Where the Avery Conspiracy Theory Falls Apart

[CARIIS]

I had never heard of SA. I heard buzz about the doc. What kills me , as a therapist, is Brendon. I was just out of my mind as I watched them with him. For me Breneden is my heart pull

I tried to tell myself , over and over and over, that folks LE, court jury etc) dont have the training or experiance in this particular domain as I do just by choice of vocation.

But the more I saw the harder that became. One does not need a grad degree to grasp that this poor child has processing issues. I worked with LD children.

The best to way to do it --is ask your self what one would be thinking and feeling if they saw all these "adults" interacting with a 4 foot 3 5 year old.

Ask your self that right now - what feelings would you experience??

Not pleasant huh?

Brendon on most parameters is processing the world around him at a 5 year old level. Cognitive, socially emotionally, - thats why the word disability is in the clarification.

Growing up is "learning". They stop doing that, again why the entity is titled as it is. His affect throughout is so "off", that is how many of them are. When he asked if he would be done by two something I started crying.

That in and of itself ought to give anyone a very serious reality check that this individual is truly not grasping what is going on around him. They dont get it ---becasue they cant get it.

How adults who interacted with this poor child , did not grasp or were so focused on their own agenda , and did not care is a very disgusting reality as far a humanity goes.

IMO

In a sohpisticated urban envifonment this interagation would have been tossed faster than a lightening bolt. Talk about leading --as it kept going I was losing it. To do that to a 5 year old is IMO child abuse.

How on earth they got away with HOURS of time without an attorney is more than spinning. They hauled through Miranda so fast !~

Isnt that supposedly the core deal here - Miranda?

Again I ask you to picture a little 5 year old being in the room and ask yourself what your feeling and thinking would be as you watch the intergation. I am confident , a whole different emotionial experience for anyone.

where was a parent? Its mind numbing.


I thought the documentary was well done, SA attorneys nothing short of brillant - how come now today Miranda is not an issue??


Where did that go - we all learned it as kids in cops and robbers tv shows in the day. You have a right..................................

PS: As the doc moved along I came to adore the little gang (mom and dad!) - they live in thier own little world -- (issues for sure dont get me wrong), but they are just in their little planet, putting along!!

Brenden should be free IMO.............

One more PS! I think if I were trying to hide a vechicle, and I placed a bunch of junk around it to hide it (laughing now) I would have put something over the damn tire cover that screams RAV4 on it-- give me a break!

Fond memories of The Andy Griffin show ...................................

 

[CARIIS]

In addition, my blood planting would not look exactly like a Q-Tip - who bleeds that way?? Horizontally. When I bleed gravity takes hold!! Sideways? come on guys !!

 

[CARIIS]

I have no idea what this "means" He did it ? He was not there? He was getting gas to burn her?

anyone ?

[video=youtube;SStFZWa8Dg4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SStFZWa8Dg4[/video]

 

[Soulmagent]

I have no idea what this "means" He did it ? He was not there? He was getting gas to burn her?

anyone ?

[video=youtube;SStFZWa8Dg4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SStFZWa8Dg4[/video]

Maybe this guys DNA should be compared to item CX. He seems to be at all the crime scenes.

 

[CARIIS]

Re: He knew things no one else could possibly know

H was told, he was supposed to know these things otherwise he was being a "bad boy".. One needs to view him as a very large 5 year old and take it from there.

Intellectual disability involves impairments of general mental abilities that impact adaptive functioning
in three domains, or areas. These domains determine how well an individual copes with everyday tasks:
•
The conceptual domain includes skills in language, reading, writing, math, reasoning,
knowledge, and memory.
•
The social domain refers to empathy, social judgment, interpersonal communication skills, the ability to make and retain friendships, and similar capacities.
•
The practical domain centers on self-management in areas such as personal care, job
responsibilities, money management, recreation, and organizing school and work tasks.

http://www.dsm5.org/documents/intellectual disability fact sheet.pdf



things he was

I started reading the trial transcripts and let me just say that everyone who is only using the documentary to determine their opinion of guilt or innocence in this case has been snookered big time. The movie makers are only showing you what *they* want you to see, but they have purposely not shown evidence that defacto proves guilt of Avery.

