What do you think the Ramsey's original plan was...

[HarmonyE.]

You could omit the part about Jonbenet screamin and the rest still be relevant. It could fit into almost any theory. The part that interests me most is Burke being put to bed with a flashlight.

I don't believe for a second that he was. This is a brand new lie. I do believe Lin Wood was very concerned that CBS appeared from promos to be fixated on the flashlight and he wanted to make sure there was an innocent excuse in case they gained access to testing that forensically connected John and Burke to that flashlight. Of course, CBS did not reveal any such thing, but Woody couldn't be sure in advance of the broadcast. This also leads me to believe that Wood knows - or believes - the flashlight was indeed the weapon.

 

[cubbeegirl]

Isn't it a bit weird that after all these years of being told Burke was tucked away in his bed fast asleep with visions of sugarplums dancing in his head, that we now have Burke not only awake , but with a flashlight as well ?
Just sayin...

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Isn't it a bit weird that after all these years of being told Burke was tucked away in his bed fast asleep with visions of sugarplums dancing in his head, that we now have Burke not only awake , but with a flashlight as well ?
Just sayin...

And all the more strange that we heard it from Burke himself on national television. This case is truly bizarre.


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[SS 396 SS]

First he says his dad put him to bed with a flashlight. Then he says he was up runnin round the house with a flashlight. Did his dad give it to him after he tucked him in or did he sneak into his dads room and take it. Then there's the flashlight that John Ramsey would have us believe belonged to an intruder. That's a lot of flashlights.

 

[icedtea4me]

Isn't it a bit weird that after all these years of being told Burke was tucked away in his bed fast asleep with visions of sugarplums dancing in his head, that we now have Burke not only awake , but with a flashlight as well ?
Just sayin...

I do trust you will be able to provide proof that John left the flashlight with Burke.

 

[icedtea4me]

First he says his dad put him to bed with a flashlight. Then he says he was up runnin round the house with a flashlight. *snip*

I do trust you will be able to provide proof that Burke said "I was up runnin' 'round the house with a flashlight".

 

[TeaTime]

I do trust you will be able to provide proof that John left the flashlight with Burke.

If JR took the flashlight up to the master suite, then the killer had to retrieve it from there to kill JBR with it. Unless of course, you think it was left somewhere on the second floor and the killer just stumbled upon it by chance and, having not prepared for this crime beforehand, decided to use it to see his/her way in the dark AND to kill JBR with.

 

[TeaTime]

I don't believe for a second that he was. This is a brand new lie. I do believe Lin Wood was very concerned that CBS appeared from promos to be fixated on the flashlight and he wanted to make sure there was an innocent excuse in case they gained access to testing that forensically connected John and Burke to that flashlight. Of course, CBS did not reveal any such thing, but Woody couldn't be sure in advance of the broadcast. This also leads me to believe that Wood knows - or believes - the flashlight was indeed the weapon.

A neighbor saw the moving beam of a flashlight in the R house at around midnight. But you are correct, they were trying to get ahead of the possibility that DNA would put JR and BR all over that flashlight - the one JR couldn't recognize nor explain how it got from the kitchen drawer to the counter.

 

[HarmonyE.]

First he says his dad put him to bed with a flashlight. Then he says he was up runnin round the house with a flashlight. Did his dad give it to him after he tucked him in or did he sneak into his dads room and take it. Then there's the flashlight that John Ramsey would have us believe belonged to an intruder. That's a lot of flashlights.

This is how it went down. Dr. Phil brought up the flashlight saying "I think your Dad had said he used a flashlight to put you to bed that night". Whoa? What? When has this ever been said by JR? Dr. Phil continued by saying "And then you went downstairs to play?" Burke: "Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kind of in bed." Dr. Phil: "Did you use a flashlight so you wouldn't be seen?" Burke:"I don't remember." Burke never confirmed he used the flashlight for any reason that night.

