Verdict is in! GUILTY of MURDER ONE - Hung Jury On Penalty Phase #2

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I know people are not gonna like this, but IMO, Travis came off as really unlikeable based on what was heard in trial alone. I think that helped members of the jury who thought there may have been emotional abuse believe this. It also probably played into them not being able to agree with the DP for her. I am not saying Travis was unlikeable....just saying if all you heard was what was said in the trial, he came off that way...

- His own awful words to Jodi (remember the jury did not hear why he said those things; they didn't hear that she stalked him, slashed his tires, etc). Taken by themselves they're pretty awful and certainly seem to be emotionally abusive. This made him seem unlikeable.

- He worked for (and was successful) at Prepaid Legal. Many people view PPL as a pyramid scheme that preys on the unsuspecting who are desperate to make money and are taken advantage of. (Just Google Prepaid Legal and Pyramid Scheme- this isn't exactly a secret). This made him seem unlikeable.

- He purported to be an upstanding member of LDS. He was a returned missionary, a member approved to enter temple (in good standing and not fornicating), and a priesthood holder. All Christian religions are pretty much against pre-maritals sex, but IMO, the Mormons are some of the strongest in their stance against it and enforcing it. I have been to a few Catholic weddings & several other Christian weddings where the bride and groom's child was their flower girl or ring bearer and the couple had lived together for a while. That isn't really gonna happen in Mormonism. I have several good friends who are Mormon, and my impression is that chastity is a way bigger deal in Mormonism than other Christian groups purport it to be in their religions (meaning Mormons walk the walk on this issue). BYU threw a star player off of their basketball team a few years ago when he admitted to having sex with his girlfriend. I doubt we'd ever see Georgetown or any other Catholic university do that (there is a morals clause prohibiting sex for unmarried students at BYU that I've never heard of there being at a Catholic university or college). When discussing this with a good friend who is Mormon, he told me that one of the LDS presidents once said something to the effect of "we would rather come to this station and take your body off the train in a casket than to have you come home unclean, having lost your virtue.” (found it here- http://www.gospeldoctrine.com/content/1-corinthians-3). Obviously, plenty of LDS just like plenty of people of every religion are fornicating, I'm just saying it's taken VERY seriously and some who are Mormon or know a lot of Mormons (and there are many in the Phoenix area) would be hip to the fact that Travis was living a lie and his image/income was tied in with that lie. (Look, I personally don't care if any adult is having sex with any other consenting adult and I don't care that Jodi & Travis were having sex. I'm just saying it didn't make him look particularly good that his status and image were so wrapped up with being a good Mormon yet here he was having sex with Jodi after baptizing her). This made him seem unlikeable.

- The sex. I'm gonna say this - many men (and women) would not want to invision someone tying their daughter to tree in a sexual fantasy or have anal sex with her even if she was a willing participant or even if she initiated it. They'd hope a man would treat a lady better than that (yeah, I know we know Jodi's no "lady," but just go with me for a minute...). I think some people think if you really love and respect someone, you aren't having "that" type of sex with them. That if he loved and respected Jodi, he'd never try to have anything besides vaginal sex in a bed with her. I know that's an antiquated view and of course, the majority of loving couples are having and have had sex that deviates from the missionary position in bed. And Jodi was certainly a willing participant and initatior. I just think it still made Travis unlikeable. I have had several girlfriends who complain about doing some sexual things with their significant others that they don't really like but "will do for the guy" or will do because they're afraid the guy won't like them if they don't, will look for another girl, or will leave them. Sometimes I wondered, since Travis said Jodi wasn't emotional during sex via his statement she saw him as a dildo with a heartbeat, that she wasn't realy into the sex but doing these things because she thought it would keep him around & keep him liking her (which would make sense with a BPD's fear of abandonment as well). I think some women could relate to this. And some older men (and women) on the jury may have thought that the ways Travis wanted and did have sex with Jodi were disrespectful to her, even if she engaged in this activity willingly or even initated it. Some people just expect a man to treat a woman better, let alone a woman you've just baptized. (Not saying I agree with this- just saying some may have seen it this way.) The anal sex, etc. made him seem unlikeable.