As for Brendan, I think some of his rights were violated and he needs another trial, but he *did* share info with the police that not even the police knew about! Later, police were able to corroborate Brendan's account on several things. Brendan was there at the time of her being killed. He knew things no one else could possibly know unless they were there; things the cops didn't know. You can call that innocent if you want, but I'm not so sure. There were things done that only 2 people could have accomplished.

I call B.S. on Avery claiming his brothers or anyone else (including LE) could have murdered TH. Nope. The evidence doesn't point to anyone else and that's even if you decide to throw out the keys altogether and SA's blood evidence found in 6 places in TH's vehicle. BTW, SA had a cut in his middle finger of his right hand that was fairly deep. It was photographed. It was starting to heal by the time of the photo but it's plainly obvious that cut would have bled; it was not a simple scratch.

My challenge to all is this: look only at the evidence. Not the hyperbole of the filmmakers. Just the evidence. And all of the evidence was not shown or mentioned in the documentary. Use the trial transcripts. That's the evidence the jurors saw and heard about.

A well-stoked wood bonfire can exceed temperatures of about 1100 degrees

The temperature to for cremation 1600–1800 °F
https://www.google.com/#q=temperature+of+a+bonfire

I think we are a couple of houndred degrees off here !!

 

[CARIIS]

I think its an easy tempetation to look at the filmakers as attempting to slant the story. If you watch interviews by them you learn that had no interest in guilt or inooncence. There goal was solely to look a the system. .

There were like 240 hours of court. Obviously choices had to be made.

But the most important thing to IMO remain aware of is the lawyers, who knew the most, flet they did a great job in their choice making:

[video=youtube;2IpalmgaUKc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IpalmgaUKc[/video]

I started reading the trial transcripts and let me just say that everyone who is only using the documentary to determine their opinion of guilt or innocence in this case has been snookered big time. The movie makers are only showing you what *they* want you to see, but they have purposely not shown evidence that defacto proves guilt of Avery.

As for Brendan, I think some of his rights were violated and he needs another trial, but he *did* share info with the police that not even the police knew about! Later, police were able to corroborate Brendan's account on several things. Brendan was there at the time of her being killed. He knew things no one else could possibly know unless they were there; things the cops didn't know. You can call that innocent if you want, but I'm not so sure. There were things done that only 2 people could have accomplished.

I call B.S. on Avery claiming his brothers or anyone else (including LE) could have murdered TH. Nope. The evidence doesn't point to anyone else and that's even if you decide to throw out the keys altogether and SA's blood evidence found in 6 places in TH's vehicle. BTW, SA had a cut in his middle finger of his right hand that was fairly deep. It was photographed. It was starting to heal by the time of the photo but it's plainly obvious that cut would have bled; it was not a simple scratch.

My challenge to all is this: look only at the evidence. Not the hyperbole of the filmmakers. Just the evidence. And all of the evidence was not shown or mentioned in the documentary. Use the trial transcripts. That's the evidence the jurors saw and heard about.

 

[CARIIS]

For anyone who is doubting, a very disturbing LE role and action in this obserdity needs only to explain the following 3:36 of court video. Nothing more, IMO.

This is THE game changer , IMO, in its entirity....there is only one conclusion that can be made..............

[video=youtube;KpsRtPCWHoM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpsRtPCWHoM[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

Its a complicated system. Many comments I have read from the public seem to indicate the public feeling as if the filmakers beleive that SA is innocnent. That is just not true.

The filmakers only stance , from the hours of stuff they saw with their own eyes has led them to conclude, that the state did not eradicate "reasonable doubt" .

There is a world of difference between innocnet and reasonable doubt remaining.

The key angle here is we as lay people look to the system to do gulity or innoncennt. Thats not its function.

Here is a 11 sec clip of the producer on this issue :

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...ond-a-reasonable-doubt-filmmakers-say-w161565

 

[CARIIS]

Becasue of the complexites, IMO, it is our best bet to "listen" to those who know and experienced a lot more than we did. Two jurors would not have voted guilty - and in our system that would have resulted in aquittal. That is compelling information is it not?

