VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017

[GarAndTeed]

For the most part, you'll find that the big, ole giants, are, wonderful dogs and every bit as good, or better, companions, than small dogs. No dog is perfect though they all have their quirks. The thing is that these big, powerful dogs require a different type of owner. It really isn't the dogs fault. Little dogs bite too. A lot. It's just that no one usually dies from a Peekapoo attack. The dogs may have been giving off signals for weeks. There is a language barrier there, and neither of our species have perfected overcoming it.

I'm probably going to have some "overlap" in this post, but you make a great point! I grew up with large/giant dogs, and I agree with your point that they are often great companions for folks of all ages. Also, owners of ALL dogs (and cats, etc. for that matter) must be aware of their animals' signals and quirks, so to speak.
Our first St. Bernard, Gus, was an absolute sweetie. He let toddlers ride on his back (of course, whenever small children or strangers to him were around him, one of us was always there to supervise, just to be safe). Once when we were on vacation, we asked the neighbors across the street to take care of him; they were good friends, and were so familiar with Gus that they may as well have been family. Well, one day they sent their 16 year old girl over to feed & play with him. As us kids were younger, this girl wasn't as accustomed to Gus and his habits as the kids who were our peers were. So this girl is playing with Gus, using a rope-type tug of war toy; Gus was, naturally, trying to grab the toy from her. She wasn't aware (or just wasn't thinking) that he might unintentionally bite her, jump on her, etc. if he got too riled up; so at one point, when she was holding the toy just out of his reach, he lunged for it and bit her arm; her arm was broken. Of course, when we got back and discovered this, we were horrified. Fortunately, our neighbors (the father was a pediatrician, btw), not only didn't blame us or the dog, but admitted that they probably should have sent one of the younger kids with their sister, as they would have known immediately that Gus was getting too riled up, and would have ended the play session by giving him the toy and not further engaging him. Thank G-d for good neighbors!
Gus's story had a horribly sad ending, though. We had moved to another town; the house we moved to was in the country and had almost 3 acres of a fenced back yard; the fence, initially, wasn't flush to the house- you had to lead Gus to a gate a few feet away to put him in the yard. Shortly after we moved, my stepmother and us kids went on vacation, so my dad was alone with Gus. My parents stupidly didn't immediately have the locks on the house changed; the guy who'd been living there was a notorious drunk & gambler with at least 1 grown son who'd been busted for theft and assault. Well, my dad came home one night after having been out all evening (which was typical), and Gus staggered up to the driveway to meet him. Gus had one eye hanging by a thread, and was bleeding badly. My dad put him in the garage and immediately ran into the house (Gus couldn't have gotten to the house or driveway without the gate being opened). When my dad walked into the house, he heard footsteps and the sound of the back door being opened. There were muddy footprints all over the house, and my dad noticed that some things were missing (including 2 antique Russian dueling pistols that had been hanging on the wall). To make a long story short, these pr***s had gone through every room and robbed us blind, and had beaten Gus's face and head with the butt of a gun. Gus spent a couple days at the Vet's, and came home minus an eye. He died a couple of days later of a blood clot in his brain. Mind you, Gus had had NO WAY of getting at these dirtbags; they had to open the gate to get to him and assault him. Gus could have killed/ seriously injured either of them (the sheriff knew it was the son of the previous tenant and one of his buddies, but said he couldn't prove it, since the stuff they stole had likely already been sold...what a jerk!); but even when strangers approached Gus to beat him, he didn't attack. (I'm still enraged and heartbroken revisiting this anecdote).
As a postscript to all this, some friends from our former town had relatives who bred St. Bernards, and they gave us a puppy a day or 2 before Gus died. She was fantastic, and lived to be 15 (which is pretty old for a giant breed). However, her father was so mean and dangerous, he was put into a fenced enclosure until a Vet came out and shot him (he couldn't get close enough to give the dog an injection). Ah, the joys of inbreeding (sarcasm alert); which is another topic that, IMO, certainly contributes to dogs being messed up in many ways... and always bears scrutiny in "mean dog" cases. JMO.

 

[jamicat]

I am very much a dog lover. I spend a lot of time with dog lovers including those very much involved in rescue work at animal shelters.

To ignore the statistics involving fatal and serious dog attacks is foolish, in my opinions. Yes, the pitbulls dominate in sheer numbers. There are issues with IDing the breed, and yes, the breed is often mis identified as it is also under identified due to the very real stigmas that come with owning one.

I have not studied the statistics. There are a number of things that I can note in recent reported fatalities due to dog mailings. Most dogs in this country are mutts. The prevalence of mutts is not exactly known because people are not as likely to register these dogs as owners of pure breds tend to do. Also, it appears that pit bull mixes dominate the mutt world in certain areas and certainly in shelters. In my town, this is certainly the case. A lot of backyard breeding of pitbull mixes as well as dogs supposedly pure pit defined as one of the 4 breeds that comprise the category. Sadly, much of the pit ownership here is not good for the dogs in that the owners have trouble caring for themselves in terms of abuse and neglect of basic things, much less be able to care properly for dogs. Added to the problem is the status these pitbulls enjoy in these settings as dangerous dogs. I say “enjoy” because they are so exalted by these unscrupulous breeders and owners. I won’t go into the dark world of dog fighting that involves this breed because I have no idea if it’s prevalence, but I know it exists.

Though shelters, owners and vets will ID mixed breeds as non pits, so will the pit label often be the one picked out in any dog that causes an issue. A lab pit mix is given the pit mix description as are German Shepherd -pit mixes. Bear in mind there is no standard to ID a dog through DNA testing as s pitbull. The best that can be done is ID % of bull terrier or American bull dog in their make up, two of the breeds that comprise the pit bull designation. Those AKC recognized, bull terriers, by the way, are not common dogs and as purebreds not prevalent in the dog bite statistics

So, there are a lot of factors that put the pit bull in the hot seat of dangerous dogs. There are some strong truths in there that need to be taken seriously by anyone getting such dogs. But so it also is with other breeds.

I do not personally know anyone who owns a pitbull that is adopted to be a “tough” dog. And I also don’t know anyone personally whose pit attacked anyone. I do know people who have Had Rottweilers and German Shrpherds and husky type dogs, as well as mixes of those types that have had their dogs attack unprovoked. A lot of the smaller breeds I know are and were buyers too but those bites very rarely make the serious and fatal bite rosters.

