VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[tapu]

Whoa, Annmarie, incredible find! I'm halfway through the article though I couldn't resist skipping ahead to the comments.

Thanks! Be back.... tap

 

[dangrsmind]

dangrs can you tell me something about the history of "occult" believes,I would imagine they are within the same belief system as christianity and also based on pagan beliefs?
....or is there a type of occult that developed seperate?

Well both and it depends what you mean. Christianity of course dates back only about 2000 years. Shamanism and the use of entheogenic substances dates back to the earliest human cultures and predates the existence of cities and even agriculture.

A lot of modern occult thinking (i.e. Crowley) draws on the Egyptian religion which dates back at least to 3000 BCE I believe. Also many occult techniques are drawn from the tantric teachings of Buddhism and Hinduism and these date back to around the same era. Kabbalah/gematria dates back to at least 500 BCE if one considers evidence of purposeful encryption of esoteric messages in religious documents. As another example, Pazuzu comes from Sumerian culture and dates back some 3000 years to around 1000 BCE.

However there is evidence of religious belief dating back much further than this, recent archeological discoveries have identified a religion going back some 70,000 years. See http://www.afrol.com/articles/23093
for a discussion of religios worship of the python in Africa. These beliefs survived into much later religions (Satan was symbolized by a serpent) including much more recently Voudun, Santeria, etc.

A lot of what we consider to be occult related ideas today date back to the middle ages and renaissance periods. For example, the modern idea of witches and witchcraft. I mentioned the demon of the abyss Chronozon, and I believe Chronozon originates with John Dee who lived in the 16th century. Also Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy were written in the 15th century.

More recently there have been a variety of occult revivals. For example, the Spiritualism movement of the late 19th and early 20th century and the recent New Age movement. Although they may claim longer lineages many current occult schools such as Wicca, O.T.O. and the Golden Dawn date only to this recent period of revival, not back thousands of years. However some of the methods they employ very probably go back to the very beginning of human religious belief.

 

[dangrsmind]

...this thread has apparently become an online 'comparative religions' message board. i know how little real news/info is available about the HORRORCORE MURDERS from mainstream sources so i dug around and found two incredible links
to share. i hope these haven't been posted yet but i doubt it as they were written before the killings and center around ICP and to a lesser degree, SKR.
Make sure to read the 100+ comments following this piece. make your own opinions but i feel it makes "juggalos" seem like 'good kids' compared to the
borderlines of SKR. well please read it and comment. thanx!:twocents:
http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n10/htdocs/land_of_juggalos.php?country=us

Both of these have been posted before but they are worth reviewing especially for those that want to learn more about Juggaloism as a religious practice of sorts.

 

[dangrsmind]

Well, Tapu, I'll warn you not to look at this since I suspect it will have the same effect your warning had on me. I just had to see what was done to St. Peter.

Traité des instruments de martyre et des divers modes de supplice employés par les paiens contre les chrétiens; tortures et tourments des martyrs chrétiens. Tr. sur les originaux italien et latin (1904)
http://www.archive.org/details/torturesettourments00galluoft

roughly in translation- Treatise on the instruments of martyrdom and their diverse uses employed by the pagans against the Christians; tortures and torments of the Christian martyrs. Don't worry, you really won't need to be able to read or speak any language at all to get the gist of it.

WARNING: It is a book of engravings, and far less shocking than photos would be, but it may not be for everybody.

The robes worn by members of the Longwood secret society Chi also resemble the hoods worn by the accused as they were led to the gallows, by executioners, and of course by the inquisitors during the Spanish inquisition.

See http://hisvorpal.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/spanish_inquisition-1.jpg another etching, but the same warnings apply.

 

[dangrsmind]

....now that truly makes horrorcore stuff look like something on the disney channel...

And this is history not fantasy.

 

[dangrsmind]

...so what about satanic beliefs?...I'm sure people believed in that stuff before Levay came around?....was that based on christianity?...I'm wondering where there christians that knew about the story of Lucifer being the fallen angel and decided to follow him ?

"Michael Aquino reported in his history of The Church of Satan that in 1987 he had discovered that Anton Szandor LaVey had relied heavily on an earlier text, the pseudonymous Ragnar Redbeard’s Might Is Right, for the substance of The Satanic Bible’s “Book of Satan” and that LaVey had also appended a version of John Dee’s “Enochian Keys” to his text. Since then, the composite nature of The Satanic Bible has largely been taken for granted by scholars, though their evaluations of LaVey’s work have differed."

 

[tapu]

Wonder where is with that separate forum....

 

[dangrsmind]

I'll refrain from further posting. Claudici, PM me if you have further questions regarding these matters.

 

[tapu]

Nothing personal, man. Clearly there is a call for separating out certain sub-topics on here. Until then, this is the only place to post about this content. I'll see if I can rouse .

