"We Didn't Mean for This to Happen"

[Eagle1]

This character that I'm "making up" coincides with one in prophecy who isn't revealed for a long time period, several consecutive heads of state, and I'm thinking since Dallas or soon after, but of course I don't know for sure.

Just saying there's hope. I think you left out a "not" or something like that in your post above. I do it all the time myself.

 

[sharpar]

Eagle

I am not saying you made him up - I think the R's made up an intruder.

Yes there is always hope but short of a confession by someone doubt it will ever be closed but I agree with Blue Crab - just an appearance of an
active investigation.

I dont believe this is a dna case and the other evidence is misleading.

I may have - read it again but am tired and my brain may be inserting it
even though its not there if you know what I mean .

Its alot easier to think a crimminal did this but I just cant buy it .

 

[aussiesheila]

Just one question, how is it that Patsy (as an adult) was too tired to stay awake but 6 yr. old JB wasn't?

Patsy hadn't had any sleep all day. JonBenet had had 2 hours sleep 9.30 to 11.30. She probably would have been tired enough within an hour of being wakened to have fallen back asleep again if she wasn't in the hands of those abusers by then.

 

[Eagle1]

I know, nobody said I'm making him up. I said it! If such a person is ever caught and any LE have been reading here, wouldn't want them to think I know anything or get me involved in any investigation.

But if there was a stealthy lurker in the shadows during the large party of 100 people on the 23rd, he was probably getting familiar with the house, and caught JonBenet alone when she went to the bathroom or something, away from the group of children. PROBABLY he molested her, told her she was so pretty, and that Santa would visit her again after Christmas, then was waiting in the house the 25th when the R's returned from the Whites', having somehow had someone resembling JAR, the walker, that both the Barnhills saw, turn off the outside light before his own arrival. Entering would have been no problem, nor hiding for hours while writing the note. He may even have sneaked into the house on other occasions, studying the family, unusually interested in families, so that I really wonder if that was why someone asked to spend a week in our house half a century ago, who we never saw and forgot he was there. I shudder to think he may have watched us as we were sleeping, or something like that.

Maybe this one was a fellow American feeling somehow rejected by JR in the Philippines, (Charles Manson felt Sharon Tate looked down on him, and sent killers to her house, so that kind of mentality is possible) and knew from his spying where to leave his "note", that PR always came down those particular stairs in the morning.

 

[sharpar]

Anything is possible but believe its far fetched & Charlie went to Tate's house

thinking it still belonged to Terry Melchner ( doris day's son) who didnt promote

his musical career and didnt encourage his association with Brian Wilson of the

Beach Boys. I dont think he even knew who Roman or Sharon were.

Tate had only been in the house a short time when the murders occurred.

 

[Eagle1]

You read Bugliosi's book HELTER SKELTER? Don't know if I still have a copy somewhere. I do remember that Melcher had owned the house. Sharon Tate was about 8 months pregnant and her husband (Roman Polanski?) was in Europe or somewhere at the time this happened.

Possibly I read that Charlie went there to see Melcher, and (I'm positive) according to the book he didn't like the way Sharon Tate looked at him? So he arranged for some of the family to go there and you know the rest.

I'm just saying "My Imaginary Jackal" could possibly have a similar personality. You're saying Terry Melcher wouldn't mentor Charlie as a musician, and maybe that he was going to do something to him? Or just try again to impress Melcher?

Whichever way that went, a perp in another case certainly could have imagined some slight from JR, I think. And could have been saying "You can't protect your women," or "your child that you're so proud of". Something along those lines. The somewhat political tone of the "ransom note" is partly where I'm getting the impression, and that's all it is. A perp with an extra touchy ego who thought he should be a big deal to JR if they met in the Philippines.

 

[Toltec]

If Patsy didnt write them she knows exactly who did. All of the " mystery " about them is contrived and silly . Someone thinks the entire world is occupied by morons . JMO

This is just a guess....but the letters could have been written by Susan Stine. She had access to Patsy and her little secrets. She was caught impersonating Chief Becker by e-mailing ex-Detective Steve Thomas and fishing for info. She was somehow accusing the Ramseys of the murder and was trying to get info from Steve.

She should have been put behind bars for that IMO.