So, I think anyone getting a pitbull dang well should be aware of the statistics like prevalence of the breed in mixed dogs and pure pits in terms of attacks. You are crazy not to do so. However, though not the full picture due to above circumstances, you need to have extra caution. For reasons that Tom Junod so eloquently lays out in his Dexter, his pitbull essay for Esquire magazine.

The focus on pitbull attacks here in this space is because the subject of this thread is a woman killed by her pitbulls. Whatever the mix her dogs may be, photos scream out pit.

Though I am pained and greatly saddened by what happened to her, and absolutely will take heed of the warnings this tragedy brings, I also see the problems that were thrown in the mix with a very young woman taking on two (significant in that she has a pack, multiple dogs) large dogs she could not physically control, put them in neglectful and abusuve condituons, one fog with a report of snapping and aggression from previous owner. Throw in a recent history of tumult in her personal life as well. I would not call it a “perfect storm” but a lot of high risk factors. And yes, the breed is significant to me in what happened

Same with the tragedy with Daxton, the little boy killed by two pits. Again someone who could not physically control the dogs with multiple dogs, though in this case no abuse or neglect apparent. There are lessons to be learned in these cases, and I am certainly taking heed.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I worked as a LE Park Ranger, and we commonly saw dogs (domestic and feral), coyotes and coywolves exhibit this 'guarding behavior' over their quarry - they're protecting their kill from other animals (and even Humans) who might want to steal the food from them. This aspect of K9 behavior is so common it wasn't even something that might have caught our eye! I can also add that among domesticated dogs, it seems to also have some correlation to those dogs that were not neutered. They were then driven by their urge to mate - even so far as jumping high fences, running across 16 lanes of highway traffic, etc...

I also had doubts about this story immediately as I read it. Why would the same dogs who kill someone stay around to guard and defend that same body? Red flags.

 

[JaneEyre]

I don't know if it's allowed, per TOS, and I don't usually use Wikipedia but, if it's correct, for year 2017, there has been one reported GSD fatality. I know that Pit lovers love their dogs, my Rotts are probably the second most despised breed, but I love them, and am willing to put in the effort, (my own parents were just horrified that I got another Rott pup b/c "there just COULDN'T be two good ones", I lucked out the first time.). I never tell anyone that my dogs won't bite. They have their own minds no matter how well I try to train them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#cite_note-155

I found at least 3 on Google last night.

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[JaneEyre]

￣
http://www.wymt.com/content/news/Woman-killed-following-dog-attack-466291063.html



Definitely NOT a model pit bull owner…

...

"assault 2nd degree, domestic violence, unlawful imprisonment"

A violent man probably created violent dogs. Domestic violence and animal abuse are nearly always connected.

This is why I say they are the most abused breed. Unfortunately, violent people are attracted to powerful dogs so that they can further perpetuate their violence and intimidation upon others.

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[JaneEyre]

You can do me a favor if you will, and link some of those attacks since I'm considering rescuing a German Shepherd and have a grandson. I did some research on German Shepherd attacks and didn't find a lot of information.

Thanks

I will link but I will say the same thing as I say about pits and any other dog. No breed is inherently violent. And what I've found in rescue is that dogs are no different from people in that you will find some individuals who are mentally unstable. You do your best in assessing and choosing a dog. And you address any issues quickly. If mental instability is suspected at any time, you get that further assessed, and rarely you might find yourself in the position where you have to make a heartbreaking decision.

Also, I'm going to suggest that if you aren't already in love with a specific breed, don't limit yourself to looking for the dog you want within such strict parameters. Talk to folks in rescue (even if you don't intend to get a rescued dog) about what personality traits you are looking for in a dog, because rescuers have experience with so many different breeds that they can suggest other breeds you haven't thought of. Personally, one of the things I love about rescue is matching just the right people and animal personalities. I know that this is key. I just spoke to my brother the other day because his son wants a lab but I know that generally speaking, a lab is a terrible match for my brother. I suggested other breeds and mixes that are better fits for them.

The last time I decided to adopt a dog for myself I went to multiple shelters, met with dozens of great dogs, but almost walked away without one because none were a match for my current situation. I might have pulled several of them for rescue because they were good dogs who would be great matches for other people, but they weren't for me. Then my shy girl came out from behind the other dogs just as I was about to turn away, and I found my match. I spent time with her there, asked to foster her, and then introduced her to my other dog and my cats. She was not what I had pictured myself coming home with, but there was something about her that I couldn't put my finger on at the time that told me she was the one. A couple weeks later I figured out what that was.

Anyway, I would be happy to exchange messages with you or anyone else about finding the right match. While I don't consider myself a dog expert, I have learned a lot after having hundreds of different dogs in my home over the years, having to teach many of them the basics, and ultimately matching them up to their people.

Dallas - German Shepherd maul baby
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ani...familys-german-shepherd-san-marcos-police-say

Concord police fatally shoot German Shepherd after it attacks 10 month old

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/0...pherd-mix-after-dog-attacks-10-month-old-boy/

German Shepherd kills 11 year old in Ireland

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8...fast-Hospital-Newtownabbey-Queens-Avenue-PSNI

Ohio - another baby mauled by a German Shepherd

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...dies-after-german-shepherd-bites-her.amp.html

And this is one who attacked a police officer and was shot by him.

http://www.newsleader.com/story/new...claims-investigator-killed-her-dog/699149001/

I didn't look beyond the first two Google pages in the search.

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[rsd1200]

