What do you think the Ramsey's original plan was...

[andreww]

Not brilliant at all if the reason Woody put Burke on the DP show was to get in front of a story CBS didn't have. No defamation attorney worth his salt would have voluntarily put someone who had never given a public interview before on national TV knowing he was planning a libel lawsuit shortly. Wood must have been concerned about getting something out first. Granted, Burke was likely an involuntary public figure regardless, but you never know how a judge might rule and there's a chance he could have been considered a private figure. Not now. Thanks to his DP interview Burke is now a full-on public figure. And this is potentially devastating to his defamation suit.

The CBS special was in the can before DP ever sat down with Burke. It was a pre-emptive defence. Nonetheless, when I said brilliant I was only referring to the flashlight smokescreen.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The CBS special was in the can before DP ever sat down with Burke. It was a pre-emptive defence. Nonetheless, when I said brilliant I was only referring to the flashlight smokescreen.

I don't see any smokescreen.

What specifically about it do you think was preemptive?

As far as the libel suit goes, it doesn't matter that it was already in the can. What matters is that Burke voluntarily allowed himself to be interviewed (and allegedly compensated for said interview) in a three part episode that aired across the world before the CBS broadcast. He easily could have kept quiet like he had for the prior 20 years. Woody will try to claim otherwise but he's a public figure for sure now and this is not helpful at all for his suit. It could, in fact, kill his lawsuit. So why was the interview done?

 

[andreww]

I don't see any smokescreen.

What specifically about it do you think was preemptive?

As far as the libel suit goes, it doesn't matter that it was already in the can. What matters is that Burke voluntarily allowed himself to be interviewed (and allegedly compensated for said interview) in a three part episode that aired across the world before the CBS broadcast. He easily could have kept quiet like he had for the prior 20 years. Woody will try to claim otherwise but he's a public figure for sure now and this is not helpful at all for his suit. It could, in fact, kill his lawsuit. So why was the interview done?

Why would it kill his lawsuit. He is right that Burke has lived in anonymity for 20 years, and in the eyes of a judge, may not be considered a public figure. What he did after the CBS special has no bearing on that.

The story about the flashlight is a smokescreen. They have a complete story out there about the movements of it, yet neither Ramsey has admitted touching it. I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[kanzz]

Why would it kill his lawsuit. He is right that Burke has lived in anonymity for 20 years, and in the eyes of a judge, may not be considered a public figure. What he did after the CBS special has no bearing on that.

The story about the flashlight is a smokescreen. They have a complete story out there about the movements of it, yet neither Ramsey has admitted touching it. I don't know how else to explain it.

andreww - The Phil show wasn't after the CBS special.

As HarmonyE. said:
"What matters is that Burke voluntarily allowed himself to be interviewed (and allegedly compensated for said interview) in a three part episode that aired across the world before the CBS broadcast."

 

[HarmonyE.]

Why would it kill his lawsuit. He is right that Burke has lived in anonymity for 20 years, and in the eyes of a judge, may not be considered a public figure. What he did after the CBS special has no bearing on that.

The story about the flashlight is a smokescreen. They have a complete story out there about the movements of it, yet neither Ramsey has admitted touching it. I don't know how else to explain it.

I didn't say it would, only that it very well could, given how high the bar is for public figures in defamation suits.

You can't voluntarily go on a national television program for three consecutive days to discuss the murder of your sister and it's aftermath and expect future courts to deem you a private citizen. He's a public figure. He may have been considered an involuntary one previously, or maybe not, but there's little doubt he's not a private citizen for the purposes of these suits now.

Lin Wood is a very competent attorney; he knew the risk of this when he allowed Burke to be interviewed. Maybe Burke went against counsel's advice, but he seems a passive sort to me. So if Woody okayed the interview, he must have had reasons that outweighed the possibility of having any present or future defamation suits dismissed on First Amendment grounds.

You may want to listen to this defamation defense attorney's comments rather than take my word for anything.

http://craigsilverman.podbean.com/ Jan 7 Hour 2. About 22 minutes in.

 

[icedtea4me]

burke might not have remembered it but john seems to remember taking it up. So the fact that it ended up back downstairs in the morning and john and patsy never got out of bed, suggests burke used it. But here i am applying logic to what is likely a fabrication anyway lol.


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lmfao!

