UT - Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 #7

[PickieChickie]

Yeah...I'm still having trouble with the strip bar idea. Seems like if he was going outside to check on the kids that would be very noticeable to others in the bar, yet no one mentioned that, did they?

I really don't think gum or mints would hide the smell, but then again my nose is pretty sensitive. I know someone whose nose doesn't seem to work as well as mine when it comes to smelling, though. I'm just saying mints wouldn't work for me...

Nobody asked these people if Josh went outside. Altoids curiously strong peppermint mints work! If it was Josh at that bar, I believe with every fiber of my being he would not have gone home without using Binaca or some strong breath freshener to mask his alcohol breath.

 

[dovebar]

It also depends on what he was drinking. Many closet drinkers stick to vodka.

 

[PickieChickie]

It also depends on what he was drinking. Many closet drinkers stick to vodka.

Precisely. I used to go down to the little country store every morning to keep my friend company while he opened up the store. I could NOT believe how many people bought a 1/2 pint of vodka every morning! It was astounding! And, if you watch The Blue Cap interview, Josh acts like he's been drinking! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's plastered. It just seems like his speech is very delayed, which could be an indication he's had a drink or is medicated. Also notice a 03:40 when he says, "I don't know where she's at" he gets uncomfortable and shifts his weight from one foot to the other and back. Also note he calls Susan "she" and never "Susan" or "my wife".

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8[/ame]​

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://espcgis.nesdis.noaa.gov/website/ssdsnow/viewer.htm

You can zoom in. There are no county boundaries, but the area is south-southwest of the Great Salt Lake. Seems to be clear of snow today, March 13.

Temperatures in SLC are suppose to reach 60 by mid-week.

Thank you RayO, I wonder if searches will start soon.

 

[sunnydee]

It also depends on what he was drinking. Many closet drinkers stick to vodka.

If you happen to believe the "witnesses" at the bar (which I have my doubts on the credibility of their memory) - then you would trust their memory that he drank 2 beers and a shot during the 2 1/2 hours he was there being totally obnoxious before he left and everyone was so happy that they applauded.

If you don't trust their memory of how long he was there, or what he was drinking - then you ought to have some doubt as to their ability to positively identify Josh as well. There were other people who were at the bar at the same time, who do not believe the person was Josh. The fact that the owner, who is one of the people who believes it was Josh, didn't have the intellectual curiosity to review his own security tape, or to hold on to it once he realize that a customer had called the police seems a bit odd. He also never checked the driver license scanner to confirm that they had scanned Josh's driver's license when he came in.

 

[PickieChickie]

If you happen to believe the "witnesses" at the bar (which I have my doubts on the credibility of their memory) - then you would trust their memory that he drank 2 beers and a shot during the 2 1/2 hours he was there being totally obnoxious before he left and everyone was so happy that they applauded.

Josh Powell has been reported to be an obnoxious person who never stops talking and who nobody likes so it wouldn't surprise me at all that people applauded when he left, even if he hadn't had one drink! Lol! Can you imagine an obnoxious, self righteous know-it-all with some alcohol in him?

 

[sunnydee]

Josh Powell has been reported to be an obnoxious person who never stops talking and who nobody likes so it wouldn't surprise me at all that people applauded when he left, even if he hadn't had one drink! Lol! Can you imagine an obnoxious, self righteous know-it-all with some alcohol in him?

There are more than just one obnoxious person in Utah though. We have had a lot of high profile criminals with extremely odd personalities.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

There are more than just one obnoxious person in Utah though. We have had a lot of high profile criminals with extremely odd personalities.

Sunny, any ideas why no big searches yet?

 

[sunnydee]

Sunny, any ideas why no big searches yet?

Just things that I've read on various message boards is that there have been searches - but it's not the kind of places where they would have your average citizens looking. Places like mines. I'm aware of some volunteer searches going on and they are coordinating with the police.

I can't exactly say why I feel the way that I feel, but I do get a sense that the police have an idea of where she might be. I don't think he will get away with it.

(Changing the subject here) Several years ago, a boy scout wandered off while on a camping trip in the mountains. He actually was with his father fishing, when he left to walk back to the campsite less than 1/2 mile away. He never made it back to the campsite. (Very odd case) - the boy scouts immediately started searching for him, and then they brought in professionals within a fairly short period of time with infrared equipment (less than a couple of hours). Then they had lots and lots of volunteers searching. They had the exact area, and started looking so quickly once he was known to be gone - and his body has never been found.

Unfortunately, we do have some terrain that is difficult to really search.

 

[hollyblue]

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...Dec-14-a-week-after-Susan-Powell-went-missing

"Finally, at 4:48 p.m. Jennifer Graves, Josh's sister, received a call from Josh. When she realized Susan was not with Josh, she informed him Susan was missing. While Josh said he was in town it took him nearly an hour to get home." ....

"Witnesses claim they saw Josh at the bar from about 2:30 p.m. to approximately 5 p.m. that afternoon."