[video=youtube;poMz9kURk4I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poMz9kURk4I[/video]

Earlier post
Pretty clear to me that they wanted me to believe things were planted.

They did not do that. They "informed" us that a key, easily visible not in early POLICE photos, had "appearred". They did not want IMO anyone to "believe" anything.

Conversly, using police photos, anyone with common sense would have to concude that the key, if there are along, with mutiple searches of a single wide mobile home, would have been seen , quickly on first pass, which then takes a reasoned person to pretty "understandable" conclusion.

When you then learn, that the two individuals most involved (ketstone cops) being in that room, on thier first unsupervised search, who find the keys, again back to a resoned persons conclusion that a pattern that makes sense is emerging.

Throw this on the tag video posted a few posts back, common snese takes us .........

 

[CARIIS]

Ironically now it's DNA tying him to his victim, along with the fact her charred body parts were found in the exact burn pit he used after her murder, but that's not believed by many.

""but that's not believed by many.[/QUOTE]""

I dont think it is about "belief". It is about an inabilty to disregard that the evidence container with the vile in it was illigally opened, because there was scotch tape over the the legal seal.

It is a reasonable conclusion that the only folks who would be able to get to the container, would be LE, and then discover that a syringe has been inserted into the vile one can only conclude that the purpose of inserting a syringe into a vile would be to extract what is inside the vile. That is not a "beleif", that just makes sense - it is logical.

I would love for someone to offer an explaination for a cop calling in liscense plate out of the blue, broken eviendece seals, vile of blood with hole in it , one vehicile on a lot full of vechicles, which appeared to be attempting to be hidden with RAV 4 tire cover visible for a half of mile, a finder of the car mysteriously being the only person with a camera,

discovered in 25 minutes , forensic bone evidence that can not be found in the condition it was by some marshmellow fire, a mysterious car crash involving Juror 11 daughter, two jurors who state they would not have voted for guilty, interogations (plural) conducted not once but on many occassions -all without an attorney present, a clients lawyer trying to force a confession by his own client.

Lets not forget clear evidence of department that is in its own universe (first case, another LE agency advising these bozos they have a confession on the rape in their jail whose eyes match the color reported, and who wears underwear(!) .

None of the above are beliefs, they are factual pieces of realitiy that the filmakers recorded, edited and released.

Pretty concrete actually.................

 

[CARIIS]

Thanx to Sluther 87 for link. But as I was looking at this I thought my god they really did swab a of stuff.

Not finding a speck of blood, anywhere where a stabbing, rape, decapation, slashing ,stabbing, dragging, placing, moving defies the the Forensic Files!

The only conclusion can be that the crime scene was not the tiny trailer or the crack filled garage floor.

IMo

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dfxmbm1i...-8''Exhibit 314 Culhane DNA analysis.PDF?dl=0

 

[CARIIS]

The issue I have with this is that LE was able to narrow it down pretty early to SA and for good reason. While 64% of the time it's the family, by the time it was a homicide investigation it was already easy to focus on the 36%.

90% of days it's nice and sunny, but if I hear thunder outside, damn right I'm bringing my umbrella.


Questionable for Dassey's trial for sure, but wasn't even included in Avery's trial.

But the key deal here is if they had not abused Brqanden they might not have been able to bring SA to trial - thats why they did all the illigal immoral stuff to Branden - to get SA!

 

[CARIIS]

Relatively safe ran a quick spell check!!


As true crime folks I do not think we have pondered "motive" enough. We all must remember the potential consequences of the civil suit for our two key players. Enormous.

It has been established that insurance would not cover any liabilities. Or to put that another way, no matter what the actual $ figures come out to be, we are talking about severe financial issues.

In addition, we are talking public humiliation, potential termination, possible criminal charges.

Their families well being was under threat financially.
Their children
Their spouses.
Their friends.
Their colleagues.
The department.
Th town.