- Travis also came off as a cheater and someone who strung girls along (Deanna). That made him unlikeable.

- Travis came off as a liar just like Jodi- the lies about being a virgin, the separate hotel rooms, etc. He was 30. If you wanna have sex, have sex. If it's not part of your religion but you're gonna do it anyway, step away from one or the other. This made him unlikeable.

- At 30, Travis was still hiding that he was having sex like a teenager & claiming to be a virgin. This made him come off to some people I've talked to as immature and ridiculous for a man of his age to do. This made him unlikeable.

Look, I am 100% not saying these are reasons that Travis wasn't likeable, we know from all the friends he had (versus Jodi's one friend) that he was likeable. But that's not what the jury heard during the trial. He was human. He made mistakes. His mistakes were small and common (sex out of marriage, for example). He did not deserve to die. He did not murder anyone. When I see pictures of him with his little dog, my heart breaks. I wish the jury could have seen that picture over and over again. That made him more of a person and more likeable to me than the slit throat pictures. I have a theory that no man who truly loves a little dog can be anything but good.

Jodi Arias is a murderer. But I think it Jodi helped that Travis didn't come off as likeable as he should have. And that's a shame.

One of the best posts I've ever read, and I've read a LOT. I had to work my way through all of these issues with Travis, and in the end, I came to forgive and love him. I do think there were things about him that should have come before the jury,and I'm deeply saddened they did not.
 
Maybe. Or that she was stealing from PPL or from Travis........

But you make a good point. iMO, the defense would have fared better with an insanity defense, and oh HELL-o, who wouldn't agree she is nuts? But they went with self defense. Ahem. So why would the defense go with such a shaky stand? Because JA is too vain to admit EVER how batsheet crazy she is.

There's no way she qualified for insanity, but heat of passion would have been the go, especially if they could have got Jodi to lie about a heated argument that occurred on the day of the murder and lasted all day from about 2pm until 5:30pm .. mind you that wouldn't have worked anyway, she had the gas cans and the gun on her, murder one all the way :)
 
The bright side : if he wants to ask her what really happened, the fog did not manage to get him. But after 18 days of her drivel, hard to think for a moment that anyone could think for a minute the little bloody murderer is ever going to tell what really happened.

this guy's single, right?

:facepalm:
 
What would be the one secret JA wouldn't want to get out? That she was n*ts? Then, I'd agree. Travis was "threatening" to tell her family...well hadn't others? No, IMO, he's thinking like a normal person...and whatever JA was threatening to do would be worthy of his anger.

I'm thinking it was whatever she had done to "scam" him. Regardless, I do agree that his anger at her was justified. And, she had to have sex with him before she killed him, so that she could say: " I knew you still wanted me."
 
PHOENIX — The jury foreman in Jodi Arias' trial says the panel just couldn't decide whether the killing of her boyfriend was enough to merit a death a sentence.

William Zervakos tells The Associated Press jurors struggled with what they called a flawed system, explaining Arias wasn't "Jeffrey Dahmer or Charles Manson." They thought it was unfair that 12 average Americans who aren't lawyers had to make such a crucial decision.

The 69-year-old said Friday the entire panel believed the slaying was no doubt brutal. But he says they had to take into account Arias' lack of a criminal history or any previous violent behavior.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/arias-jury_n_3330897.html

Did he say boyfriend? It annoys me when one refers to Travis as her boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend is what he was. Makes a big difference, in my opinion.
 
I was hoping she would've said the real story during her pre-sentencing interview blitz. Nope.

The bright side : if he wants to ask her what really happened, the fog did not manage to get him. But after 18 days of her drivel, hard to think for a moment that anyone could think for a minute the little bloody murderer is ever going to tell what really happened.
 
What got me was when he said "we" don't know what was going on. Did it go over his head that there were cameras in the courtroom? Buddy, we know a lot more than you do! We heard everything you heard, and more. Since he can go on national TV and criticize the public, I think I have every right to criticize him here.

