What was John wearing the morning of Dec. 26?

[BlueCrab]

Just because one has been rendered unconscious from a blow to the head does not mean that their heart has stopped beating.


-Tea

icedtea,

I agree. But this hit was not a gentle bop on the head that many of us have experienced at one time or another during our lifetimes. This crushing hit on the head, probably with a baseball bat, caved in the entire top-right-side of JonBenet's skull. I doubt if anyone could have lived through that for more than a second or two.

Yet there were petechial hemorrhages on JonBenet's neck and eyelids, which means she wasn't dead when strangled. Petechial hemorrhages are caused by the heart trying to pump blood through the veins and arteries but prevented to do so by an obstruction (in this case the rope ligature around the neck), causing the backed up blood pressure to pop out numerous little red and purple hemorrhages on the skin. Therefore, the strangulation likely came first because dead bodies can't pump blood.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab

The only person I believe the parents might cover for is Burke - and I can't imagine him doing it.

Alexi,

Yes, Burke is the only person the parents might cover for -- yet they are covering.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

Just popping in. How about another young person, who might have been B's friend, and WE all know who that would have been.

IT would also explain the 'thicker than thieves' friendship that developed AFTER JonBenet's death among the two sets of parents that KNEW the facts.

IF IF covering parents for two young boys, that knew the HOW of HOW and the WHY of WHY it happened. Parents very well could have colluded and covered forever.

Part accident, part not, LE looking sideways, DA Hunter mumbling and bumbling his way through a DO nuthing term of office, then disappearing into the woodwork in a retiring mode, never to speak nor be asked about IT again.

DA Mary MAY know too, would she not be super dumbell Dora if she didn't? I am the sort of person who IF IF IF I had taken the office - fresh and ready, would have dug out all the information I could find, and ask Questions, but not Mary. At least that is what WE have been led to believe.

Neither boy could be prosecuted, but by virtue of their friendship would be forever tainted, IF IF WE knew the truth, WE meaning that part of the world where news still goes.

IF I recall JR was wearing fresh clothing, I won't go further but I do remember thinking they were clean and fresh. Get on with the business of the day dress, and my dim memory recalls. So why wasn't PR doing the same? I personally would have made myself comfy, tidy and ready for the flight, NOT wearing my same party clothes from the night before.

.

There are many questions WE may never have answers to.

.

 

[rashomon]

Who suggested that the garrote was a design or elaborate , it was actually crude and unsophisticated.

Lou Smit did a good PR job on the pedophile intruder who constructed a garrote in a professional manner!

This rhetoric reminds me of argument from intelligent design and emergence.

A quick look at the autopsy photograph http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote3.jpg complete with JonBenet's hair still embedded into it will tell you how professional that is, also like her underwear there is still a piece of the paintbrush missing, why remove this and leave the other piece? I have speculated it was inserted inside JonBenet and that this has been redacted from the autopsy report. The staging is so visibly amateur that this adjective applies to the garrote in particular.


A more relevant question may be why construct a garrote at all? When the cord wrapped around JonBenet's neck may have been sufficient?

UkGuy,
You hit it dead center in calling the garrote "crude and unsophisticated".
A kindergartner can do that: wrap some cord around a stick. To call this an 'elaborate' garrote (like Smit did) borders on the comical.

And very good question: why construct that contraption at all? It was both unnecessary for strangling and also totally ineffective as a "breath control device", for there was a fixed knot and not an adjustable noose. And JB's hair was found entwined both in the knot and in the wrappings around the stick, which also points miles away from any scenario where a noose was applied.
Imo it points straight to a scenario where the stager of the scene wrapped a piece of cord around the unconscious child's neck, tied a knot and then clumsily wrapped the remaining cord around a stick to make it look as bizarre as possible.

If he is so certain why the internal cranial and vaginal bleeding?

Delmar England is of the opinion that the head blow came first, sending the child into a coma, and that the vaginal injury was inflicted later for staging purposes. The garrote was then constructed for staging purposes too.

 

[Ames]

Just because one has been rendered unconscious from a blow to the head does not mean that their heart has stopped beating.