We always seek "motive" in crimes and have seen hideous crimes committed because a threat to loved ones, employment, pride,prospect of criminal charges. To throw all these ingredients in one recipe - that's one big bowl of motivation .

SA convicted of the most severe charge around would certainly end the civil suit process.

That is a foregone conclusion.

Moreover, it isn't as if this gang of misfits has not already displayed dishonesty, fabrication, outright lying, breaking the law, and abusing their powers.

Adding insult to injury this department participated in the above mentioned activities for 18 years during the first time around.

It is stunning to me , in terms of the national dialog being entertained now as a result of this brill ant documentary that so many people appear to think that those of us who are appalled by the whole mess dint have a whole bunch of reasons to conclude that it is not, for this cast of players, a reality- no a hunch or possibility.

They have been unethical for decades - in fact, now that I pondered it for a moment, the likelihood of this group , with so much personally on the line, to start playing by the rules, is even more remote.

We also are not allowed , for a moment, to forget that chapter one of this mess is one SA, running some cops wife off a road and pointing rifle at her.

This stuff does not sit well with personalities (power /control issues) who want to engage in LE careers.

Do we have motive, IMO, without a doubt.......


Would love some help here guys. The amazing key:

I murdered someone. Why on earth am I going to "clean" the key?

I think we all agree that SA did not hire Rent A Maid! I just do not understand how finding SA DNA on a set of keys lying on the floor of SA bedroom would NOT have his dna on it? It would be impossilbe, even if she was only over there for a cup of tea!!

My dna is all over where I live? What does that prove? If they found the keys in the car and and my dna was on it well then maybe something.

But finding SA Dna on anything and everything where the guy lives means nothing, no ?

 

[CARIIS]

For a conspiracy theory to fall apart one must prove some element to the crime that had to happen in real terms as was claimed,as well as the conspiracy could not have happened based in factual evidence. We do not have proof of a death here. We have no proof of a murder .

We do have some DNA but in light of the clerks office bandit we also have very good evidence leading us to believe that planning on the part of who ever wanted SA to be found guilty ,is to be considered.

The leap most people make when considering is SA was set up is that they are either the murder themselves or letting a murder go free .

There is another option and that is TH is still alive . While it may seem it is the least likely, it makes the most sense when the evidence is presented on both sides of this case.

I am not "all in " for this theory but I think it should be considered.
Things to keep in mind about what was found are..

Steven Avery was questioned on Nov 3 at his home. The questions asked would have revealed that he
1. had a bonfire
2 used the golf cart
3 Called TH
4. Brendan was at his home.

Probably much more.

Search warrant issued reveal a .22
Later , after TH's DNA was collected from a tooth brush and a pap smear DNA was collected from a bullet recovered much later then the first warrants.
Steven Avery was given a soda can in his police interview which is on camera . What we are looking for in this case is evidence that LE could not have had access to in anyway shape or form in this case.

I have not found that evidence yet. Have you?

Hi Soul!

How dare you (smile now please!) forget a DNA vile with a syringe hole in it - shame on you!!!

Imo anyone who looks at the dashboard "blood" and does not see a Q Tip tip .................................

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In fariness to me (!) I knew nothing about this case until I started hearing all the buzz about the doc and viewed. So I was like a clean slate. There was no "debris" from the first charade with these currupt , repulsive officers of the law yuk!

It certainly was a joy that SA defnse team were awesome

 

[Tawny]

Hi Soul!

How dare you (smile now please!) forget a DNA vile with a syringe hole in it - shame on you!!!

Imo anyone who looks at the dashboard "blood" and does not see a Q Tip tip .................................

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In fariness to me (!) I knew nothing about this case until I started hearing all the buzz about the doc and viewed. So I was like a clean slate. There was no "debris" from the first charade with these currupt , repulsive officers of the law yuk!

It certainly was a joy that SA defnse team were awesome

FYI: Statement by Colborn says he was the officer who took samples of blood from SA's bathroom... using q-tips. I'M JUST SAYIN!