 

[capps]

Toltec,

I agree with you about Susan Stine and the phony e-mail. What surprises me is how easily they let her off the hook. I would have thought the LE would have loved to have snared someone who was so close to the Ramseys.

 

[capps]

Quote by Aussiesheila,
"Capps, if you are waiting for an ordinary explanation for this extra-ordinary murder you will be waiting for a very long time IMO."

Aussiesheila,

That's a pretty condescending remark.
I'm not waiting for anything,I'm just following the facts ... which is sorely lacking in your theory.

 

[sharpar]

Yes I read it - the original target and the reason he went to THAT house was Terry had previously lived there. Manson was angry Terry rebuffed him and had Brain end his association with him and his dream of rock and roll celebrity.

The ransom note was written by PR . No jackal would author that .
There was no intruder - jackal personality or otherwise . The missing evidence was disposed of when John was " missing " for an hour and twenty minutes that morning.
The whole intruder theory is so unbelievable.

Toltec/ Capps -
SS is certainly a good possibility, believe she was in Atlanta at the time.
The p letters point another finger at another " mysterious stranger "
as a suspect .
Why get upset at a bit of forgery when you are letting murderers avoid
any punishment ?

 

[aussiesheila]

Quote by Aussiesheila,
"Capps, if you are waiting for an ordinary explanation for this extra-ordinary murder you will be waiting for a very long time IMO."

Aussiesheila,

That's a pretty condescending remark.
I'm not waiting for anything,I'm just following the facts ... which is sorely lacking in your theory.

I'm sorry capps, but it was prompted by your equally condescending remark "This isn't a mystery novel,where you get to throw in anything you like,to make up an ending."

I don't think that was a fair comment at all. I have looked at what evidence there is and I fail to see where I have made up anything that is contra-indicated by any of the factual evidence, equally my theory offers an explanation for every known piece of factual evidence. If you do not agree then please give me examples of what you think I have 'thrown in'.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Anything is possible but believe its far fetched & Charlie went to Tate's house

thinking it still belonged to Terry Melchner ( doris day's son) who didnt promote

his musical career and didnt encourage his association with Brian Wilson of the

Beach Boys. I dont think he even knew who Roman or Sharon were.

Tate had only been in the house a short time when the murders occurred.

Manson chose that house to target because he was familiar with the layout and property, having been there before. I don't think he knew who Sharon Tate or her guests were at all.

 

[Eagle1]

Manson chose that house to target because he was familiar with the layout and property, having been there before. I don't think he knew who Sharon Tate or her guests were at all.

He didn't really have to know them. He just remembered how Sharon Tate had looked at him, and couldn't get over it. He didn't even go there with the killers he sent, or to the LoBiancas', so he could claim afterwards that he didn't kill anybody.

My point being that very possibly there are other killers who get others to do their dirty work. The mastermind MAY not even have been there in person, just a thought. Not necessarily so.

 

[Rupert]

The Krepps thing then got me thinking about Singular:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/singular/connection_2.html

His theory is interesting and seems to make various things fit.

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks for the link to the interview of Singular at Crime Library. It seems Bellamy is Australian, now lives in Queensland. (New Zealand?) I have Singular's book, didn't remember his mentioning Krebs. If I get a chance this week I'll take another look at what all he may have said. Did you read his book, Rupert? Can you think of anything more from it?

About the killer being there, in person, or not being there, "let me rephrase that". I'm remembering that a man slept in JonBenet's bed at Charlevoix when the family weren't there. Two housekeepers apparently weren't expected to be there either. They saw his very neatnik suitcase and a pair of cowboy boots, but no glimpse of him. He must have heard them and maybe hid in the bathroom or something.

I have a feeling this was the killer! And that he enjoys being in other peoples' private places, their homes, where he doesn't belong. So far, we haven't heard of this kind of signature or m.o. in any other cases, but maybe eventually we will. You never know.

Saturday night on MSNBC Investigates, re Profilers, they're looking for a serial killer who started out with a signature nylon rope KNOT, chinese decorative diamond, very difficult. It may have a nautical or military connection, that he bound victims' wrists with this knot, and ankles with a plain knot. I did take a few notes this time. One profiler said serial killers are fantasy-motivated, and that voyeurism is one of the paraphillic (sp?) behaviors.

