VA VA - Kelly Catalano, 40, Chesterfield, 15 Jan 2010 - #3

[scrappy0122]

Im curious if the current on the bottom is the same as the current at the top?

 

[MBLover]

Im curious if the current on the bottom is the same as the current at the top?

I don't think so... If it's anything like what you experience at the beach.

The water going back out has more force since it's being pulled outward. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me that she went upstream...when she should have gone downstream...

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this

 

[scrappy0122]

Im also still waiting on a reply back from poor spelling on the mail box? I guess thats a no comment on that one . Im just curious if was some kids that did that as just something random ?

 

[MBLover]

Could be...

Could be the same co-worker(s) who removed the pics of Kelly and her partner from her toolbox at work too...

I have a very distinct feeling that there was at least one person at BPA who did not like/care for or condone Kelly's lifestyle. But, of course, that one person isn't going to make their thoughts known to the rest of the co-workers who liked Kelly and seemed to support her.

Of course, there also could be a neighbor who didn't care for Kelly's lifestyle either who would have defaced her mailbox.

But I still go back to a crime of passion (in some fashion) - whether an ex or someone whose advances were rebuffed to jealousy in the workplace.

 

[scrappy0122]

The truth sooner or later will come out and its just a matter of time .
I hope its sooner than later.

 

[scrappy0122]

What does add friends do? Does it go to my regular email or one for w.s.?

 

[MBLover]

It just adds to your friends list on WS

 

[MBLover]

http://tribes.tribe.net/emergencyservices/thread/dc747856-f163-4158-97ef-590fbb11ae86

Many drownings are actually homicides — and first responders' observations and incident reports into them may be critical in initiating an investigation.

The initial determinations of the actual drowning incidents as accidents listed above are not uncommon. However, what we believe is uncommon is the discovery of their red flags and the ensuing investigations. How many other homicidal drowning cases are being missed? We believe far too many.

Responding EMS and fire personnel can make a critical difference in not only whether a law enforcement investigation is opened for a body-found-in-water incident, but also in whether a rightful conviction can be obtained — provided the right steps are taken.

Our experience with thousands of law enforcement, dive team, fire and medical personnel across the world has convinced us that a large percentage of homicidal drowning incidents are either not sufficiently investigated or are not investigated at all.

There are several reasons for this and "tragic accident" is too common a mindset, one that can cause tunnel vision. The red flags normally found on homicide victims or at the crime scenes on land are rarely present, and law enforcement and medical personnel are not trained to recognize the red flags specific to homicidal drowning.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_disposal_of_bodies_in_the_water

Many criminals dispose of bodies in a river, hoping that the body is carried away. However, this method will most likely lead to a quick detection of the body, because the body gets entangled at the side of the river, or stopped at a dam, or is simply seen floating by others. A disposal in large lakes or oceans is more likely to hide the body, but a decomposing body can develop a strong positive buoyancy due to the decomposing gases being trapped underneath the skin. This may bring the body up to the surface, or at least increase the movement across the ocean floor due to wave actions. Many bodies have washed up at the shore. Bodies have also been discovered in the nets or lines of fishermen, and occasionally, bodies are also discovered by divers.

Very cold water with little oxygen may even preserve bodies, allowing for an easier identification, as for example Margaret Hogg, the Wasdale Lady in the Lake in Wast Water lake in the Wasdale area (see National Trust Properties in England). She was found after 8 years, with her body preserved like wax.


http://books.google.com/books?id=32...k_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBTgK

(I hope that link works...there's an excerpt from a book...first few lines in the first paragraph of that page shown - Forensic Pathology Reviews, Volume 3 By Michael Tsokos page 58)


http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/22/2583683-the-smiley-face-killers

Some of the victims were allegedly held for an unknown period of time, possibly tortured, and then disposed of in a local body of water, thereby depriving investigators of valuable physical evidence of the crime.

 

[scrappy0122]

http://tribes.tribe.net/emergencyservices/thread/dc747856-f163-4158-97ef-590fbb11ae86

Many drownings are actually homicides — and first responders' observations and incident reports into them may be critical in initiating an investigation.

The initial determinations of the actual drowning incidents as accidents listed above are not uncommon. However, what we believe is uncommon is the discovery of their red flags and the ensuing investigations. How many other homicidal drowning cases are being missed? We believe far too many.

Responding EMS and fire personnel can make a critical difference in not only whether a law enforcement investigation is opened for a body-found-in-water incident, but also in whether a rightful conviction can be obtained — provided the right steps are taken.

Our experience with thousands of law enforcement, dive team, fire and medical personnel across the world has convinced us that a large percentage of homicidal drowning incidents are either not sufficiently investigated or are not investigated at all.