-Tea

Exactly! I believe that the headblow came first, and then the strangulation...because of the lack of skin under her nails, and marks on her neck from clawing. See below...

"Personal Experience. Internet poster Ames was temporarily strangled as a 9-year-old schoolgirl. Based on this experience, she is certain that if JBR had been still conscious while strangled, she would have clawed extensively at her neck to avoid the terrifying experience of being strangled. The absence of deep neck scratches implies to this poster that JBR must have already been unconscious from the head blow."


http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Interpreting%20the%20Evidence#WhichCameFirstHeadBloworStrangulation


Check it out....click on AMES...and read what I posted on another board.

 

[JMO8778]

So why wasn't PR doing the same? I personally would have made myself comfy, tidy and ready for the flight, NOT wearing my same party clothes from the night before.

.

yea,esp. since she said went out of her way to say she made sure she had makeup on b/c Melinda's fiance would be there...so why not fresh clothes, too?makes no sense.
I wonder if anyone has ever considered the fact that she my have been wearing fresh makeup as part of concealing something(or one or more things)?I know concealer can cover almost anything ..that goes for on JR as well.Surely she would have owned some.I know her arms and hands were ck'ed when she was fingerprinted..but was she wearing waterproof concealer that didn't show,unless you were really looking for it?What about JR as well..was he ck'ed? And even BR should have been,as well.If she owned professional makeup that covers flaws,it may have been hard to spot,and bruises don't sometimes come out until days later anyway.JAT.

 

[BlueCrab]

I believe that the headblow came first, and then the strangulation...because of the lack of skin under her nails, and marks on her neck from clawing.

Ames,

JonBenet's hands were lashed tpgether over her head.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

Ames,

JonBenet's hands were lashed tpgether over her head.

BlueCrab

That would seem to indicate that the hands were lashed AFTER the head blow. BC I don't remember ever having a source for the hand lashing over the head. Could you provide that source for us? OR tell me how I missed that please.

.

 

[rashomon]

Ames,

JonBenet's hands were lashed tpgether over her head.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

but the seventeen-inch (!) space of cord between the wrist ligatures would have allowed JB to move her hands. The fact that her hands were tied so loosely together is just another indicator of staging imo.
And if you scroll to the fifth photo down in this link, you can see the real postion of JB's arms: not 'above' her head like in the artist's rendition, but merely bent at the elbow.
The picture was obviously taken after she had been put (in full rigor mortis already) on the living room floor:

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

Ames: thanks for sharing your experience about being temporarily strangled. This crucial info only confirms me in my belief that JB too would have clawed at a cord which was pulled tightly around her neck. For this is the body's instinctive reaction to a potentially life-threatening situation. And since her wrists were not tied closely together at all, she would have been able to move her hands and claw at the cord.

 

[BBB167893]

but the seventeen-inch (!) space of cord beteen the wrist ligatures would have allowed JB to move her hands. The fact that her hands were tied so loosely together is just another indicator of staging imo.
And if you scroll to the fifth photo down in this link, you can see the real postion of JB's arms: not 'above' her head like in the artist's rendition, but merely bent at the elbow.

That wouldn't restrain a two-year-old.

Sounds like security was at the top of his priority list.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Solace]

That wouldn't restrain a two-year-old.



Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

SD, one problem I have with Patsy wearing the same clothes. If Patsy was wearing them all night and killed JonBenet in them and staged the scene in them and wrote the note, would not it be obvious from her clothes that she wore them all night and never went to bed. I would think she would be a mess. What do you think?

 

[Toaster]

The staging is so visibly amateur that this adjective applies to the garrote in particular.
A more relevant question may be why construct a garrote at all? When the cord wrapped around JonBenet's neck may have been sufficient?

I think Patsy was still mad at JB for wetting the bed and all the other things JB did bad and one was that JB never wanted to paint so Patsy wanted to finish killing her with a paintbrush.

 

[icedtea4me]

I think Patsy was still mad at JB for wetting the bed and all the other things JB did bad and one was that JB never wanted to paint so Patsy wanted to finish killing her with a paintbrush.

Such nonsense.


-Tea

 

[coloradokares]

Such nonsense.