He seemed to learn as he went along, that his knot was so unique it might be his undoing, so he began to, after he raped the woman and after the bludgeoning murders, untie his ligatures and take them away with him.

This was similar to the Ramsey case except that he preyed on couples, who he observed having sex, and assumed it always meant the woman was a prostitute. His raping the woman, the profilers theorized, proved to him she was a prostitute, that he wanted to punish. This was all in California. If he'd preyed on children instead of couples, I'd say probably he'd started with the kind of knot used on JonBenet and advanced to the more complicated one.

Judging by our perp's having tried on for size JBR's BED and/or whatever, and his trying to steal attention for himself and away from JBR with the phone calls to Patsy during the Grand Jury, I'd say he was plain jealous of JonBenet as if she were his own sibling! Never heard of that before, just my observation from what we've been told.

 

[Rupert]

I think when Singular replied: "This woman came forward and talked about a pedophilic group in Boulder with connections to their family, and she suggested that this group might have played a role in their daughter's death." he was referring to Krebbs.

By the way, I recall vaguely that Krebbs referred to some relationship with a Manson follower in Boulder. Anyone know more about that?

I find Singular's theory interesting because I've been all around this mystery for several years and just can't see how any parent could do such a violent thing to their daughter, yet I heed others when they are so sure that the parents were hiding something. Singular theorizes that the parents did not commit the violent act, but for some reason decided to hide things. Of course we know about Bluecrab's theory, but Singular goes beyond the BDI theory.

I know one thing for sure: JonBenet was killed by someone close to JR in some way. The RN writer wants us to see that.

 

[Eagle1]

..........

By the way, I recall vaguely that Krebbs referred to some relationship with a Manson follower in Boulder. Anyone know more about that?

.......Singular theorizes that the parents did not commit the violent act, but for some reason decided to hide things. Of course we know about Bluecrab's theory, but Singular goes beyond the BDI theory.

I know one thing for sure: JonBenet was killed by someone close to JR in some way. The RN writer wants us to see that.

Oh Wow! Can you tell us any more about Singular's book? I'll get mine off the shelf and see if I made large notes in the margins as I did with ST and PMPT. More people seem to have and discuss those. Was it in Singular's about the Manson follower who'd migrated to Boulder?

 

[sharpar]

Does that make sense to you ? If, you had nothing to do with the murder then why hide things ? You would choose to hide things by not undoing ropes and such but adding them ? Doing more damage to her body ?
I see it as an attempt to cover up the cause of death and to indicate it was
a sexual offender or other crimminal not the loving indulgent parent.

The basic problem I think is that people have a hard time believing that a parent could do this to their own child. Consider that their wealth and education dont insulate them from psychological factors that allow
these things to happen. Abnormal behavior or abuse can be going on for long periods of time with no visible signs of it to anyone else outside the dymanic of the perpetrator and victim. The perpetrator is acting out some of its own issues and only using the child as a proxy. The child is there and they are
smaller and weaker and the perpetrator can do this. It escalates.. after no
reprecussions from tamer prior abusive events. This is told over and over again by survivors.

 

[Eagle1]

I agree with you, Sharpar, that whoever killed her had his own issues and could do this to JonBenet because she was so much smaller and weaker and all alone with him at that moment, also that the abuse escalated.

But LE, all the way to the top, and I think most of us parents, strongly feel that the R's couldn't have done this. Some parents may be that sick, but not this couple, and there's some hard evidence it was an outsider, very jealous of them. One of the books I have, Smith's, mentions that the killer may have been thinking of some real-or-imagined slight from JR. I'm thinking he's murderously jealous simply because he's not one of the successful people, with beauty queen wife and child.

In an article about psychopaths, now called sociopaths, from a previous case, probably Laci, we learned that they're always failures at something or other, and want to make others failures too. They become skilled liars, extremely convincing liars about whoever they want to target, if that will prevent targets' success, maybe sometimes without murdering them, wanting them alive to suffer from knowing they failed. Probably it'd depend on how out-of-control the sociopath would be at the deciding moment.

 

[sharpar]

I am a parent too and I believe its the R's and highly unlikely its some weird perp who has remained undiscovered this long. I just dont buy that.