...............................................................statements are from the above article.

It has been stated in several different articles that Jovanna had called and spoken with Josh. The times hasn't been consistent, I've seen it stated it was 3pm and I've seen it stated at 4 pm.

Whether Jovanna called at 3 or 4 pm - either time would place Josh inside the bar (if indeed he was the guy). Jennifer's call would also have been during the time some witnesses claim that Josh was in the bar.

I went back and forth with myself about the strip bar, but I now think it was not Josh. 1. the cell phone calls, and 2. I can't imagine Josh letting anyone take something of his. (the cell phone)

 

[hollyblue]

Just things that I've read on various message boards is that there have been searches - but it's not the kind of places where they would have your average citizens looking. Places like mines. I'm aware of some volunteer searches going on and they are coordinating with the police.

I can't exactly say why I feel the way that I feel, but I do get a sense that the police have an idea of where she might be. I don't think he will get away with it.

(Changing the subject here) Several years ago, a boy scout wandered off while on a camping trip in the mountains. He actually was with his father fishing, when he left to walk back to the campsite less than 1/2 mile away. He never made it back to the campsite. (Very odd case) - the boy scouts immediately started searching for him, and then they brought in professionals within a fairly short period of time with infrared equipment (less than a couple of hours). Then they had lots and lots of volunteers searching. They had the exact area, and started looking so quickly once he was known to be gone - and his body has never been found.

Unfortunately, we do have some terrain that is difficult to really search.

BBM I remember that incident---- and think someone nabbed him.

 

[sunnydee]

Dr. Fessel,

Locally a lot of people are feeling discouraged about the prospect of Susan’s body being found, or an arrest being made. Some people posting on message boards claim to have some insider contact (I definitely don’t) are saying the police have no good evidence.

I question this. Perhaps it is true, but the reason I question it is why did the judge “sealed” the search warrants? The local papers sued for the information, and the judge permitted their attorney to take a peek, but prevented the attorney from sharing the information with anyone else. What is with the privacy, if they had NOTHING?

I have faith in the police because this case is the reason men and women join the police force. They do not punch a time clock, and are constantly thinking the case on the job, off the job and in their sleep. They do not want the bad guy to get away.

Even after Mark Hacking confessed to murdering his wife, the policemen and women volunteered their time (city couldn’t afford to pay over time) to search the dump after midnight (when the temperature dropped) because the stench was too extreme during the summer heat. They used searchlights throughout the night while they combed areas as to not do possible further damage to Lori’s remains. Even the cadaver dogs could not handle the extreme smells and could only work for short periods of time, and needed days of rest in between. They eventually recover a total of 16 pounds of bone fragments and hair to give to Lori’s parents for a “proper burial”. They didn’t need to do this for a conviction, because Mark’s parents convinced him to plea guilty and avoid a trial. They did it because they felt it was the right thing to do.

I have faith in the West Valley Police department that they will solve this crime. I do not think Josh is smarter than their force.

 

[PickieChickie]

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...Dec-14-a-week-after-Susan-Powell-went-missing

"Finally, at 4:48 p.m. Jennifer Graves, Josh's sister, received a call from Josh. When she realized Susan was not with Josh, she informed him Susan was missing. While Josh said he was in town it took him nearly an hour to get home." ....

"Witnesses claim they saw Josh at the bar from about 2:30 p.m. to approximately 5 p.m. that afternoon."


...............................................................statements are from the above article.

It has been stated in several different articles that Jovanna had called and spoken with Josh. The times hasn't been consistent, I've seen it stated it was 3pm and I've seen it stated at 4 pm.

Whether Jovanna called at 3 or 4 pm - either time would place Josh inside the bar (if indeed he was the guy). Jennifer's call would also have been during the time some witnesses claim that Josh was in the bar.

Why are the times different in this article than the other articles? First she writes as a title that Josh was in the bar one week after Susan disappeared now she gives conflicting times.

The people who were interviewed on TV stated Josh was in the bar from 1 to 1 1/2 hours, that he arrived at 2:00 PM. which would make Josh NOT in the bar at 4:48. If he arrived home two hours after 4:48, that would bring him home at almost 7:00.

 

[sunnydee]

Why are the times different in this article than the other articles? First she writes as a title that Josh was in the bar one week after Susan disappeared now she gives conflicting times.

The people who were interviewed on TV stated Josh was in the bar from 1 to 1 1/2 hours, that he arrived at 2:00 PM. which would make Josh NOT in the bar at 4:48. If he arrived home two hours after 4:48, that would bring him home at almost 7:00.

PC, I remember Peterson saying that it took Josh two hours after being informed by neighbors who had called Josh that the police were looking for Susan and to get home. (I think he was aware of and was referring to Jovanna's phone call which some sources are giving to be 3 pm and other times 4 pm). So the 2 hours after the 4 pm call would be 6 pm.

