Urs Von Aesch/Ylenia Llenard Connection?

[docwho3]

This is all interesting but how does that help us explore the connection between Urs Von Aesch and the Madeleine case?

How do stats on kidnappings vs parental involvement say whether or not the two cases are connected? We know that most of the time its parents when a child goes missing but in this thread we are discussing the alleged connections between two specific cases.

Does anyone know if the white van with spanish plates in the Madeleine case was or was not the same van as the one used by Urs Von Aesch.

Does anyone know what if any other vehicle he may have been driving when he was in the algarve on vacation during the time Madeleine was disappeared?

Does anyone know who his alleged partner was? and where that partner went?

 

[colomom]

That number differs with the one you posted this morning does it not?
It's plain to see that the majority of child murders are committed by family members..... BUT NOT ALL OF THEM. :banghead:

You don't like anyone that doesn't agree with you replying to your post do you? I'm not going to argue with you about this case. So go ahead and alert the mods. But as long as I'm allowed to post on this forum, I WILL post opinion and the opposing facts!

First thing, I think you will find that in the VAST MAJORITY of the time I do not respond, one way or the other, to responses to my posts. As much as I post there is no way that I would have time.

Please note the differences between "child maltreatment", "murders", "missing" and "kidnapping" in the statistics above. I never said that all murders where committed by family members, I just quoted the 60% VS 3% statistic as an explanation for my position regarding this case.

I also thought it important to expand that statistic that you mention: "A child goes missing every 40 seconds in the U.S, over 2,100 per day" as I believe that it is a misleading statistic without the additional number of 152,265 reports, which were actually considered endangered or involuntary, which is only 17% of the total number reported. To me, that is a HUGE difference.

I am very sorry if you felt like I was "arguing" with you, I was not. I also appreciate the opportunity to respond to any post with my opinion. I am sure you will find that I rarely attack the poster, just the post if I do not agree with it or if I feel it to be misleading or incorrect.

So please continue to post anything you would like and I will continue to post a rebuttal if I see fit.

 

[colomom]

This is all interesting but how does that help us explore the connection between Urs Von Aesch and the Madeleine case?

How do stats on kidnappings vs parental involvement say whether or not the two cases are connected? We know that most of the time its parents when a child goes missing but in this thread we are discussing the alleged connections between two specific cases.
~snip~

Doc,

I was responding to this post (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1693693&postcount=36) as requested. My #6 fit in with the topic of this thread. The statistics I quoted were called into question so I responded.

The statistics are definitely important with regards to this thread as they offer probabilities with regards to stranger abductions which is the topic.

Please, excuse if your post was not directed to me, you did not specify.

 

[docwho3]

Doc,

I was responding to this post (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1693693&postcount=36) as requested. My #6 fit in with the topic of this thread. The statistics I quoted were called into question so I responded.

The statistics are definitely important with regards to this thread as they offer probabilities with regards to stranger abductions which is the topic.

Please, excuse if your post was not directed to me, you did not specify.

I really appreciate your ability to find news links about this case so please don't take this as an attack on you (or anyone) but : The thread topic as created by a mod, christine, is titled "Urs Von Aesch/Ylenia Llenard Connection?" and thats a copy-N-paste. It does not ask the question whether strangers ever abduct shildren or how often that happens.

I know there is much contention between members over this case as it concerns whether or not the parents did the crime but there is a general thread for general discussions and also a thread for the case against the parents directly. I would be happy to even start a thread for discussion about how often a childs disappearance is caused by parents vs. a stranger abduction. I am a bit squeamish about saying someone can't post about something in a thread but I would hope we can all recognize that the threads are divided into topics to make discussion of a topic easier and that dragging side issues into a separate thread which is not about that specific issue can side track the discussion and if arguing about that side track point gets out of control it can make discussion of the original thread topic impossible for those who may want to stick to that topic.

 

[colomom]

I really appreciate your ability to find news links about this case so please don't take this as an attack on you (or anyone) but : The thread topic as created by a mod, christine, is titled "Urs Von Aesch/Ylenia Llenard Connection?" and thats a copy-N-paste. It does not ask the question whether strangers ever abduct shildren or how often that happens.

I know there is much contention between members over this case as it concerns whether or not the parents did the crime but there is a general thread for general discussions and also a thread for the case against the parents directly. I would be happy to even start a thread for discussion about how often a childs disappearance is caused by parents vs. a stranger abduction. I am a bit squeamish about saying someone can't post about something in a thread but I would hope we can all recognize that the threads are divided into topics to make discussion of a topic easier and that dragging side issues into a separate thread which is not about that specific issue can side track the discussion and if arguing about that side track point gets out of control it can make discussion of the original thread topic impossible for those who may want to stick to that topic.

....color me gone....

 

[christine2448]

I hate to move/delete all of this fantastic research, looks like everyone has made their points, HOWEVER I agree w/docwho3.

Listen up peeps, there is plenty of room for stats of missing, why the parents are responsible, what the parents did or didn't do on the other gazillion threads on this forum for Maddie.