I'm probably going to have some "overlap" in this post, but you make a great point! I grew up with large/giant dogs, and I agree with your point that they are often great companions for folks of all ages. Also, owners of ALL dogs (and cats, etc. for that matter) must be aware of their animals' signals and quirks, so to speak.
Our first St. Bernard, Gus, was an absolute sweetie. He let toddlers ride on his back (of course, whenever small children or strangers to him were around him, one of us was always there to supervise, just to be safe). Once when we were on vacation, we asked the neighbors across the street to take care of him; they were good friends, and were so familiar with Gus that they may as well have been family. Well, one day they sent their 16 year old girl over to feed & play with him. As us kids were younger, this girl wasn't as accustomed to Gus and his habits as the kids who were our peers were. So this girl is playing with Gus, using a rope-type tug of war toy; Gus was, naturally, trying to grab the toy from her. She wasn't aware (or just wasn't thinking) that he might unintentionally bite her, jump on her, etc. if he got too riled up; so at one point, when she was holding the toy just out of his reach, he lunged for it and bit her arm; her arm was broken. Of course, when we got back and discovered this, we were horrified. Fortunately, our neighbors (the father was a pediatrician, btw), not only didn't blame us or the dog, but admitted that they probably should have sent one of the younger kids with their sister, as they would have known immediately that Gus was getting too riled up, and would have ended the play session by giving him the toy and not further engaging him. Thank G-d for good neighbors!
Gus's story had a horribly sad ending, though. We had moved to another town; the house we moved to was in the country and had almost 3 acres of a fenced back yard; the fence, initially, wasn't flush to the house- you had to lead Gus to a gate a few feet away to put him in the yard. Shortly after we moved, my stepmother and us kids went on vacation, so my dad was alone with Gus. My parents stupidly didn't immediately have the locks on the house changed; the guy who'd been living there was a notorious drunk & gambler with at least 1 grown son who'd been busted for theft and assault. Well, my dad came home one night after having been out all evening (which was typical), and Gus staggered up to the driveway to meet him. Gus had one eye hanging by a thread, and was bleeding badly. My dad put him in the garage and immediately ran into the house (Gus couldn't have gotten to the house or driveway without the gate being opened). When my dad walked into the house, he heard footsteps and the sound of the back door being opened. There were muddy footprints all over the house, and my dad noticed that some things were missing (including 2 antique Russian dueling pistols that had been hanging on the wall). To make a long story short, these pr***s had gone through every room and robbed us blind, and had beaten Gus's face and head with the butt of a gun. Gus spent a couple days at the Vet's, and came home minus an eye. He died a couple of days later of a blood clot in his brain. Mind you, Gus had had NO WAY of getting at these dirtbags; they had to open the gate to get to him and assault him. Gus could have killed/ seriously injured either of them (the sheriff knew it was the son of the previous tenant and one of his buddies, but said he couldn't prove it, since the stuff they stole had likely already been sold...what a jerk!); but even when strangers approached Gus to beat him, he didn't attack. (I'm still enraged and heartbroken revisiting this anecdote).
As a postscript to all this, some friends from our former town had relatives who bred St. Bernards, and they gave us a puppy a day or 2 before Gus died. She was fantastic, and lived to be 15 (which is pretty old for a giant breed). However, her father was so mean and dangerous, he was put into a fenced enclosure until a Vet came out and shot him (he couldn't get close enough to give the dog an injection). Ah, the joys of inbreeding (sarcasm alert); which is another topic that, IMO, certainly contributes to dogs being messed up in many ways... and always bears scrutiny in "mean dog" cases. JMO.

BBM
I'm so sorry about what happened to your first dog. That so awful. You are correct on the inbreeding. It has shown to contribute to mental problems.

Another little dog story from me this Christmas morning, our little pit-mix died of natural causes at around 15, and my Dad wanted another dog to follow him around on the farm. He'd said he wanted a Lab. I got him a purebred Lab pup from a friend who raised a litter each year. He was beautiful. Loved to roam around the farm with Dad. Hated cats. His only bad quirk, but they had no cats around, but if he saw one out in the fields he'd go for it! I took care of him (we live just a mile apart) while they went on vacation every year. Never a problem. They already had the dog for several years when I remarried. I took my husband up (dog person) to get the drill on what to do while my parents were away. He'd not met the Lab. The dog emitted a low growl but we didnt' know it was toward my spouse. We thought he was getting older and just wasn't "feelin" it that day. Long story short, the two of us went up to take care of him and he growled and bared his teeth, and raised his hackles!! I was shocked! The only thing different was my spouse. I sent him away and the dog went back to normal! This was a first b/c my husband was like me, he'd never really had a problem with dogs. He was troubled by the dog's reaction to him. He wouldn't let me go care for him by myself after that, ever again, nor did I want to after that. He was not a dog that was well socialized, living on a farm, but he'd never done that before and only to my husband. My husband is missing most of arm below the elbow and we wondered if that set him off. The difference. We'll never know, b/c my Dad's Lab could only tell us, in his own way. He lived to about 15. All of my big dogs have lived to at least 13.

 

[Cryptic]

I also see the problems that were thrown in the mix with a very young woman taking on two (significant in that she has a pack, multiple dogs) large dogs she could not physically control, put them in neglectful and abusuve condituons, one fog with a report of snapping and aggression from previous owner. Throw in a recent history of tumult in her personal life as well. I would not call it a “perfect storm” but a lot of high risk factors. And yes, the breed is significant to me in what happened

Very well said.

All in all, I think a lot of these "perfect storms" regarding dangerous dogs are based on the fact that such dogs are a very inexpensive way to obtain status as a "tough guy" or "tough girl". Other tough status symbols are far more expensive. A 1% biker lifestyle involves finding a club, then finding enough money to buy a 1% percenter acceptable motorcycle.

I once knew a man who seemed to be a mirror image of this woman. He went through a divorce and then had employment difficulties. He then recreated himself as the "tough but wise" owner of dogs with a real potential to be dangerous. Pitbulls, however, had too much of a trailer park / ghetto / barrio image for him. Instead, went to another price point and bought a pair of Japanese Akitas.

The rest followed the same pattern as the woman. The man was not in good shape / health, and could physically control the dogs only with difficulty. They would respond to his verbal commands, but only to a degree. He gradually lost interest in the dogs. They were corralled in a back yard- except when he wanted to show them off to guests, including children.

The 'show and tells' included a lot of bunk about how he "knew the breed" and how he had a "mutual respect relationship with them"- yeah right. I later heard that both dogs died young from natural causes. I must say that I was relieved as the total situation was receipe for disaster.

 

[JaneEyre]

I do not get emotional about the pit bull debate, perhaps because I have never actually owned one. But having fostered several, I sometimes think that if I hadn't, I may actually have some of the same responses others do because of how the media portrays these dogs. I, too, would probably not look deeper at the peer reviewed scientific evidence that doesn't bear out what media reports tell us. And I am grateful for my experience with these dogs and that I can see both sides. (I really rage against irresponsible ownership.)

BSL did used to literally scare me, though, when I owned a chow and when I actively fostered dogs. I knew that if BSL against pits was ever passed anywhere near me, that it would be a slippery slope and just a matter of time before chows were added. And if anyone had tried to take or kill my girl, they would have had to take me out in a body bag first - honest to God. My girl had my back for 14 years and I could never allow anything to happen to her.