There are several reasons for this and "tragic accident" is too common a mindset, one that can cause tunnel vision. The red flags normally found on homicide victims or at the crime scenes on land are rarely present, and law enforcement and medical personnel are not trained to recognize the red flags specific to homicidal drowning.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_disposal_of_bodies_in_the_water

Many criminals dispose of bodies in a river, hoping that the body is carried away. However, this method will most likely lead to a quick detection of the body, because the body gets entangled at the side of the river, or stopped at a dam, or is simply seen floating by others. A disposal in large lakes or oceans is more likely to hide the body, but a decomposing body can develop a strong positive buoyancy due to the decomposing gases being trapped underneath the skin. This may bring the body up to the surface, or at least increase the movement across the ocean floor due to wave actions. Many bodies have washed up at the shore. Bodies have also been discovered in the nets or lines of fishermen, and occasionally, bodies are also discovered by divers.

Very cold water with little oxygen may even preserve bodies, allowing for an easier identification, as for example Margaret Hogg, the Wasdale Lady in the Lake in Wast Water lake in the Wasdale area (see National Trust Properties in England). She was found after 8 years, with her body preserved like wax.


http://books.google.com/books?id=32...k_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBTgK

(I hope that link works...there's an excerpt from a book...first few lines in the first paragraph of that page shown - Forensic Pathology Reviews, Volume 3 By Michael Tsokos page 58)


http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/22/2583683-the-smiley-face-killers

Some of the victims were allegedly held for an unknown period of time, possibly tortured, and then disposed of in a local body of water, thereby depriving investigators of valuable physical evidence of the crime.

Wow that was very good info. . That hits the head on the nail . Ilike the way you think.

 

[MBLover]

Thanks! It did add some info...but still can't find what we're looking for... Maybe tomorrow!

 

[MBLover]

Well... Still looking and came up with this... Even though this is a 3 year old child...it basically still applies with similar circumstances of Kelly...

http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/youngstud24762002pim/

"They can't come up with an exact time of death, or even an estimate." Doctors concluded that Cristy was a homicide victim based partly on the unlikelihood that a 3-year-old could have walked two miles over several freeways or that she floated or swam upstream.

 

[scrappy0122]

Making progress feels really good!

 

[redsky]

I wish we knew more though! Where she "ended up" makes no sense.

 

[beltingitout]

The mailbox issue, according to family, was something CinV did. Many of the friends that I have talked to that Kelly and CinV had, had said they had warned Kelly about CinV. Some had even taken Kelly in hoping she wouldn't go back to CinV because of abuse.

Also, as far as the experiment, wouldn't the conditions, water current, etc have to be the same as the day that she came up missing? I am sure that the warmer temps. would play some type of factor.

 

[scrappy0122]

Someone will figure this out , im sure of it. There are some great minds at work here.

 

[scrappy0122]

The mailbox issue, according to family, was something CinV did.

That would explian why there was no response.

 

[knowthings]

I am wondering how far Kelly could have walked by the river, could she have arranged to meet someone quite a distance from BPA? that would explain why nobody saw anyone or a vehicle. She could have met up with someone about half a mile away, in a secluded spot, she was probably running a bit late and sprinted there intending to return to BPA in time for her pre-arranged 11.30 a.m walk with the two friends. I don't know what the paths are like by the river or how far you can go but I think we need to search for evidence closer to where her body was found.

 

[scrappy0122]

The mailbox issue, according to family, was something CinV did. Many of the friends that I have talked to that Kelly and CinV had, had said they had warned Kelly about CinV. Some had even taken Kelly in hoping she wouldn't go back to CinV because of abuse.

Also, as far as the experiment, wouldn't the conditions, water current, etc have to be the same as the day that she came up missing? I am sure that the warmer temps. would play some type of factor.

I think the water levels would need to be the same level , and wether the tide was in or out. It would be just to see if it would end up any where near where she was found. Then another from 95 bridge area. An expert would be nice to talk to about this, and I talked to the dive captin and he said" I can tell you where she is not" she was not in that area .It would be hard to do that kind of experiment . I think the 95 bridge theory was the most likely based on where she was found. There are still a few missing facts .

 

[ccweb]

At the very least, a walking experiment could be done. We could try to trace possible walks that would get us to that section of 95/river. Maybe some evidence would be found along the way. Although...as I write this, it isn't sitting well with me that she would have walked to that area.
Let me ask this...where is the first section of bridge that someone could jump or be pushed into the river, in relation to BPA?

 

[scrappy0122]

At the very least, a walking experiment could be done. We could try to trace possible walks that would get us to that section of 95/river. Maybe some evidence would be found along the way. Although...as I write this, it isn't sitting well with me that she would have walked to that area.
Let me ask this...where is the first section of bridge that someone could jump or be pushed into the river, in relation to BPA?

That sounds like a good start. We just keep at it until something gives. Who knows maybe we could find more evidence?