Oh my, this is so eerily similiar to CMA's jury, "we" dont know who was responsible for Caylee that day. I. am. sick., these two cases have too many
behind the scene coincidences and it's not on the prosecution's side, either.
 
One of the best posts I've ever read, and I've read a LOT. I had to work my way through all of these issues with Travis, and in the end, I came to forgive and love him. I do think there were things about him that should have come before the jury,and I'm deeply saddened they did not.

Thanks, OEJ.
 
Why do you believe she was if there is no evidence of it? I'm not trying to be confrontational. Phoenix is three and a half hours from the Grand Canyon--four, if you factor in a stop along the way, parking, etc.

I think that it was awful her fam wasn't at the courthouse, but it's a stretch to assume that her mother was almost four hours away...?

She posted pics with herself and the Grand Canyon behind her......so SHE was there and according to her post, her BF and the kids........not a stretch to see SA going with them, or the rest of the crew.
 
I found it really strange that the foreman said he didn't want to look at her when they read the guilty verdict, but he did and he "will remember it forever." WTF?? If I had just come to the conclusion that she carried out this unspeakable crime...I would not be caring about how she took the news. I would be looking at the Alexanders and feeling good that I did something to ease their pain. I don't get that?

It sounds to me (amateur analysis) like he feels or felt he let JA down in some way, that he didn't want to see her reaction because he was invested in her emotional response/state. He identified more with her then he did with any of the other players or witnesses in this trial.

Is it me? Cause I am invested also, but with all the evidence Juan presented, the only thing I want to see is Jodi hurting. Total loss of freedom, no platform upon which she can spew her toxic stories and lies, no strawberry frappes, no nothing....

I'll remember JA's delayed reaction forever also....with great satisfaction.
 
I know people are not gonna like this, but IMO, Travis came off as really unlikeable based on what was heard in trial alone. I think that helped members of the jury who thought there may have been emotional abuse believe this. It also probably played into them not being able to agree with the DP for her. I am not saying Travis was unlikeable....just saying if all you heard was what was said in the trial, he came off that way...

- His own awful words to Jodi (remember the jury did not hear why he said those things; they didn't hear that she stalked him, slashed his tires, etc). Taken by themselves they're pretty awful and certainly seem to be emotionally abusive. This made him seem unlikeable.

- He worked for (and was successful) at Prepaid Legal. Many people view PPL as a pyramid scheme that preys on the unsuspecting who are desperate to make money and are taken advantage of. (Just Google Prepaid Legal and Pyramid Scheme- this isn't exactly a secret). This made him seem unlikeable.

- He purported to be an upstanding member of LDS. He was a returned missionary, a member approved to enter temple (in good standing and not fornicating), and a priesthood holder. All Christian religions are pretty much against pre-maritals sex, but IMO, the Mormons are some of the strongest in their stance against it and enforcing it. I have been to a few Catholic weddings & several other Christian weddings where the bride and groom's child was their flower girl or ring bearer and the couple had lived together for a while. That isn't really gonna happen in Mormonism. I have several good friends who are Mormon, and my impression is that chastity is a way bigger deal in Mormonism than other Christian groups purport it to be in their religions (meaning Mormons walk the walk on this issue). BYU threw a star player off of their basketball team a few years ago when he admitted to having sex with his girlfriend. I doubt we'd ever see Georgetown or any other Catholic university do that (there is a morals clause prohibiting sex for unmarried students at BYU that I've never heard of there being at a Catholic university or college). When discussing this with a good friend who is Mormon, he told me that one of the LDS presidents once said something to the effect of "we would rather come to this station and take your body off the train in a casket than to have you come home unclean, having lost your virtue.” (found it here- http://www.gospeldoctrine.com/content/1-corinthians-3). Obviously, plenty of LDS just like plenty of people of every religion are fornicating, I'm just saying it's taken VERY seriously and some who are Mormon or know a lot of Mormons (and there are many in the Phoenix area) would be hip to the fact that Travis was living a lie and his image/income was tied in with that lie. (Look, I personally don't care if any adult is having sex with any other consenting adult and I don't care that Jodi & Travis were having sex. I'm just saying it didn't make him look particularly good that his status and image were so wrapped up with being a good Mormon yet here he was having sex with Jodi after baptizing her). This made him seem unlikeable.