 

[AndHence]

The Ramseys plan is hard to discern because we don't know if John and Patsy were both in on the cover-up from the start. If they were, why does John offer up the pad that the ransom note and practice note were found to have been written on? He either doesn't suspect/know that Patsy is the author of the note or is clueless that she has used this exact pad to pen the note. (There is an outside chance that he was throwing Patsy under the bus here, and I'm open to exploring that.)

 

[Rott Mom]

The Ramseys plan is hard to discern because we don't know if John and Patsy were both in on the cover-up from the start. If they were, why does John offer up the pad that the ransom note and practice note were found to have been written on? He either doesn't suspect/know that Patsy is the author of the note or is clueless that she has used this exact pad to pen the note. (There is an outside chance that he was throwing Patsy under the bus here, and I'm open to exploring that.)

Wow - good point.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

The Ramseys plan is hard to discern because we don't know if John and Patsy were both in on the cover-up from the start. If they were, why does John offer up the pad that the ransom note and practice note were found to have been written on? He either doesn't suspect/know that Patsy is the author of the note or is clueless that she has used this exact pad to pen the note. (There is an outside chance that he was throwing Patsy under the bus here, and I'm open to exploring that.)

If I had to hazard a guess, it was JR sowing the seeds of PR guilt, just in case their story collapsed under questioning. He was very clear to the police which pad and pens were his and which were Patsy's.

 

[andreww]

If I had to hazard a guess, it was JR sowing the seeds of PR guilt, just in case their story collapsed under questioning. He was very clear to the police which pad and pens were his and which were Patsy's.

John was being helpful when cops arrived. He said he'd checked that all doors were locked, and he made no mention of the broken and supposedly open window and suitcase. If he'd been in on the intruder plan from the beginning, why would he do that? The earliest lie he tells is that Burke was in bed, but possibly he's just trying to keep him out of the investigation, possibly just to protect him or maybe because he is already suspecting something is amiss.


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[andreww]

andreww - The Phil show wasn't after the CBS special.

As HarmonyE. said:
"What matters is that Burke voluntarily allowed himself to be interviewed (and allegedly compensated for said interview) in a three part episode that aired across the world before the CBS broadcast."

The DP show was certainly filmed after the CBS special. When it aired is irrelevant. CBS cannot say they did that show because BR was a public figure having appeared on DP. CBS made the show long before DP was even an idea. So the question becomes whether Burke was a celebrity previous to DP? We know he appeared briefly on Barbara Walters special earlier in the year and that he was not omitted from the Ramseys books, so I would say yes.


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[Disgusted]

The DP show was certainly filmed after the CBS special. When it aired is irrelevant. CBS cannot say they did that show because BR was a public figure having appeared on DP. CBS made the show long before DP was even an idea. So the question becomes whether Burke was a celebrity previous to DP? We know he appeared briefly on Barbara Walters special earlier in the year and that he was not omitted from the Ramseys books, so I would say yes.

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You are categorically 100% wrong on this. The exact opposite is true, in fact. The only thing that matters is publication date. I, you, CBS or anyone else could write a book or create a show saying whatever we wanted and it is in no way actionable until published.

In fact, if it came to this (and it won't) CBS could simply say they were still weighing whether or not to air the show, right up until B made himself undeniably a full public figure with the Dr P show.

However, case law already crushes this case. The first thing CBS should cite is the ruling in the Fox case. The media has a right to discuss this case and to present other sides of the story. The R's can not be allowed to be the only ones to present their side, and the judge in the Fox case made that very clear.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The DP show was certainly filmed after the CBS special. When it aired is irrelevant. CBS cannot say they did that show because BR was a public figure having appeared on DP. CBS made the show long before DP was even an idea. So the question becomes whether Burke was a celebrity previous to DP? We know he appeared briefly on Barbara Walters special earlier in the year and that he was not omitted from the Ramseys books, so I would say yes.


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Again, you may want to listen to the podcast I provided you a link to. You aren't understanding how the laws apply.

 

[Miz Adventure]

John was being helpful when cops arrived. He said he'd checked that all doors were locked, and he made no mention of the broken and supposedly open window and suitcase. If he'd been in on the intruder plan from the beginning, why would he do that? The earliest lie he tells is that Burke was in bed, but possibly he's just trying to keep him out of the investigation, possibly just to protect him or maybe because he is already suspecting something is amiss.


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John told three separate investigators (who wrote it down in their notebooks) that he had checked the house was locked before he went to bed. He later denied saying this.