 

[CARIIS]

This explains why some of the other charges were dropped.A juror came fowoard recently and told the filmmakers that the jury "bargained" I will vote this if you vote that etc .

I sure as heck would be scared living there with a LE agency like that !

2:30

[video=youtube;BSOe9LROyno]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOe9LROyno[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

FYI: Statement by Colborn says he was the officer who took samples of blood from SA's bathroom... using q-tips. I'M JUST SAYIN!

Oh my lord.............its my understanding that the doc in itself cant really do anything to help him. But my hope is the white house petition will do something and those currupt folks go to prison, as SA roomate!! HA

At a very human level we are talking about moral compass. The prosec is sexting folks he is invovned via his job , moral compass (no issue with sexting whatever, but with a client displays some integrity issues !

Our little prosecutor

In October 2009, Kratz was prosecuting a domestic violence case against the boyfriend of a 26-year-old domestic violence victim. She filed a police report in Kaukauna, Wisconsin, alleging that Kratz had sent her 30 sexually coercive text messages over the span of three days.[SUP][12][/SUP] She said that she felt that he was trying to coerce her into a sexual relationship at the risk of dismissing the case against her boyfriend.[SUP][13][/SUP] The report was referred to the state's Division of Criminal Investigation. During the DCI investigation, two more women came forward accusing Kratz of harassing and intimidating them.[SUP][14][/SUP] At the time, Kratz was serving as chairman of the Wisconsin Crime Victims' Rights Board.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Kratz resigned in October 2010 after governor Jim Doyle sought his removal.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] After his accuser filed a federal civil suit against him, Kratz settled out of court in 2013.[SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP]
In June 2014, Kratz's law license was suspended for four months by the Wisconsin Supreme Court. During the disciplinary hearing, Kratz admitted abusing prescription drugs and being treated for sexual addiction and narcissistic personality disorder, [SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][1][/SUP] [SUP][18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Kratz#2009_Sexting_scandal

Charming huh:

"Are you the kind of girl that[/SUP] likes secret contact with an older married elected DA the riskier the better? Or do you want to stop right know [sic]before any issues?"

I'm the atty. I have the $350,000 house. I have the 6 figure career. you may be the tall, young, hot nymph, but I am

the prize! Start convincing," and that "I would not expect you

to be the other woman. I would want you to be so hot and treat me so well that you'd be THE woman. R U that good?"[SUP]

https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=113968
[/SUP]

• Forged evidence - an item or information manufactured, or altered, to support some agenda, is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.
• Planted evidence - an item or information which has been moved, or planted at a scene, to seem related to the accused party, is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.
• Tainted evidence - information which has been obtained by illegal means or has been revealed (or traced) using evidence acquired by illegal search, and/or seizure, is called the "fruit of the poisonous tree" and is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.
• Parallel construction - tainted evidence, where the origin of the evidence is untruthfully represented, preventing discussion of whether it was legally obtained or not.
• Suppressed evidence - an item or information which a court judge has ruled as "inadmissible" is forbidden to be presented in a court case. Suppressed evidence might be excluded because it was found hidden or locked away in areas the accused could not be proven to know.
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_evidence#Types

 

[CARIIS]

Although there is nothing funny about any of this, try to visualize the following in a "Beverly Hillbillies" mode ! For those of youth a hit sitcom years ago about country bumpkins!

The "tone" , however, actually fits in with the absurdity of how the situation played out in terms of what we have been left with.

On that day you got two hicks cruising around on golf carts shooting aimlessly around a junk yard.

From my perspective going hunting on golf cars is an oxymoron in and of itself ! Golf, for the rich, quiet and leisurely in stark contrast to the bombastic nature of firing off big ole rifles, with bullets ricocheting off dead metal cars. Yeee Hawww Yaa All - hit the gas.

I wonder if she was out in the yard taking pics and was struck by a stray bullet . This explains the absence of any blood in trailer or garage.

They then had a problem. dead woman. So they do what any country folks would do - you burn it. Problem solved.


That basic scenario fills in all sorts of stuff. We all agree that collecitily this is not gene pool riddled with intelligence.