She was the first chow I owned, although not the first I had known in my life. What I learned about the breed is that they are one of the most different dogs you will ever meet, more like a cat in personality really, and so not for the average dog owner if you are looking for that typical exuberant dog behavior. They don't typically engage in face licking, dancing around with excitement, and general adoration of their humans. The chow is much too dignified to perform most of the dog behavior many adore. They aren't going to retrieve balls or probably even play with toys. They are stoic. And while they do adore their humans, you have to know the chow breed well to even recognize it. They are patient but stubborn.

My point is that I was very selective about the homes I adopted them out to because I didn't want people adopting them for their beauty and fluffiness without understanding and being prepared for the fact that these dogs are not very dog-like. I also had to be sure that their new owners could handle their stubbornness, power on leash, and recognize the particular types of cues they give their humans. I needed to set them up for success. Too many dog owners are set up for failure, honestly, by not being educated on whatever breed they choose, general behavioral modification, when to seek help/advice, red flags with any dog, and a realistic view of the time commitment as well as the physical and emotional needs of the dog they adopt.

It is my belief that in this country we have less of a pit bull or dog problem and more of a dog owner problem. People are not properly educating or preparing themselves for dog ownership.

Banning pit bulls would be like putting a band aid on a shot gun wound. It will not address the base of the problem. If we ban pits, any number of powerful breeds would take their place - Akitas, German Shepherds, Mastiffs, and even Great Danes if they became more affordable. There are a lot of breeds with the same capabilities and historical background in dog fighting and hunting large game like bears, but that are currently not easy and cheap to come by. But backyard breeding could easily flood the community with any of them if they were the next to rise in popularity.

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[rsd1200]

I will link but I will say the same thing as I say about pits and any other dog. No breed is inherently violent. And what I've found in rescue is that dogs are no different from people in that you will find some individuals who are mentally unstable. You do your best in assessing and choosing a dog. And you address any issues quickly. If mental instability is suspected at any time, you get that further assessed, and rarely you might find yourself in the position where you have to make a heartbreaking decision.

Also, I'm going to suggest that if you aren't already in love with a specific breed, don't limit yourself to looking for the dog you want within such strict parameters. Talk to folks in rescue (even if you don't intend to get a rescued dog) about what personality traits you are looking for in a dog, because rescuers have experience with so many different breeds that they can suggest other breeds you haven't thought of. Personally, one of the things I love about rescue is matching just the right people and animal personalities. I know that this is key. I just spoke to my brother the other day because his son wants a lab but I know that generally speaking, a lab is a terrible match for my brother. I suggested other breeds and mixes that are better fits for them.

The last time I decided to adopt a dog for myself I went to multiple shelters, met with dozens of great dogs, but almost walked away without one because none were a match for my current situation. I might have pulled several of them for rescue because they were good dogs who would be great matches for other people, but they weren't for me. Then my shy girl came out from behind the other dogs just as I was about to turn away, and I found my match. I spent time with her there, asked to foster her, and then introduced her to my other dog and my cats. She was not what I had pictured myself coming home with, but there was something about her that I couldn't put my finger on at the time that told me she was the one. A couple weeks later I figured out what that was.

Anyway, I would be happy to exchange messages with you or anyone else about finding the right match. While I don't consider myself a dog expert, I have learned a lot after having hundreds of different dogs in my home over the years, having to teach many of them the basics, and ultimately matching them up to their people.

Dallas - German Shepherd maul baby
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ani...familys-german-shepherd-san-marcos-police-say

Concord police fatally shoot German Shepherd after it attacks 10 month old

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/0...pherd-mix-after-dog-attacks-10-month-old-boy/

German Shepherd kills 11 year old in Ireland

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8...fast-Hospital-Newtownabbey-Queens-Avenue-PSNI

Ohio - another baby mauled by a German Shepherd

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...dies-after-german-shepherd-bites-her.amp.html

And this is one who attacked a police officer and was shot by him.

http://www.newsleader.com/story/new...claims-investigator-killed-her-dog/699149001/

I didn't look beyond the first two Google pages in the search.

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In the United States, until yesterday, in Bell County,Ky., there were 35 Pitbull related fatalities in 2017, alone. The Bell county woman made 36.

In the grand scheme of things with the number of pitbulls that are in this country that is a small number. When it happens though, it is usually quite horrible. We don't expect man's best friend to do this. Pit's were bred for a different reason than just about any other breed, and while us other big breed dog owners must be very cautious, the Rott (since 1978, 110 fatalities), nor the Akita (five deaths in 2017), the pit, is, currently, at the top of the big dog list in fatalities. We can't deny it's original breeding. Bull-baiting and fighting. We can't deny their tenacity as terriers, and we can't deny they are popular with people who probably shouldn't own one..., because they, like my Rott, do need an owner like you, your friends, and some of the folks who've commented on this board. They are still being bred for fighting and to be dangerous watch dogs. When I go to a sketchy area they're everywhere. It's just true. When a person picks one for a true pet, and goes to the shelter, they don't know which one they're getting. Not all can be rehabbed, and folks like most of my friends, would not have a clue how to go about that, or pick up on signs of things that are not good (oh, they're just being a dog, that what dogs do). Many don't even train their dogs to perform simple come, sit, stay, commands.

 

[rsd1200]

I do not get emotional about the pit bull debate, perhaps because I have never actually owned one. But having fostered several, I sometimes think that if I hadn't, I may actually have some of the same responses others do because of how the media portrays these dogs. I, too, would probably not look deeper at the peer reviewed scientific evidence that doesn't bear out what media reports tell us. And I am grateful for my experience with these dogs and that I can see both sides. (I really rage against irresponsible ownership.)

BSL did used to literally scare me, though, when I owned a chow and when I actively fostered dogs. I knew that if BSL against pits was ever passed anywhere near me, that it would be a slippery slope and just a matter of time before chows were added. And if anyone had tried to take or kill my girl, they would have had to take me out in a body bag first - honest to God. My girl had my back for 14 years and I could never allow anything to happen to her.

She was the first chow I owned, although not the first I had known in my life. What I learned about the breed is that they are one of the most different dogs you will ever meet, more like a cat in personality really, and so not for the average dog owner if you are looking for that typical exuberant dog behavior. They don't typically engage in face licking, dancing around with excitement, and general adoration of their humans. The chow is much too dignified to perform most of the dog behavior many adore. They aren't going to retrieve balls or probably even play with toys. They are stoic. And while they do adore their humans, you have to know the chow breed well to even recognize it. They are patient but stubborn.