I have to assume that he initially wanted the police to think the house had been locked the night before so that he could then (later) tell them that he had found an open window in the basement, which had been closed the night before when he checked.

 

[andreww]

John told three separate investigators (who wrote it down in their notebooks) that he had checked the house was locked before he went to bed. He later denied saying this.

I have to assume that he initially wanted the police to think the house had been locked the night before so that he could then (later) tell them that he had found an open window in the basement, which had been closed the night before when he checked.

Why didn't he tell them about the open window then? That didn't happen until 4 months later. I feel John was telling the truth when he told three different investigators the house was locked. Again, that story changes later as well.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Why didn't he tell them about the open window then? That didn't happen until 4 months later. I feel John was telling the truth when he told three different investigators the house was locked. Again, that story changes later as well.

Maybe he was hoping/assuming they'd find the broken window and suitcase and come to their own conclusions about that being the point of entry. He knew a man could fit through there because he had done it. But he also knew he was the one who broke the window, not an intruder. I think he only later admitted he broke it because he may have mentioned to it a neighbor or co-worker around the time he was locked out and they could have been used to impeach his version of events.

 

[andreww]

Maybe he was hoping/assuming they'd find the broken window and suitcase and come to their own conclusions about that being the point of entry. He knew a man could fit through there because he had done it. But he also knew he was the one who broke the window, not an intruder. I think he only later admitted he broke it because he may have mentioned to it a neighbor or co-worker around the time he was locked out and they could have been used to impeach his version of events.

He couldn't say the window wasn't previously broken because there was no broken glass to support that. The problem with that window is that it was closed. John later said he found it open and shut it without telling anybody. I suggest that never happened. The things John said that morning do nothing to help the story of an intruder. It wasn't until his first interview that he had a story in place.

 

[Miz Adventure]

He couldn't say the window wasn't previously broken because there was no broken glass to support that. The problem with that window is that it was closed. John later said he found it open and shut it without telling anybody. I suggest that never happened. The things John said that morning do nothing to help the story of an intruder. It wasn't until his first interview that he had a story in place.

If you were searching the house looking for a place an intruder could have gained entry - and you discovered an open window in the basement, you wouldn't shut it would you? You'd go and tell the police what you had found.

None of the events, according to JR - happened in the way he says.

And I agree with the poster who says that John told people he had already broken the window because he had already mentioned doing so at the time. Didn't Patsy state that Merv Hoffman-Pugh was scheduled to replace it but never got around to it?

 

[Userid]

The Ramseys plan is hard to discern because we don't know if John and Patsy were both in on the cover-up from the start. If they were, why does John offer up the pad that the ransom note and practice note were found to have been written on? He either doesn't suspect/know that Patsy is the author of the note or is clueless that she has used this exact pad to pen the note. (There is an outside chance that he was throwing Patsy under the bus here, and I'm open to exploring that.)

Good point, but perhaps he did so out of sheer nervousness. Perhaps he was caught off-guard when police asked him to supply them with writing samples from around the house -- meaning, this was one facet neither he nor PR had really thought of beforehand -- and once police asked, he simply panicked and gave them the writing pad because A) he knew (or at least, thought) that police had to have seen the pads already, as they were near where the ransom note was found and B) thought it would be too suspicious to NOT give them the pads.

 

[UKGuy]

The Ramseys plan is hard to discern because we don't know if John and Patsy were both in on the cover-up from the start. If they were, why does John offer up the pad that the ransom note and practice note were found to have been written on? He either doesn't suspect/know that Patsy is the author of the note or is clueless that she has used this exact pad to pen the note. (There is an outside chance that he was throwing Patsy under the bus here, and I'm open to exploring that.)

AndHence,
JR is throwing Patsy under the bus, he can elect to find other less incriminating samples.

JR flung nearly everyone close to him under the bus, except for the Stines, they got jobs and a stipend.

That will explain why JR had separate attorneys for himself and Patsy, he thought the staging might not work, and he would have to contest a case, on this basis everyone else was available to be framed or setup.

JR was in on this from the start, he likely revised a prior staging, otherwise how would he know to head straight for the wine-cellar, not left or right, into the crawl space, etc?

JR was probably in bed, when BR told PR JonBenet had an accident in her bedroom, BR having minimally cleaned JonBenet up. Patsy either takes charge and starts staging in the basement, or she calls out for JR who assists from there?

Lets face it dealing with a dead body on Christmas Night, by one person, would not be plain sailing?

.