So we have all these "minds" figuring out how to cover it up. Mix the IQ equation, with 48 beers and some whiskey and our planning skills erode with the passage of time !

So the gang is problem solving around the ole bonfire. Ok Billie Jean Ray Bop you go hide the car. Beer in hand off he goes. He finds the easiest parking spot on the lot and whips her right on in there.

Bob Bobby Bobby comes running up exclaiming that he has to hide the car. After downing another Bud he moves a tree over, rubs his hands together and says "there".

Forgetting to cover up the large lettered RAV4 tire cover is well , just Avery.

Meanwhile back at the bonfire, Jimmy Jo Jo is frantically running up with her cell phone in had screaming I got her phone. Billy Ray tells Papa Jo to just throw it in the barrel we will burn in later.

We have a bunch of family members scarring all about , opps a bone, toss it there.

Its perfect - its Halloween and from I have gathered, in them there parts, bonfires and Halloween have some correlation.

Sort of like two worlds collide, family covering accidental shooting, cops have perfect setup and poof here we are

Low IQ does not imply stupid - impacts judgment ! In them there parts what cha do with stuff ya don't want ? Golly keepers you burn it that's what cha a do.

This is also helps align this magical password guessing nonsense. Panic - the room ate isn't exactly a LE lover, so he has the password (not unlikly in roomate scenario) . We got all these folks running around trying to hide an accidental killing.

The Ex is sly and manipulative I by golla betcha he off erred to help out if some of that civil suit $ would walk right on a over into his back account

His sales pitch if you will would be we need to know if anyone knows she was here - the gang would by that. Makes sense , lets try to see who she called who called her so we can see if LE would even know if she was on our property.

Roomate is "likely" to join in the fray - he has some explaining to do as to why he did nothing about a roommates that vanished days ago, and is now deceased.

In the midst of this large gathering of the Three Musketeers, running frantically all about Branden hears, or sees some of this chaos, throwing in some of the book he stated he used to fill in some of the blanks, and "stuff" starts to fall in place.

This also helps with the EX role, (something fishy here ) . He is brighter than most of the other characters, so it would be congruent that members of the clan would "Follow" his notions, with the passage of time and the emergence of a huge LE presences on-property. He would take lead for the gang, and he is a fast talker so the the rest of the gang would be inclined to "listen" to him. Explains his role later in the situation.

.


The tag call in and the lab lady notes about putting him there clearly indicate LE MO. This angle also eliminates the "road block" of LE actually committing a murder. It is more like in this scenario , LE being "given" an opportunity to to halt the civil suit.


Pulling the battery cable only makes some sense in the context of this gangs conclusion that "we gotta make the car dead" - plausible with abundance of "Thinking" power on the scene.

Sounds silly I know. But if you pull back , and lin up our cast of characters, all living next to each other, with serried histories, throw in a deceased person, the need to hide it, the excitability of the group some Bud Light, the future possibility of more money than any of them has inexperienced, the history of backstabbing - it actually isnt as crazy as it might sound.

If you roll wight the notion that these folks believed that the "no car no body" would "end" the problem it makes sense.

Now, LE has been handed a gem in terms of their need to stop the civil suit - and BAM we got what we got..............

 

[Sustained]

Pretty good theory here on Avery being guilty ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ternate_theorytimeline_assuming_steven_avery/

This theory also might explain how the propane truck driver saw Teresa's RAV4 if Avery was driving and TH was possibly unconscious or dead in the back.

 

[MysticJynx]

Pretty good theory here on Avery being guilty ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ternate_theorytimeline_assuming_steven_avery/

This theory also might explain how the propane truck driver saw Teresa's RAV4 if Avery was driving and TH was possibly unconscious or dead in the back.

The only problem is this still suggests the police tampered with evidence. They had to have removed her plates then crumple them and leave that key in the house. And had he knocked her in the head as I do believe happened to her explain the bullet in his garage. Still means Police planted and tampered with evidence.
Would have been better had MCSD backed off the case and allowed the Lead Investigators to put men on the searches that did not create the forever presence of Conflict of Interest.