- The sex. I'm gonna say this - many men (and women) would not want to invision someone tying their daughter to tree in a sexual fantasy or have anal sex with her even if she was a willing participant or even if she initiated it. They'd hope a man would treat a lady better than that (yeah, I know we know Jodi's no "lady," but just go with me for a minute...). I think some people think if you really love and respect someone, you aren't having "that" type of sex with them. That if he loved and respected Jodi, he'd never try to have anything besides vaginal sex in a bed with her. I know that's an antiquated view and of course, the majority of loving couples are having and have had sex that deviates from the missionary position in bed. And Jodi was certainly a willing participant and initatior. I just think it still made Travis unlikeable. I have had several girlfriends who complain about doing some sexual things with their significant others that they don't really like but "will do for the guy" or will do because they're afraid the guy won't like them if they don't, will look for another girl, or will leave them. Sometimes I wondered, since Travis said Jodi wasn't emotional during sex via his statement she saw him as a dildo with a heartbeat, that she wasn't realy into the sex but doing these things because she thought it would keep him around & keep him liking her (which would make sense with a BPD's fear of abandonment as well). I think some women could relate to this. And some older men (and women) on the jury may have thought that the ways Travis wanted and did have sex with Jodi were disrespectful to her, even if she engaged in this activity willingly or even initated it. Some people just expect a man to treat a woman better, let alone a woman you've just baptized. (Not saying I agree with this- just saying some may have seen it this way.) The anal sex, etc. made him seem unlikeable.

- Travis also came off as a cheater and someone who strung girls along (Deanna). That made him unlikeable.

- Travis came off as a liar just like Jodi- the lies about being a virgin, the separate hotel rooms, etc. He was 30. If you wanna have sex, have sex. If it's not part of your religion but you're gonna do it anyway, step away from one or the other. This made him unlikeable.

- At 30, Travis was still hiding that he was having sex like a teenager & claiming to be a virgin. This made him come off to some people I've talked to as immature and ridiculous for a man of his age to do. This made him unlikeable.

Look, I am 100% not saying these are reasons that Travis wasn't likeable, we know from all the friends he had (versus Jodi's one friend) that he was likeable. But that's not what the jury heard during the trial. He was human. He made mistakes. His mistakes were small and common (sex out of marriage, for example). He did not deserve to die. He did not murder anyone. When I see pictures of him with his little dog, my heart breaks. I wish the jury could have seen that picture over and over again. That made him more of a person and more likeable to me than the slit throat pictures. I have a theory that no man who truly loves a little dog can be anything but good.

Jodi Arias is a murderer. But I think it Jodi helped that Travis didn't come off as likeable as he should have. And that's a shame.
Excellent post!!! However, I believe when Travis made the dildo with a heartbeat comment, he was saying that Jodi was concerned about sex with him more than anything else. In other words, she jumped on it every chance she got and was impatient about it too because she's hyper sexual.
 
I wish this trial could be mandatory viewing or reading for all teenaged boys.

If the girl you're sleeping with is straight up crazy and you know it (the kind of crazy that slashes your tires and breaks into your house), don't keep sleeping with her. Even if she's the only available sex around or does kinky stuff other girls won't. Even if she's the best sex you ever had.

Don't keep having sex with the crazy. Staying alive is way better than a few minutes of sex with the crazy.
I had to show my son the "after" photo of JA and then the "before" photo. He couldn't believe how she morphed. lol Hope he realizes now that you can NEVER be sure what you get. Looks can be VERY deceiving.
Slightly OT. He did have this nutty gf. Well, he just told me he's going to be staying with her while he's in LA on business. He said "she's better now". I said, "Why? Is she on medication?" (Just couldn't help myself.) He said, "No. She has a job now." THEN...I told him the JA story.
 