My point is that I was very selective about the homes I adopted them out to because I didn't want people adopting them for their beauty and fluffiness without understanding and being prepared for the fact that these dogs are not very dog-like. I also had to be sure that their new owners could handle their stubbornness, power on leash, and recognize the particular types of cues they give their humans. I needed to set them up for success. Too many dog owners are set up for failure, honestly, by not being educated on whatever breed they choose, general behavioral modification, when to seek help/advice, red flags with any dog, and a realistic view of the time commitment as well as the physical and emotional needs of the dog they adopt.

It is my belief that in this country we have less of a pit bull or dog problem and more of a dog owner problem. People are not properly educating or preparing themselves for dog ownership.

Banning pit bulls would be like putting a band aid on a shot gun wound. It will not address the base of the problem. If we ban pits, any number of powerful breeds would take their place - Akitas, German Shepherds, Mastiffs, and even Great Danes if they became more affordable. There are a lot of breeds with the same capabilities and historical background in dog fighting and hunting large game like bears, but that are currently not easy and cheap to come by. But backyard breeding could easily flood the community with any of them if they were the next to rise in popularity.

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BSL scares me too. I don't know what I'd do if they tried to take my dog. I don't think that pits should be banned. I do think that spay/neuter should be a requirement , but , it's like firearms, we allow some pretty nutty folks to have firearrms, so we aren't going to stop unprepared, inexperienced, or just plain bad, owners from getting an aggressive dog. I don't think that pits are just out and out violent, I do think that they can be more aggressive than other dogs, in part, based on my own experiences from them. Maybe I'm biased because I know so many folks have had the aggressive natured ones. They were harder to handle and they did kill other folk's animals, and did attack my own small dog, in her own yard, and with glee, tail-wagging. After she got to safety the pit had to be physically pulled back b/c it was still trying to get to my little dog who was screaming in terror. These were not folks who got them to look like big shots either. Decent folks, just got the wrong dog. Were used to retrievers and such prior.

 

[JaneEyre]

BSL scares me too. I don't know what I'd do if they tried to take my dog. I don't think that pits should be banned. I do think that spay/neuter should be a requirement , but , it's like firearms, we allow some pretty nutty folks to have firearrms, so we aren't going to stop unprepared, inexperienced, or just plain bad, owners from getting an aggressive dog. I don't think that pits are just out and out violent, I do think that they can be more aggressive than other dogs, in part, based on my own experiences from them. Maybe I'm biased because I know so many folks have had the aggressive natured ones. They were harder to handle and they did kill other folk's animals, and did attack my own small dog, in her own yard, and with glee, tail-wagging. After she got to safety the pit had to be physically pulled back b/c it was still trying to get to my little dog who was screaming in terror. These were not folks who got them to look like big shots either. Decent folks, just got the wrong dog. Were used to retrievers and such prior.

I understand. I personally have a bias against hounds because I've seen so many that are cat killers and/or are generally mentally unstable. Knowing my own bias, I am particularly careful to stay out of discussions about them if I find that I can't be objective, which happens from time to time. Of course, even with this bias, I have worked hard to overcome it, and somehow continued to rescue hounds in need when I was still rescuing dogs. I would never own one myself, though, because of their prey drive.

My mom adopted a hound/lab mix without my knowledge. I do not entirely trust it with her cat, and I am generally ambivalent about the dog even after a year. It went after my dog out of the blue last night, so I am particularly unhappy with it this morning. Yet I am going to its vet appointment this week to be sure it gets everything it needs because my parents love the dog.

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[Trident]

I will link but I will say the same thing as I say about pits and any other dog. No breed is inherently violent. And what I've found in rescue is that dogs are no different from people in that you will find some individuals who are mentally unstable. You do your best in assessing and choosing a dog. And you address any issues quickly. If mental instability is suspected at any time, you get that further assessed, and rarely you might find yourself in the position where you have to make a heartbreaking decision.

Also, I'm going to suggest that if you aren't already in love with a specific breed, don't limit yourself to looking for the dog you want within such strict parameters. Talk to folks in rescue (even if you don't intend to get a rescued dog) about what personality traits you are looking for in a dog, because rescuers have experience with so many different breeds that they can suggest other breeds you haven't thought of. Personally, one of the things I love about rescue is matching just the right people and animal personalities. I know that this is key. I just spoke to my brother the other day because his son wants a lab but I know that generally speaking, a lab is a terrible match for my brother. I suggested other breeds and mixes that are better fits for them.

The last time I decided to adopt a dog for myself I went to multiple shelters, met with dozens of great dogs, but almost walked away without one because none were a match for my current situation. I might have pulled several of them for rescue because they were good dogs who would be great matches for other people, but they weren't for me. Then my shy girl came out from behind the other dogs just as I was about to turn away, and I found my match. I spent time with her there, asked to foster her, and then introduced her to my other dog and my cats. She was not what I had pictured myself coming home with, but there was something about her that I couldn't put my finger on at the time that told me she was the one. A couple weeks later I figured out what that was.

Anyway, I would be happy to exchange messages with you or anyone else about finding the right match. While I don't consider myself a dog expert, I have learned a lot after having hundreds of different dogs in my home over the years, having to teach many of them the basics, and ultimately matching them up to their people.

Dallas - German Shepherd maul baby
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ani...familys-german-shepherd-san-marcos-police-say

Concord police fatally shoot German Shepherd after it attacks 10 month old

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/0...pherd-mix-after-dog-attacks-10-month-old-boy/

German Shepherd kills 11 year old in Ireland

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/8...fast-Hospital-Newtownabbey-Queens-Avenue-PSNI

Ohio - another baby mauled by a German Shepherd

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...dies-after-german-shepherd-bites-her.amp.html

And this is one who attacked a police officer and was shot by him.

http://www.newsleader.com/story/new...claims-investigator-killed-her-dog/699149001/

I didn't look beyond the first two Google pages in the search.

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From your link https://www.dallasnews.com/news/anim...cos-police-say

"Father of baby killed by family’s German shepherd refuses drug tests, San Marcos officials say"

The child's father told investigators that he'd fallen asleep while his child napped in a baby bouncer, and that when he awoke 20 minutes later, he found the baby unresponsive and cold to the touch with obvious injuries, police said.

