about a sting gone bad but did not catch the details of the theory (sorry.) I am willing to look at all theories. (I have no pet theory on this case so far and that may make my posts seem to first favor one theory and then another but I am trying pieces of the puzzle to see what fits where.)
AfterMidnight
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We all agree the parents were wrong, horrible, etc., to leave the children alone when they could have afforded a sitter; when they were warned about burglars; when it's just plain stupid and negligent to do so. OK so far? No offense, I'm trying to hang onto this myself.
WHY would 2 intelligent parents leave the kiddies alone like that when there was no reason? It wasn't money, I don't believe. And, if they had felt they were being stalked, all the more reason not to. WHY did they? Did they want their children taken? Did they sell one of them? Were they stupid? Ignorant? Selfish? I don't believe any of the foregoing. I believe there was a REASON they did what they did, leaving them alone, knowing full well all of the consequences. The only scenerio that makes any sense to me is they were working in conjunction with the police or someone, in order to entrap a pedophile/pedophile ring, using their children as bait. The problem is, the "sting" went wrong and Madeleine disappeared when that wasn't supposed to happen.
Don't ask me who or why 'cause I don't know. I only know that's the only scenerio that makes any sense to me, especially since that white van was parked by the apartment for a while. Don't tell me no one knew who owned it, and don't tell me there weren't informants in or near the resort.
Yeah, it is easier to believe the McCanns killed their child and hid her body. I almost want to believe that. It is the simplest explanation, but it doesn't explain their "apparent" stupidity in leaving the children alone. But, now that I think about it, Scott Peterson, wasn't the brightest light on the tree either.
'Round and 'round and 'round we go and where we stop, nobody knows.
First, Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts. I appreciate that very much.
(Those are real questions and not meant as argument or sarcasm.)
Question: What do we think, from news reports, that the parents knew at that time about being watched? From reading the reports I got the idea that much of that information was developed after Madeleine's disappearance and not before. From news reports, are we sure the parents were aware of the alleged watching and knew that it might be something sinister?
(Those are real questions and not meant as argument or sarcasm.)
Doc, I like your posts, thanks also for the links.
I think this is what happened, someone was keeping tabs- that or poor Maddie woke up and an opportunist seized the moment, the latter is against the odds I guess but god knows evil lurks on every corner just waiting.
Actually that's a good question. Does anyone know the answer as to owned vs rental of white vans in that area?
Von Aesch had been living in spain.
" . . .Von Aesch, originally from the Swiss canton of Thurgau, had been living with his wife in Benimantell, near Benidorm in Spain, since 1990. . ."
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22429527-12377,00.html
I also wonder about that news article where it said, ". . .A white van with Spanish number plates matching the description of Von Aesch's was seen parked for several days in front of the McCann's apartment. The van was not seen again after Madeleine disappeared. . ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Hans_Von_Aesch
Note: I added the bolding.
Did the numbers match? Did anyone write down the numbers? We need to refine the information search. How many white vans with spanish number plates are owned or rented in that area?
AfterMidnight
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From what I think I understand (and that is subject to evaluation) from what I've read is this: Kate felt they were being watched. And yes, it was developed AFTER Madeleine went missing. I don't believe anyone reported it prior to her disappearance because there wasn't much reason to.
Now, "are we sure the parents were aware of the alleged watching" - NO. We don't know anything from the news reports. We only knows what we read in the papers. Sad. Maybe I should follow my own advice, "don't believe everything you read". But. . . . .if we can't believe that do we have ANY facts at all, except Madeleine is missing?
All I see that we have with ANY foundation is a missing child, parents who left the kiddies alone, a white van, one dead man, one dead child, one injured man in the hospital (how's that guy doing, can he talk yet?), and someone else who collected the reward/ransom (same thing without the risk) money.
I ask myself, what do we have here? One parent gets fed up, offs the kid, tells the spouse, then they scramble around to hide the body in a frig/ice chest/makeshift grave/whatever and scream abduction. Then they have friends who set up a fund and they sell posters and bracelets on behalf of their missing child. If they were guilty, surely they would see the idiocy in that? Maybe not. Some of my doctors aren't that bright either and I have to give them clues to the latest treatments. At any rate, 25 dqys later they rent a car and load the body in the boot? A wee bit small, eh? Now we "hear/read" about body fluids, hair, whatever the traffic will bear, and we are supposed to believe it. Maybe. Maybe they dug up the body in the dead of night, under cover of a cloudy night when the rest of the world was sleeping and transported the remains to the trunk of the car where the hair fell out, body fluids leaked and left clues up the wazoo. Maybe the body was in a suitcase which had been sitting somewhere for a while and placed innocently in the trunk and leaked all over, but the hair wouldn't have fallen out of the suitcase so that presents a wee problem.
They couldn't have chopped her up or they would have (would they?) found traces of blood in the bathtub, the usual chopping place. If they froze the body it wouldn't have fit in the suitcase, unless, ahah, it was a big one like I had. She was a small child after all.
Next step is - where do you dump the suitcase? One that big is bound to cause problems. Some imbecile is bound to find it and open it. For weeks there was a large duffle bag in a small wooded area on the exit ramp of a major highway I travel. I wouldn't go near the thing. This case warned me off of that. I could spend the rest of my life explaining why I was interest in that "particular" bag. No thanks.
Tomorrow is another day. Hopefully I will have more brain cells to work with. I think Colomom ought to get in here with her thoughts.
Thank you for the kind words.
I also am grateful for you sharing your thoughts on the case.
". . .What we read in the papers . . ."
That's what I am asking. I was not meaning to ask for absolute proof it really was a fact. I only meant is there anything in the papers (I assume by "papers" you mean some news papers) that says the parents knew at the time they were being watched and that they thought it sinister? Or am I misunderstanding what you meant in that paragragh of your post?
Did I miss something somewhere? What reward/ransom money was collected?
Throught this case I have never heard of anyone collecting any reward/ransom money, there was mention of a couple who said they had information regarding Madelaine, but that turned out to be false.
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