But this is a very bizarre exchange. Dr. Phil is using a previously unheard version of events to ask completely leading questions of Burke, placing a flashlight directly in John's hands and raising the possibility that Burke handled it that night as well.

Why was this done? My own guess is that Dr. Phil was told by Lin Wood (his pal and personal attorney) to lead Burke down this path because he was worried that CBS had access to forensics that showed John and Burke handled the flashlight and he wanted Dr. Phil to help him explain it away in advance of the broadcast. What other earthly reason would Dr. Phil have for bringing up a brand new, nonsense story? John Ramsey did not need a flashlight to put his son to bed! No one has ever heard about a power outage or other reason why light switches in the house weren't working as normal. Dr. Phil created this and Burke played along, never admitting he touched a flashlight that night but leaving upon the possibility that he may have used it to sneak downstairs. He's just not sure.

Insane.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*John Ramsey did not need a flashlight to put his son to bed! No one has ever heard about a power outage or other reason why light switches in the house weren't working as normal. *snip*

Well, perhaps John needed the flashlight for another purpose.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Well, perhaps John needed the flashlight for another purpose.

The purpose of the Wood/Dr. Phil set up was to create an innocent reason for Burke to have handled the flashlight, not John. CBS didn't conclude John used the flashlight to bash JBR in the head. But in advance of the CBS broadcast, Lin/Phil apparently felt they needed a simple explanation for a flashlight to be within Burke's easy reach for his late wanderings, otherwise he would have had to seek and find it on his own, and such an admission might not look too good. What to do? Let's create a brand new story about John leading Burke to bed with a flashlight and imply that perhaps Burke simply grabbed it off his bedside table to sneak downstairs after everyone else was in bed. He can't remember for sure, of course, but he very well might have used it. Innocent Reason For Burke To Have Handled Flashlight - Check.

 

[TeaTime]

I, too, think they got nervous that someone's DNA would be found on the flashlight now the BPD is sending off evidence for further DNA tests.

 

[andreww]

The purpose of the Wood/Dr. Phil set up was to create an innocent reason for Burke to have handled the flashlight, not John. CBS didn't conclude John used the flashlight to bash JBR in the head. But in advance of the CBS broadcast, Lin/Phil apparently felt they needed a simple explanation for a flashlight to be within Burke's easy reach for his late wanderings, otherwise he would have had to seek and find it on his own, and such an admission might not look too good. What to do? Let's create a brand new story about John leading Burke to bed with a flashlight and imply that perhaps Burke simply grabbed it off his bedside table to sneak downstairs after everyone else was in bed. He can't remember for sure, of course, but he very well might have used it. Innocent Reason For Burke To Have Handled Flashlight - Check.

Burke might not have remembered it but John seems to remember taking it up. So the fact that it ended up back downstairs in the morning and John and Patsy never got out of bed, suggests Burke used it. But here I am applying logic to what is likely a fabrication anyway lol.


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[andreww]

This is how it went down. Dr. Phil brought up the flashlight saying "I think your Dad had said he used a flashlight to put you to bed that night". Whoa? What? When has this ever been said by JR? Dr. Phil continued by saying "And then you went downstairs to play?" Burke: "Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kind of in bed." Dr. Phil: "Did you use a flashlight so you wouldn't be seen?" Burke:"I don't remember." Burke never confirmed he used the flashlight for any reason that night.

But this is a very bizarre exchange. Dr. Phil is using a previously unheard version of events to ask completely leading questions of Burke, placing a flashlight directly in John's hands and raising the possibility that Burke handled it that night as well.

Why was this done? My own guess is that Dr. Phil was told by Lin Wood (his pal and personal attorney) to lead Burke down this path because he was worried that CBS had access to forensics that showed John and Burke handled the flashlight and he wanted Dr. Phil to help him explain it away in advance of the broadcast. What other earthly reason would Dr. Phil have for bringing up a brand new, nonsense story? John Ramsey did not need a flashlight to put his son to bed! No one has ever heard about a power outage or other reason why light switches in the house weren't working as normal. Dr. Phil created this and Burke played along, never admitting he touched a flashlight that night but leaving upon the possibility that he may have used it to sneak downstairs. He's just not sure.