So, the father refuses drug and alcohol tests. It says "alcohol" further into the article. So, the father woke 20 minutes later. He didn't hear a thing, no dog growls, no baby cries, and the body was ALREADY cold? Kinda makes a body wonder on this one. Even so, if the dog did attack the baby, it needed to be put down, no ifs, ands, or buts.

From your second link https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/02...month-old-boy/

The dog bit the right side of the toddler’s face, resulting in a puncture and a laceration. The boy was taken to UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital Oakland with injuries that are not life-threatening, Burdo said.

In this one mom was out of the room. Further on in the article, it states that it is believed the dog was mixed, part Mastiff. That means it was a mix, not pure GS. Even so, if the dog did bite, it should have been put down. No dog should bite a child.

In this link, the third one:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/86...ns-Avenue-PSNI

No official cause of death has been confirmed, but as the victim was understood to have been with his dog at his home, it is being investigated whether the pet was the cause of the “lacerations”.

Also in the article it states that a man was being questioned, although no arrests had been made. This is an "interesting" IRISH case. I didn't have time to search further today.

Didn't have time to do this one yet http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/infant-dies-after-german-shepherd-bites-her.html

I'm bringing the appetizers for Christmas dinner and I'm late. OH, here's a link I ran into while reading the one I couldn't get to: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/29/prosecutor-no-charges-for-ohio-dog-attack-that-killed-baby.html

Two pit bulls removed from the home have been euthanized.

From your last link:http://www.newsleader.com/story/new...claims-investigator-killed-her-dog/699149001/

Investigator kills family dog, was in 'fear for his safety,' dept. says

"When the investigator exited his vehicle the dog immediately went after him in an aggressive manner biting at him and crawling."

This dog was on a lead between 2 trees in his own back yard and the police were there on a domestic violence call.

 

[Lilibet]

During my time on Websleuths, keeping an open mind and not making assumptions has been my go-to position most of the time. Threads like this one can challenge that position because some incidents are fraught with emotion and fear. They bring out a knee-jerk instead of a reasoned reaction. But listening to others and not ignoring their input, even when it challenges my personal reaction, is the key.

I think this thread has been amazingly educational in the midst of Bethany’s tragic death. As someone who hasn’t owned a dog in close to 40 years, and is cautious around large dogs, this thread has challenged my bias, informed me about the other side of the pitbull controversy and given me insight into the knowledge and feelings of owners of large dogs. I want to thank vmmking, rsd and jamicat in particular for your wise and balanced posts. Apologies if I left someone out, but you three were the most prolific , and clearly knowledgeable and very experienced. I appreciate everyone’s contributions though.

This is the wonderful thing about Websleuths. Surrounding a crime or tragedy are subjects that we explore and learn about. I’ve been on a number of suicide threads that have been equally informative, thanks to the input from suicide survivors and mental health professionals. I have much more empathy and compassion for those who choose suicide than I had before. I don’t like that choice, but I feel sadness rather than judgement.

And now, I have more empathy and compassion for those who are responsibly passionate about large dogs, including pits. I will never own one myself, but I get it. I will judge the owner, not so much the breed. I will still keep my distance though, because no matter how much I’ve learned, my fear isn’t gone because of the damage that can be done if things go wrong. But I hope that’s a more rational, rather than a knee-jerk decision now.

So thank you, one and all. :loveyou:

 

[rsd1200]

I understand. I personally have a bias against hounds because I've seen so many that are cat killers and/or are generally mentally unstable. Knowing my own bias, I am particularly careful to stay out of discussions about them if I find that I can't be objective, which happens from time to time. Of course, even with this bias, I have worked hard to overcome it, and somehow continued to rescue hounds in need when I was still rescuing dogs. I would never own one myself, though, because of their prey drive.

My mom adopted a hound/lab mix without my knowledge. I do not entirely trust it with her cat, and I am generally ambivalent about the dog even after a year. It went after my dog out of the blue last night, so I am particularly unhappy with it this morning. Yet I am going to its vet appointment this week to be sure it gets everything it needs because my parents love the dog.

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Same with us. We went every time and took care of my parent's dog, but, I never wanted my spouse to go near him again, after he hackled and bared his teeth, only to wait within earshot, for me, b/c I never trusted the dog again, even with me. I thought maybe he'd even gone senile. He was a big, healthy, but older, Lab, who could've done damage. However, my parents never really saw the significance that I did when I mentioned it to them. They always defended our little pit-mix too. Even when it growled at my mother.

 

[JaneEyre]

From your link https://www.dallasnews.com/news/anim...cos-police-say

"Father of baby killed by family’s German shepherd refuses drug tests, San Marcos officials say"



So, the father refuses drug and alcohol tests. It says "alcohol" further into the article. So, the father woke 20 minutes later. He didn't hear a thing, no dog growls, no baby cries, and the body was ALREADY cold? Kinda makes a body wonder on this one. Even so, if the dog did attack the baby, it needed to be put down, no ifs, ands, or buts.

From your second link https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/02...month-old-boy/



In this one mom was out of the room. Further on in the article, it states that it is believed the dog was mixed, part Mastiff. That means it was a mix, not pure GS. Even so, if the dog did bite, it should have been put down. No dog should bite a child.

In this link, the third one:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/86...ns-Avenue-PSNI



Also in the article it states that a man was being questioned, although no arrests had been made. This is an "interesting" IRISH case. I didn't have time to search further today.

Didn't have time to do this one yet http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/infant-dies-after-german-shepherd-bites-her.html

I'm bringing the appetizers for Christmas dinner and I'm late. OH, here's a link I ran into while reading the one I couldn't get to: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/29/prosecutor-no-charges-for-ohio-dog-attack-that-killed-baby.html






From your last link:http://www.newsleader.com/story/new...claims-investigator-killed-her-dog/699149001/



This dog was on a lead between 2 trees in his own back yard and the police were there on a domestic violence call.

Oh I know. There is nearly always more to the story than simply that a dog became vicious. That is part if the point about the discussion of dog bites and fatalities.

And often common thread is either sketchy owners or past abuse, although in some cases a dog has simply shown signs of a mental imbalance that was not addressed properly or taken seriously enough. Both come down to the humans who make the decisions here. (We'll never know, but I have to wonder if Bethany missed some red flags, particularly with Pac-man.)

While I see definitely positive changes in how animals are kept and treated in this country from when I was growing up, there is still plenty of room for improvement. Some of this can be addressed at the local level of government.