 

[sunnydee]

PC - These are two local news sources who interviewed the club witnesses:

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/stor...lub-the-day-after/666gpASkxkaAnXq87NEPgA.cspx

He caused such a ruckus, that when he left the bar around 4:30 p.m. Sherman said, “Everybody applauded.”




http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9941987

Josh showed up to his home with the kids between 5:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. that evening.
The man strip club employees identified as Powell came in around 2 p.m. wearing a hat. He ordered two beers and a shot and left after about an hour-and-a-half to two hours. Burkholder says customers moved away from him and actually applauded as he walked out the door.


BBM

 

[sunnydee]

One more local source who interviewed witnesses:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700015183/Police-doubt-Powell-strip-club-story.html
There were a handful of people in the bar at the time, Cooper said, most of them regular patrons. This man was not.
The man was in the club between 4 and 5 p.m., Cooper said. Other patrons from the club have told KSL Radio that the man was in the bar about 2 p.m.

...................................
BBM There are a lot of discrepancies in their time frame (which would be a common occurrence with any witnesses, but could be further compounded by the fact that these witnesses are "regulars" in the afternoon at a strip bar. I think an attorney would be questioning how much have these witnesses been drinking themselves and a lot of other questions that may put into question the reliability of their memory.

 

[sunnydee]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14670710

The above link is not related to Susan's situation, but I hope you won't mind if I post it here for some thoughts. Susan and Josh were not seeking counseling through this agency. (I just wanted to make that clear)

The story is about treating "low level" domestic violence couples in treatment together. In the past, the victim was in treatment separately from the perp (if both were in counseling).

My concern is wouldn't Susan and Josh's relationship be considered "low level" as far as their criteria goes. It wasn't physical abuse - until she vanished.

To call verbal or emotional abuse "low level" seems to suggest a lower risk, and it doesn't seem to be the case. In some cases the first physical attack is the last - (and not in a good way).

I suppose in a way, it is good to have them labeling the behavior as "abuse" and not just tell them that they are in couples counseling.

 

[PickieChickie]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14670710

The above link is not related to Susan's situation, but I hope you won't mind if I post it here for some thoughts. Susan and Josh were not seeking counseling through this agency. (I just wanted to make that clear)

The story is about treating "low level" domestic violence couples in treatment together. In the past, the victim was in treatment separately from the perp (if both were in counseling).

My concern is wouldn't Susan and Josh's relationship be considered "low level" as far as their criteria goes. It wasn't physical abuse - until she vanished.

To call verbal or emotional abuse "low level" seems to suggest a lower risk, and it doesn't seem to be the case. In some cases the first physical attack is the last - (and not in a good way).

I suppose in a way, it is good to have them labeling the behavior as "abuse" and not just tell them that they are in couples counseling.

I suspect the majority of people who go to domestic violence counseling do so because they were ordered by the court, either because they battered their significant other, their child or another family member.

Most of the people who are ordered to attend counseling are resentful for being forced to attend, and in many cases, pay for the services they never wanted to begin with.

I would suspect the majority of couples who, on their own accord, seek domestic violence counseling will benefit from the services.

When a person has been found guilty of domestic violence, there is generally a restraining order in place which prohibits contact between the victim and perpetrator, so joint counseling is not practical.

It won't surprise me to learn the results of this study show that the majority of couples benefited from the counseling because they wanted to save their marriage by learning how to properly interact with each other.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that joint counseling will work when the participants are willingly attending the sessions.

 

[grayjay]

Time passes, often many years, where verbal insults or other assaults wear down self esteem of one or both partners in an abusive relationship, and maybe there are fights for control on various fronts, to the point where both partners feel they're getting a bad deal somehow. Meanwhile, a person who needs to learn new skills doesn't see it and refuses to participate of any sort of therapy, putting the problem entirely on the other person.

Because of these things, problems will escalate while the abuse is not yet attracting external attention. Unless the questions asked to each individual at the beginning of any process to evaluate what is going on help that person to see the nature and level of abuse and give it a name, I don't think these new approaches will reach these well-educated people.

I think for some reason couples like Susan and Josh lack basic communication skills. Otherwise, how is it that Susan is setting goals for Josh.

 

[PickieChickie]

Time passes, often many years, where verbal insults or other assaults wear down self esteem of one or both partners in an abusive relationship, and maybe there are fights for control on various fronts, to the point where both partners feel they're getting a bad deal somehow. Meanwhile, a person who needs to learn new skills doesn't see it and refuses to participate of any sort of therapy, putting the problem entirely on the other person.

Because of these things, problems will escalate while the abuse is not yet attracting external attention. Unless the questions asked to each individual at the beginning of any process to evaluate what is going on help that person to see the nature and level of abuse and give it a name, I don't think these new approaches will reach these well-educated people.

I think for some reason couples like Susan and Josh lack basic communication skills. Otherwise, how is it that Susan is setting goals for Josh.

Exactly. And I am most certain Susan's goal setting really pissed Josh off. Did you know his goal for her was that she wouldn't tell her mother things about him?