Let's leave this thread for discussing Urs Von Aesch and Ylenia Llenard Connection.

You all have gone way off topic for THIS thread.

Let's get back on topic, k?

:blowkiss:

 

[Texana]

Ahem, that leaves me repeating my thought, which is that Von Aesch could very well have had inspiration from the reported Madeleine McCann abduction--and done a copycat crime on his own.

There's no evidence he's linked to any other missing children or abductions, which would have surfaced by now if that were so. (check out some of the boards here for how quickly the amateurs come up with connections--let alone the pros.)

There's no evidence he was actually near the McCanns at all, other than a white van. (unfortunately, that's a pretty common vehicle in any country.)

Between the reward and the publicity, any copycat abductor might well have been inspired to copy Madeleine's presumed abduction.

 

[Shazza]

Ahem, that leaves me repeating my thought, which is that Von Aesch could very well have had inspiration from the reported Madeleine McCann abduction--and done a copycat crime on his own.

There's no evidence he's linked to any other missing children or abductions, which would have surfaced by now if that were so. (check out some of the boards here for how quickly the amateurs come up with connections--let alone the pros.)

There's no evidence he was actually near the McCanns at all, other than a white van. (unfortunately, that's a pretty common vehicle in any country.)

Between the reward and the publicity, any copycat abductor might well have been inspired to copy Madeleine's presumed abduction.

Just a small thought on the van, could it have been a media van, they tend to hang around watching everymove people make when they are involved in a crime such as this.:twocents:

 

[docwho3]

Just a small thought on the van, could it have been a media van, they tend to hang around watching everymove people make when they are involved in a crime such as this.:twocents:

The van was seen before the disappearance not after. Why would media be researching a crime that had not been commited yet? (Sorry, that was not meant in a mean way.)

 

[docwho3]

Before I proceed: Thank you for sharing your thoughts and I hope you continue to do so.

. . .There's no evidence he's linked to any other missing children or abductions, which would have surfaced by now if that were so. . . .

". . .Von Aesch had a criminal record and was sentenced to 15 months in jail in 1961 after trying to extort ten thousand Swiss francs from a businessman in Zurich by threatening to kidnap his young son. He has sent him a letter saying "...how terrible must it be, to live through the day not knowing if your dear Geni will return from day care..." (translated) . . ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Hans_Von_Aesch

News reports also say he is being investigated for some missing children from the 1980's so I consider that evidence that it is a real possibility. And he has been already diagnosed as an infantile pedo if I remember the news article correctly. I believe this was from a previous case so I think there is actually evidence he was not performing a single never-before-done crime.

. . .There's no evidence he was actually near the McCanns at all, other than a white van. . . .

The news article says that police have determined he was there and I think one article I read said he was seen. (I will look for the link but I believe it was from links already available in this thread.) The white van near the mccanns apartment was never confirmed in the news article to have been the one belonging to Urs Von Aesch so I was never basing the connection solely on that one item.

. . .Between the reward and the publicity, any copycat abductor might well have been inspired to copy Madeleine's presumed abduction.

I agree and sadly it may happen again.

Now while I am on the subject of Urs Von Aesch:

I am concerned that he may indeed not have done the crime even if he was there and probably was watching Madeleine and her family's habits. What concerns me is that if he indeed did the 1980's crimes he had a certain cooling off period between kills and that time seems to have been longer than the time between Madeleine's disappearance and the switzerland crime. There are reasons that he may have changed the cooling off time or varied the timing and some of those reasons have been pointed out to me but it concerns me anyway.
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Source links for most of the above comments:
". . .Von Aesch had a criminal record and was sentenced to 15 months in jail in 1961 after trying to extort ten thousand Swiss francs from a businessman in Zurich by threatening to kidnap his young son. He has sent him a letter saying "...how terrible must it be, to live through the day not knowing if your dear Geni will return from day care..." (translated) . . ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Hans_Von_Aesch
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". . . The case has been investigated for links to the murder of several other young people in the 1980s. . ."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070915/ts_nm/swiss_missing_dc
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" . . .Police in Portugal were alerted after it was revealed that Von Aesch had been on holiday near the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine, four, was kidnapped.
Detectives in Switzerland believe that the critically injured man – who is aged 46 – has vital evidence over the abductions and was about to blow the whistle. . ."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/15806/Madeleine-lookalike-snatched-by-pervert
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". . .Portuguese police were alerted via Interpol to the potential link between Von Aesch and Madeleine. . . ."

" . . . Swiss police informed colleagues in Spain and Portugal after learning that Von Aesch lived near Alicante and was on holiday in the Algarve at the beginning of May.. . ."

". . . The pretty blonde-haired Swiss girl is of similar height, build and age to Madeleine.. . ."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/15806/Madeleine-lookalike-snatched-by-pervert

 

[Shazza]

The van was seen before the disappearance not after. Why would media be researching a crime that had not been commited yet? (Sorry, that was not meant in a mean way.)

Thanks Doc, I didnt take it in a mean way, no worries here mate.

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Doc, for that info.

There's a lot there to chew on and think about.