Edited to add: I've pm'd him, explaining that we have people interested in exploring side topics, while we would like a main thread for case developments.

 

[dangrsmind]

Nothing personal, man. Clearly there is a call for separating out certain sub-topics on here. Until then, this is the only place to post about this content. I'll see if I can rouse .

Edited to add: I've pm'd him, explaining that we have people interested in exploring side topics, while we would like a main thread for case developments.

No offense taken, I've got lots and lots more of this stuff so I'll wait until there is a place to put it.

 

[maunsapt]

I'll refrain from further posting. Claudici, PM me if you have further questions regarding these matters.

i hope you're not leaving, you give such wonderful insights to alot of info.

 

[dangrsmind]

i hope you're not leaving, you give such wonderful insights to alot of info.

Nah, not leaving. Just trying to be considerate. Shocking I know

 

[tapu]

Nah, not leaving. Just trying to be considerate. Shocking I know

Demonic possession can take some strange turns.... :wink:

 

[PAXIMUS]

...this thread has apparently become an online 'comparative religions' message board. i know how little real news/info is available about the HORRORCORE MURDERS from mainstream sources so i dug around and found two incredible links
to share. i hope these haven't been posted yet but i doubt it as they were written before the killings and center around ICP and to a lesser degree, SKR.
Make sure to read the 100+ comments following this piece. make your own opinions but i feel it makes "juggalos" seem like 'good kids' compared to the
borderlines of SKR. well please read it and comment. thanx!:twocents:
http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n10/htdocs/land_of_juggalos.php?country=us

Good article, the guy sort of pissed me off when, in the first sentence, he compares the plight of the juggalos to that of the Jewish people. Absurd.

Overall excellent reporting though.

 

[tapu]

I thought that reference was strangely out of place, too, Pax. In a number of ways.

That aside, I loved that guy's writing!

"... two guys in huge shorts ran up panting like they'd discovered gold..."

Now that's descriptive.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Good article, the guy sort of pissed me off when, in the first sentence, he compares the plight of the juggalos to that of the Jewish people. Absurd.

Overall excellent reporting though.

I think You, me, ziggy, Dngrs, claudicici, Tapu, maunsapt, Blou and anyone else should go to the next horrorcore event and infiltrate their little clique. We could co author a little piece like this.

 

[tapu]

I think You, me, ziggy, Dngrs, claudicici, Tapu, maunsapt, Blou and anyone else should go to the next horrorcore event and infiltrate their little clique. We could co author a little piece like this.

I am so there.

Er, you don't think our age will give us away, do you? Maybe Dangrs and I could pose as your parents, going with you because, hey, you'll go anyway?

 

[dangrsmind]

I am so there.

Er, you don't think our age will give us away, do you? Maybe Dangrs and I could pose as your parents, going with you because, hey, you'll go anyway?

I've actually done this before to keep my friend's not exactly legal party from getting shut down by the police. "Yes officer, we'll make the kids turn down the bass..."

Some upcoming SKR related horrorcore shows:

12/12/2009 7:00 PM at Winter Freeze - Live In Austin Texas (All Ages Event)
2908 Fruit Street, Austin, Texas 78705
Cost: $7.00

2009 - Winter Freeze - Live In Austin TX December 12th 2009 @ The Spider House : SickTanicK, Razakel, Stitch Mouth, Hate Magnet, Scum, Smallz One + Many More!

12/31/2009 6:30 PM at New Years Massacre Live In Pheonix AZ (All Ages Event)
1906 E. Mcdowell Rd, Pheonix, Arizona 85006
Cost: 15.00

New Years Massacre - Live In Pheonix AZ, December 31st 2009 @ The G-Spot : SickTanicK, Razakel, Two Clipz, Virus Music, Intrinzink Records, Daniel Jordan, No Luck Records, Kobolos, Def-Killa & More!

1/23/2010 6:30 PM at Deathfest 2010 Live In Dallas TX (ALL Ages Event)
2810 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas
Cost: $13.00

Deathfest 2010 - Live In Dallas TX, January 23rd 2010 @ The Lounge On Elm St : SickTanicK, Razakel, Bloodshot, Con-Crete, Stitch Mouth, Phrozen Body Boy & The Devil Town Triad, Scum, Smallz One, Project Sin, Dark Half + More!

 

[AndresEscobar]

I am so there.

Er, you don't think our age will give us away, do you? Maybe Dangrs and I could pose as your parents, going with you because, hey, you'll go anyway?

haha. Shrim's my age. We can look like a horrorcore family.

 

[tapu]

haha. Shrim's my age. We can look like a horrorcore family.

I can look pretty hardcore. But then I give it away by smiling too much.

We gotta get Claudicici and Heroine there for the look!

Oh, I just saw Dangrs concert list! I wanna go see Razakel! I think I'm growing fond of her....