Hear Ted Houston's Interview With Jodi Arias

http://www.kfyi.com/pages/broomhead.html?article=11314778

More out there, on Kurt Nurmi saying Sandi wouldn't have been a good character witness amongst other things. 45 minutes long. It has more of Troy's interview at the beginning, I guess she sat down with several journalists at a time and they all took turns asking questions then edited down later.
 
I don't think JA uses her Mary Poppins facade in jail .. I bet she's completely different out of view of a camera .. JMO.

I disagree. Jodi has spent her entire life developing a skill set to appear like the "good girl" she's condescending and judgmental of others, they are all beneath her.

Angie spent her life developing her brutally honest and vicious skills because it gained her credence & respect where she grew up.

It's impossible for either one to behave like the other. It's not in their make-up at this point.

Both are cold remorseless murderers. They are much more alike than they are different. Angie's background will serve her well in prison. Jodi's will not.

All IMO





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I guess the point I was trying to make, and missing badly, was this:

I am anti-DP (surprise surprise). If I were chosen for a jury based on my vehement assurances that I would not be able to sentence a person to death, but then saw in the course of the trial such evidence that completely shook my core and persuaded me that in some cases the DP is in fact the right punishment, and I then voted for death.....

Would I be a duplicitous liar? Or would I be a human being who made a decision based on the evidence I had been given? I think that every thing we experience in life changes us, and our views and our beliefs, even in the tiniest of ways.

My belief is that something, some statement, some picture, some who knows what gave 4 of the jurors pause and they were not able to in good conscience, vote death.

I cannot imagine what these jurors have endured for 5 months and hot dog! They gave Jodi M1! They haven't failed. Not by a long shot.

I'm anti-DP too.
I thought the chances of the CM getting the DP were pretty low based on my research of the ~60 women currently on DR.
I wanted JM to get the DP just 'cause I wanted her to lose - that was just a petty, mean-spirited feeling on my part.;)

Mr. Z strikes me as ANOTHER (is it possible?) attention seeker sucker-fishing along with this trial.
 
If the jury had come back unanimous Life, and JSS had sentenced Jodi LWOP would people have been angry, or do you think they would have accepted their decision a lot easier?

Mrs G..

I think there would be many disappointed folks but I think in time & wide spread info about process I think most would be ok.. I think it's the No Verdict then to have the Foreman out doing Presser's saying "system flawed" "didn't force opinions" "she didn't look like she could do this" is just well fuel on the fire of discontent that there's specific resolution. JMO


PS wonder if Jurors are watching HLN today?
 
Seems to me just human nature to want to understand the psychology behind such a horrific act.

I'd like to know too, instead of just speculating like I have been, like we've all been.

I can understand him wanting to know, but as a juror - that was not his task. He had no problem ignoring the emotion of the Alexanders, he should have had no problem ignoring the bloody little murderer's why. The State is not even required to prove motive - why does he think he needs it as a juror ?

As a human yes because it is simply not understandable. The why is beyond the provence of the jury.
 
If the jury had come back unanimous Life, and JSS had sentenced Jodi LWOP would people have been angry, or do you think they would have accepted their decision a lot easier?

Honestly, Mrs. G., there are some who are looking for JA's head on a platter, but if she had gotten LWOP (which is what I believe the judge would have decide given the chance), it would have put this mess to bed.

I hate to have to be this crude in my analogy, but what does the system do with her: Euthanize her like a dog, or cage her?

We're down to the meanest decisions here.
 
If the jury had come back unanimous Life, and JSS had sentenced Jodi LWOP would people have been angry, or do you think they would have accepted their decision a lot easier?

Good question! I heard that LWOP can be worse than DP because a death row appeal issue can throw out the whole case! And aren't they isolated for 3 years when they first go in on LWOP? I don't know if LWOP would have been better than the long process ahead of the Alexander's, but it seen JUAN thinks it's worth it and I trust him!!
 
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