-Tea

Agreed total nonsense

 

[Ames]

BlueCrab,

but the seventeen-inch (!) space of cord between the wrist ligatures would have allowed JB to move her hands. The fact that her hands were tied so loosely together is just another indicator of staging imo.
And if you scroll to the fifth photo down in this link, you can see the real postion of JB's arms: not 'above' her head like in the artist's rendition, but merely bent at the elbow.
The picture was obviously taken after she had been put (in full rigor mortis already) on the living room floor:

Thanks for posting this about the 17 inch space of cord between the wrist ligatures. I was trying to reply back to BlueCrab, saying the same thing that you did...(before I read your post)...and I had trouble posting for some reason. So, I was glad that you posted this about the huge space of cord. You know...I just had a thought...(stand back everybody...this is a rare occasion)...I wonder, if maybe...the wrist ligature was an afterthought...that was done after everything else...including the writing of the ransom letter..and maybe rigormortis had already started setting in...and the wrists were tied that way, because thats as close as Patsy or John could get them. What do you think? I may start a thread about this...and a poll.

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

Ames

: thanks for sharing your experience about being temporarily strangled. This crucial info only confirms me in my belief that JB too would have clawed at a cord which was pulled tightly around her neck. For this is the body's instinctive reaction to a potentially life-threatening situation. And since her wrists were not tied closely together at all, she would have been able to move her hands and claw at the cord.

You are welcome, I just wanted to give you guys a perspective from someone that had actually gone through being strangled. Another poster, wrote that her boyfriend had strangled her when she was 20, and that she didn't claw at him, because it happened so fast, and she passed out. But, I believe that there would be a difference between someone being strangled with hands...and someone strangled with a cord. Someone that is strangling another person with their bare hands, can wrap their hands all the way around a person's neck, and cut off their airway alot more quickly. With a cord...from behind...its just not the same...it takes longer, because the person is pulling from behind, using another object (the string or cord)...instead of just squeezing with their bare hands.

 

[Toaster]

Agreed total nonsense

She is a psycho and she did a lot of crazy things that night.
Well if you think it's nonsense, you must have a good reason Patsy used a paintbrush of hers for this noose thing that isn't nonsense?

 

[Solace]

I think Patsy was still mad at JB for wetting the bed and all the other things JB did bad and one was that JB never wanted to paint so Patsy wanted to finish killing her with a paintbrush.

Toaster: I am not sure you are posting the above to get a reaction of any kind or not, but if you keep this sort of thing up, I am going to have to question if you are serious.

 

[coloradokares]

She is a psycho and she did a lot of crazy things that night.
Well if you think it's nonsense, you must have a good reason Patsy used a paintbrush of hers for this noose thing that isn't nonsense?

Yes expediency. I mean one must have tools to stage.

 

[Toaster]

Yes expediency. I mean one must have tools to stage.

That's your best answer? A lot of posters think the paintbrush wasn't needed for your so called staging, that the cord was enough.
Just because I think she was actually strangled with the cord and the paintbrush was a symbol of Patsy's anger, but you think it is all staging, so you discredit my theory as nonsense.
You don't even have a real explanation for the paintbrush. Yet everyone seems to think it points to Patsy as the creator of this strangling device.

I thought this sight was different. It seemed to be the only one where everyone believes the Ramseys are guilty. But I guess it's not open for discusion if we don't agree with you're theory. So that give you the right to say my opinions are just nonsense.

 

[Solace]

That's your best answer? A lot of posters think the paintbrush wasn't needed for your so called staging, that the cord was enough.
Just because I think she was actually strangled with the cord and the paintbrush was a symbol of Patsy's anger, but you think it is all staging, so you discredit my theory as nonsense.
You don't even have a real explanation for the paintbrush. Yet everyone seems to think it points to Patsy as the creator of this strangling device.

I thought this sight was different. It seemed to be the only one where everyone believes the Ramseys are guilty. But I guess it's not open for discusion if we don't agree with you're theory. So that give you the right to say my opinions are just nonsense.

I will go one step further. I am actually considering the idea that you are posting what you are posting for reaction sake or out of boredom. Probably reaction, any kind of attention will do, even if it is idiotic.