We need to get officials to understand that requiring decent living conditions and demanding a certain level of responsibility in dog ownership is not just to improve the lives of "dumb beasts," but to improve the safety of our communities. Getting them to take animal abuse seriously is important as well. It's never a surprise to me when violent mass shooters like the one in Texas have a background of both domestic violence and animal cruelty. A lot of evil perpetrated against humans in this world could be prevented if we recognized and took more seriously abuse against animals.

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[JaneEyre]

During my time on Websleuths, keeping an open mind and not making assumptions has been my go-to position most of the time. Threads like this one can challenge that position because some incidents are fraught with emotion and fear. They bring out a knee-jerk instead of a reasoned reaction. But listening to others and not ignoring their input, even when it challenges my personal reaction, is the key.

I think this thread has been amazingly educational in the midst of Bethany’s tragic death. As someone who hasn’t owned a dog in close to 40 years, and is cautious around large dogs, this thread has challenged my bias, informed me about the other side of the pitbull controversy and given me insight into the knowledge and feelings of owners of large dogs. I want to thank vmmking, rsd and jamicat in particular for your wise and balanced posts. Apologies if I left someone out, but you three were the most prolific , and clearly knowledgeable and very experienced. I appreciate everyone’s contributions though.

This is the wonderful thing about Websleuths. Surrounding a crime or tragedy are subjects that we explore and learn about. I’ve been on a number of suicide threads that have been equally informative, thanks to the input from suicide survivors and mental health professionals. I have much more empathy and compassion for those who choose suicide than I had before. I don’t like that choice, but I feel sadness rather than judgement.

And now, I have more empathy and compassion for those who are responsibly passionate about large dogs, including pits. I will never own one myself, but I get it. I will judge the owner, not so much the breed. I will still keep my distance though, because no matter how much I’ve learned, my fear isn’t gone because of the damage that can be done if things go wrong. But I hope that’s a more rational, rather than a knee-jerk decision now.

So thank you, one and all. :loveyou:

Thank you for this. I think we learn more when we seek to understand rather than to simply get others to understand us.

I already understand the fear and bias because I had a fear of big dogs prior to rescue. When I was in high school I had written a short and incredible piece for my English class on a killer pit bull, which is what I believed them to be at the time. Around the same, I was often around a friend's massive Rottweiler, which I continued to be terrified of no matter how many times I met him and only got licked.

I was a cat person. But I hated that fear, and as a young adult I went to a sanctuary I trusted and volunteered for and asked to go in the dog yards where they lived in small packs of 3 to 4. The first one had a chow and 3 other big dogs in it. The second one I went into had a pit bull and 2 other big dogs. I let go of my fear and let myself experience the love and excitement of good dogs. I exited those yards a completely different person, and one who would devote the next 15 years to rescuing large dogs who found themselves on death row, often simply because of their breed.

So really, I do understand fearing certain dog breeds. But now, I also understand the dogs themselves, and how people often turn them into monsters, sometimes without trying to or even realizing it.


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[JaneEyre]

Oh I know. There is nearly always more to the story than simply that a dog became vicious. That is part if the point about the discussion of dog bites and fatalities.

And often common thread is either sketchy owners or past abuse, although in some cases a dog has simply shown signs of a mental imbalance that was not addressed properly or taken seriously enough. Both come down to the humans who make the decisions here. (We'll never know, but I have to wonder if Bethany missed some red flags, particularly with Pac-man.)

While I see definitely positive changes in how animals are kept and treated in this country from when I was growing up, there is still plenty of room for improvement. Some of this can be addressed at the local level of government.

We need to get officials to understand that requiring decent living conditions and demanding a certain level of responsibility in dog ownership is not just to improve the lives of "dumb beasts," but to improve the safety of our communities. Getting them to take animal abuse seriously is important as well. It's never a surprise to me when violent mass shooters like the one in Texas have a background of both domestic violence and animal cruelty. A lot of evil perpetrated against humans in this world could be prevented if we recognized and took more seriously abuse against animals.

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Let me give one example that's been running through my mind about there being more to the story than that a dog just snapped.

Last July in Anderson County, KY, a pit bull bit a kid and animal control came in to get the dog. I'm not sure what the outcome was for the dog, and the kid recovered. But the media, of course, led with the whole pit bull attack thing. While watching one of the news casts, several of my friends caught the same thing I did - the interview with one of the neighbors, which to us revealed the "smoking gun" in this case.

He was talking about how sweet the dog always seemed and how shocked he was because - get this - the kids were always all over the dog, basically riding it around the yard like a danged pony.

I hope you all see the problem here. Terribly irresponsible parents were allowing their 3 or 4 kids to torment this poor dog daily, and even the neighbor just didn't get what he had said. To him, this seemed normal and acceptable, just like these pictures people pass around on Facebook, thinking it's cute to see the toddler reaching the sink by standing on a big dog's stomach. Me and my friends see these same pictures and think it's not cute, but dangerous and stupid. You cause an animal enough pain, at some point after warnings are ignored, it may lash out.

We never would have known this about the dog if that neighbor hadn't mentioned it in passing in the interview or if the newscast had not aired that portion of the interview. In the 30 second blurbs we get to see, I don't believe we are getting anywhere close to the full story 99.9% of the time. And if it's a "bad breed" involved, we don't even question that a dog just snapped. Well, I don't really believe that most dogs in bite incidents just snap. I think that often there are warnings and red flags that go unnoticed or ignored. And we cannot trust the media to press for details because the details themselves make for much less sensational stories and headlines. All they want for these stories are clicks.

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[Bernina]

I think that anyone who has read through this entire thread would hopefully walk away with a bit of knowledge when it comes to getting a dog, or any animal.

Any breed needs to be carefully assessed as to it's basic development......ie., is this breed a companion, tool, both, or neither?
If you have the opportunity to interact with the dam and sire, are they well mannered, stand offish, and/or aggressive?
If you get from a breeder, call the animal control in their area to see if there's been any complaints.
God bless you if you decide on a rescue, but out here in the boonies, displaced city folk tend to pass on their problems when their "awesome Herd dog" slaughtered all their chickens or their expensive "Livestock Guardian dog" gutted a calf. Here we have a leash law, "open range", so you better keep your property fenced. Dogs have fenced ACREAGE to run, dig, and play on. Dumping them at a rescue is just passing on a disaster.