Insane.

Insane or clever? They've put an explanation out there but they are not stuck to it because John never said it on record and Burke never confirmed it.


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[HarmonyE.]

Insane or clever? They've put an explanation out there but they are not stuck to it because John never said it on record and Burke never confirmed it.


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They were trying to be clever, but I go with insane because no Ramsey or member of team Ramsey has ever deliberately placed Burke in such close proximity to the likely murder weapon before. Dr. Phil didn't just pull that question out of a hat; that was a planned question that Wood, Phil, and Burke scripted out. The only reasonable explanation for making up a story about John bringing a flashlight into Burke's room is because they were trying to get in front of something they thought CBS may have that involved the flashlight that pointed in some way to Burke, or may have raised the perception of incrimination. CBS never went there and now Woody has a defamation client he put on national TV for no valid reason. If Burke did the show to admit to being very near a flashlight (to cover any possible forensics CBS was in possession of) and confirm he had shoes that were almost certainly Hi-Teks, he did nothing to help his defamation case and instead made it more certain that he would be deemed a public figure with regard to his libel case. In other words if that was the plan, it backfired. CBS didn't address any forensics related to the flashlight and spent no time on the Hi-Tek print.

 

[UKGuy]

The purpose of the Wood/Dr. Phil set up was to create an innocent reason for Burke to have handled the flashlight, not John. CBS didn't conclude John used the flashlight to bash JBR in the head. But in advance of the CBS broadcast, Lin/Phil apparently felt they needed a simple explanation for a flashlight to be within Burke's easy reach for his late wanderings, otherwise he would have had to seek and find it on his own, and such an admission might not look too good. What to do? Let's create a brand new story about John leading Burke to bed with a flashlight and imply that perhaps Burke simply grabbed it off his bedside table to sneak downstairs after everyone else was in bed. He can't remember for sure, of course, but he very well might have used it. Innocent Reason For Burke To Have Handled Flashlight - Check.

HarmonyE,
It could be that. Yet if nobody knew about JonBenet's head injury until the autopsy, how did JR know that the flashlight caused the head injury?

It could be the case is JDI and JR is using Dr Phil and BR to cover for himself?

Which room are you suggesting BR found the flashlight?

Finding JR or BR's dna on the flashlight will not be a smoking gun. Finding traces from JonBenet will and likely make BR prime suspect?

I listened to Dr Phil again, and its JR that Dr Phil quotes as saying your father said he used the flashlight to put you to bed and you snuck back downstairs and BR just agrees to it all.

Watching BR's facial expressions just before DP puts the questions I have the impression BR is lying, but I'm not certain who its for?

One thing is certain BR knows who killed JonBenet.

.

 

[HarmonyE.]

HarmonyE,
It could be that. Yet if nobody knew about JonBenet's head injury until the autopsy, how did JR know that the flashlight caused the head injury?

It could be the case is JDI and JR is using Dr Phil and BR to cover for himself?

Which room are you suggesting BR found the flashlight?

Finding JR or BR's dna on the flashlight will not be a smoking gun. Finding traces from JonBenet will and likely make BR prime suspect?

I listened to Dr Phil again, and its JR that Dr Phil quotes as saying your father said he used the flashlight to put you to bed and you snuck back downstairs and BR just agrees to it all.

Watching BR's facial expressions just before DP puts the questions I have the impression BR is lying, but I'm not certain who its for?

One thing is certain BR knows who killed JonBenet.

.

UKGuy - to your bolded, I am not saying that at all. I'm saying the story is a new lie made up by Lin Wood.

Also, Burke did not "agree to it all". Burke was non-committal on the whole thing, but did not deny he used a flashlight, only that he wasn't sure. So his story is that maybe he did.