I've had one total cluster **** of a rescue about 9 years back with a wolfdog (wolf hybrid). I've had wolfdogs since 1995. I KNOW when to walk away.........but, the owner in Texas sedated the dog, at the halfway point in New Mexico the WD showed major aggression towards all the handlers (sedation again), we picked her up in Albuquerque (that was a trial by fire) and got her home. Within 18 hours, she had savaged my forearm (my male wolfdog rolled her before I even knew I was bleeding), attacked both me and my ex BF, stalked us and the other animals here..........and no sanctuary had any openings. Tough call but we weren't going to pass her on. Seriously, she scared the bejesus out of us, and my male placed himself between us. We got the back story on her in the next few weeks and it was HORRIFIC. Inbred (father/daughter), lone survivor of a litter of 8, rescued, rehomed, red flagged at 2 Petsmart's (Michigan & Texas), ended up on a chain, underweight, and repeatedly hit with a 2 x 4, everyone lost interest, County was going to take them to court for dog at large (3rd offense), HOA was going to sue. AND no one had her vac records if she even had any.

We got NONE of this info. And we were the one's who had to put her down. Needless to say, I quit supporting and referring people to that nationwide organization.

I imagine with the popularity of "Game of Thrones", wolfdogs and wolf looking type dogs are becoming the newest accessory. I wouldn't know, I quit keeping up on the trends.

KNOW the breed you're looking at, read EVERYTHING you can on it. Does it fit your lifestyle? Do have enough room? Will it be around adults only or a mixed bag of humans? What about other critters? Are you going to provide the thing that the dog does best. ie., herding, running, playing, hunting, or just chillin out?

As far as training, read the books, listen to the experts, and take what works for YOUR dog, you know him best, and leave the rest. Your dog isn't going to read any of those books or respect every trainer it meets.

This tragedy could have been avoided, like many have said, "It was a perfect storm". A dog (or any animal) is a LIFE TIME commitment (10-18 years for dogs). They're like children: when you relocate, when you aren't available, when they're crated, when someone else feeds them........they stress. They may panick. They may, in extreme cases, go bat **** crazy. And some may be cool as a cucumber.

As far as "There are no bad dogs, just bad owners".....NOT in all cases. Some dogs are just born evil, just like people.

 

[JaneEyre]

I think that anyone who has read through this entire thread would hopefully walk away with a bit of knowledge when it comes to getting a dog, or any animal.

Any breed needs to be carefully assessed as to it's basic development......ie., is this breed a companion, tool, both, or neither?
If you have the opportunity to interact with the dam and sire, are they well mannered, stand offish, and/or aggressive?
If you get from a breeder, call the animal control in their area to see if there's been any complaints.
God bless you if you decide on a rescue, but out here in the boonies, displaced city folk tend to pass on their problems when their "awesome Herd dog" slaughtered all their chickens or their expensive "Livestock Guardian dog" gutted a calf. Here we have a leash law, "open range", so you better keep your property fenced. Dogs have fenced ACREAGE to run, dig, and play on. Dumping them at a rescue is just passing on a disaster.

I've had one total cluster **** of a rescue about 9 years back with a wolfdog (wolf hybrid). I've had wolfdogs since 1995. I KNOW when to walk away.........but, the owner in Texas sedated the dog, at the halfway point in New Mexico the WD showed major aggression towards all the handlers (sedation again), we picked her up in Albuquerque (that was a trial by fire) and got her home. Within 18 hours, she had savaged my forearm (my male wolfdog rolled her before I even knew I was bleeding), attacked both me and my ex BF, stalked us and the other animals here..........and no sanctuary had any openings. Tough call but we weren't going to pass her on. Seriously, she scared the bejesus out of us, and my male placed himself between us. We got the back story on her in the next few weeks and it was HORRIFIC. Inbred (father/daughter), lone survivor of a litter of 8, rescued, rehomed, red flagged at 2 Petsmart's (Michigan & Texas), ended up on a chain, underweight, and repeatedly hit with a 2 x 4, everyone lost interest, County was going to take them to court for dog at large (3rd offense), HOA was going to sue. AND no one had her vac records if she even had any.

We got NONE of this info. And we were the one's who had to put her down. Needless to say, I quit supporting and referring people to that nationwide organization.

I imagine with the popularity of "Game of Thrones", wolfdogs and wolf looking type dogs are becoming the newest accessory. I wouldn't know, I quit keeping up on the trends.

KNOW the breed you're looking at, read EVERYTHING you can on it. Does it fit your lifestyle? Do have enough room? Will it be around adults only or a mixed bag of humans? What about other critters? Are you going to provide the thing that the dog does best. ie., herding, running, playing, hunting, or just chillin out?

As far as training, read the books, listen to the experts, and take what works for YOUR dog, you know him best, and leave the rest. Your dog isn't going to read any of those books or respect every trainer it meets.

This tragedy could have been avoided, like many have said, "It was a perfect storm". A dog (or any animal) is a LIFE TIME commitment (10-18 years for dogs). They're like children: when you relocate, when you aren't available, when they're crated, when someone else feeds them........they stress. They may panick. They may, in extreme cases, go bat **** crazy. And some may be cool as a cucumber.

As far as "There are no bad dogs, just bad owners".....NOT in all cases. Some dogs are just born evil, just like people.

Respectfully, I must disagree about disaster dogs being dumped on rescues because they don't do what they were meant to do. In my experience (and I think there are some stats out there from various shelters that support this, but I'm not sure if I can find them online at the moment), dogs do not get dumped in great numbers for this reason. If a herding dog is in the shelter, for instance, it's most likely not because it would not herd or is a disaster dog. More than likely it's because the owners bought it for the wrong reasons (liked the appearance or temperament, but were not prepared to give it a job as these dogs desperately need and to provide it with the proper exercise and mental stimulation). The dog is not broken nor is it a disaster. It was not properly provided for, and it now needs a home that can provide for its mental and physical needs.

I agree that the "rescue" you adopted the wolf hybrid from is a disaster, but I question the ethics of adopting hybrids out at all after working with a sanctuary that handles many and no longer adopts unless they are extremely low content. (Incidentally, I fostered a high content one for a very short period and fell in love, but he absolutely was a wolf and he belonged at a sanctuary. I only did so in order to keep him from being killed while they made space. I considered adopting him but did not have the money to put into creating a very large Ft. Knox type of situation on my property for him so that his needs could be met.)

There are many red flags with rescues and breeders to watch out for, but that's a whole other discussion.

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