Wood was very concerned about something or he would not have put that twitchy manchild on TV knowing he was going to sue CBS after the broadcast. The story about John bringing the flashlight up to Burke's room is brand spanking new and obviously a lie. Putting 2 and 2 together, Woody was concerned CBS had some sort of information involving a flashlight that could harm his client's claim of innocence. I am not saying CBS has a smoking gun. But I think Woody was sufficiently paranoid about that flashlight to make sure he came up with an innocent explanation for Burke having possibly handled it that night. I can't see any other explanation for the obviously planned exchange between Dr. Phil and Burke.

 

[andreww]

UKGuy - to your bolded, I am not saying that at all. I'm saying the story is a new lie made up by Lin Wood.

Also, Burke did not "agree to it all". Burke was non-committal on the whole thing, but did not deny he used a flashlight, only that he wasn't sure. So his story is that maybe he did.

Wood was very concerned about something or he would not have put that twitchy manchild on TV knowing he was going to sue CBS after the broadcast. The story about John bringing the flashlight up to Burke's room is brand spanking new and obviously a lie. Putting 2 and 2 together, Woody was concerned CBS had some sort of information involving a flashlight that could harm his client's claim of innocence. I am not saying CBS has a smoking gun. But I think Woody was sufficiently paranoid about that flashlight to make sure he came up with an innocent explanation for Burke having possibly handled it that night. I can't see any other explanation for the obviously planned exchange between Dr. Phil and Burke.

Just like how the story of Burke being asleep during the 911 call took a left turn when it came to light that maybe his voice was on the tape. Nothing new here.

 

[andreww]

HarmonyE,
It could be that. Yet if nobody knew about JonBenet's head injury until the autopsy, how did JR know that the flashlight caused the head injury?

It could be the case is JDI and JR is using Dr Phil and BR to cover for himself?

Which room are you suggesting BR found the flashlight?

Finding JR or BR's dna on the flashlight will not be a smoking gun. Finding traces from JonBenet will and likely make BR prime suspect?

I listened to Dr Phil again, and its JR that Dr Phil quotes as saying your father said he used the flashlight to put you to bed and you snuck back downstairs and BR just agrees to it all.

Watching BR's facial expressions just before DP puts the questions I have the impression BR is lying, but I'm not certain who its for?

One thing is certain BR knows who killed JonBenet.

.

You are correct, John's DNA on the flashlight has no relevance. However trace DNA from JBs scalp plus Burke's DNA is incriminating. They needed to explain how the flashlight got from the drawer to the kitchen counter. So John takes it out (no admission on his part) and conveniently leaves it with Burke (no admission here either). Its more of a smoke screen than anything. Its there as an explanation but it can immediately go away if John says he never touched the flashlight and that DP was misinformed. Its actually a brilliant strategy by LW, I'll give him that.

 

[HarmonyE.]

You are correct, John's DNA on the flashlight has no relevance. However trace DNA from JBs scalp plus Burke's DNA is incriminating. They needed to explain how the flashlight got from the drawer to the kitchen counter. So John takes it out (no admission on his part) and conveniently leaves it with Burke (no admission here either). Its more of a smoke screen than anything. Its there as an explanation but it can immediately go away if John says he never touched the flashlight and that DP was misinformed. Its actually a brilliant strategy by LW, I'll give him that.

Not brilliant at all if the reason Woody put Burke on the DP show was to get in front of a story CBS didn't have. No defamation attorney worth his salt would have voluntarily put someone who had never given a public interview before on national TV knowing he was planning a libel lawsuit shortly. Wood must have been concerned about getting something out first. Granted, Burke was likely an involuntary public figure regardless, but you never know how a judge might rule and there's a chance he could have been considered a private figure. Not now. Thanks to his DP interview Burke is now a full-on public figure. And this is potentially devastating to his defamation suit.