Why didn't Cindy file for custody of Caylee? Could Cindy have saved her?

[DotsEyes]

It was 31 days too late to save Caylee.

 

[mikeysmommom]

My bold....

Grandparents getting custody is not a slam-dunk, & even harder than in a divorce.

What if KC had (legally) signed over her parental rights to someone wanting to adopt ???... Cindy would have no say-so about this.

Maybe this was KC's plan......just tell all Caylee's w/nanny, thinking no-one would call LE......then later finally admitting she adopted her out....sure better than ever having to admit she was dead.

Very true, even with local police seeing signs of abuse still a tooth and nail battle.And when you do not win the mother withholds the child from you out of spite.Most States GPs have very few rights even to visitation.

 

[Jolynna]

Interesting, I'm thinking about various theories to this regard...I know there's a couple floating around that elude to Casey "was" Zenaida, and was infact creating a paper trail by various means to prove this imaginary Zenaida existed....who probably crossed over from Mexico without papers IMO. If Casey was creating a Zenaida, then she certainly could have planned to take it the next step (and sign custody over) because she had no need for a "real" nanny for Caylee any longer.

I think Zanny was a spur of the moment thing to tell Lee when he and Cindy wouldn't wait ONE MORE DAY and LE was on the way over.

Casey hadn't even come up with WHERE she last SAW her daughter with Zanny, let alone a more elaborate plot. If Casey hadn't been so busy playing house and partying, she might have come up with a losing Caylee in the park story or a bushy-haired stranger snatching her on a drug deal...something without names that could be checked out.

But, Casey was both a disorganized thief and murderer. IMO, she left fingerprints or the equivilent all over where Caylee's wrappings and the deposit site.

JMO

 

[Hope for the Best]

Finding her would be my top priorty and then using this episode of child neglect to gain custody would have been my next step. Perhaps that is what CA was thinking.

That's what I would think, too. Casey might have lost custody based on this episode anyways, so it would be easier for Cindy to swoop in and get custody. I also think that filing for full custody would cost money, and I think at this time, all of the Anthony financial resources were being used.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Yep, Cindy had already bought the idea of the (invented) nanny, if KC could kept it going, she could of finally admitted to an adoption 'scenario'.....
Cindy would have no legal standing to find out about a 'legal' adoption.

Been there, done that, grandparents have very few 'legal' rights.....& it's totally different if the parent 'chooses' to sign over custody, to anyone.

Very different ,Been there too. We do it out of love but to the court it falls on deaf ears. Then when something like this happens the GPs are torn to shreds. IMO If Casey killed GA&CA in a slow painful death complete with torture they would have gladly changed places if they could have saved CAYLEE IMO

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Yes she called but Caylee wasnt mentioned immediately . The priority
was a stolen car ( they had already recovered) theft of money which
was causing problems in Cindys birth family and oh yeah by the way
the car smells like death and my granddaughter is missing .
To this day Caylee is the last priority - other people - things are
more urgent - KC and her defense - the banned from the funeral list
other people profiting from Caylee - grave robbers - T-shirt sales
immunity deals.

:woohoo:

 

[Irish_Eyes]

This is certainly a possible scenario. I hadn't thought of that. Casey was good at lying but not so good with logical planning. Maybe that's why she needed "one more day"....

I agree with you about grandparents and custody. For some reason many posters seem to think it's a simple thing. Grandparents have no special "rights" to take grandchildren away from the parent, even if they think they can do better. .

Respectfully snipped...

Every situation is different, ...however in THIS case, Caylee was IN JAIL...it is NOT hard for the court to appoint a temporary guardian for a child whose only parent is in JAIL, (and not just overnight or something), because SOMEBODY has to have temporary residency and decision making rights for that child...in many cases, grandparents may try to prove that the parent is unfit, but in THIS case, FCS had already gotten involved and declared Caylee to be endangered, and that Casey's actions were neglectful..., So if Caylee had come home, some determination would have needed to have been made...And what I'm wondering is why Cindy hadn't started that ball rolling...she didn't have to say that KC is guilty of anything, just the fact that her daughter is incarcerated and until she is found innocent and released I want to be the one on record as being Caylee's custodian so that if/when she is found, she is not in this FCS limbo, which would be the worst thing...Posters have said that maybe it was because she was afraid of KC not talking if she did that, and that could be true....I've also wondered if she knows who biodad is and knows he's really alive and was worried he might show up at some point...Of course, if CA/GA knew Caylee was dead, there would be no reason to file...

 

[tx_Dot]

Very true, even with local police seeing signs of abuse still a tooth and nail battle.And when you do not win the mother withholds the child from you out of spite.Most States GPs have very few rights even to visitation.

How true, my advice (after my own pers. experience) has been to tell grandparents to attempt to have their 'questionable adult child' sign over temporary custody until the 'adult child' is able to get out on the own & provide a secure home for the grand child.

 

[PaddieAB]

Some of us think logically others will find fault no matter what. I just pray that If any of the people who think they have all the right answers will be able to remember them if they ever find themselves in CA shoes.IMO Casey finally broke Cindy mentally, and alot of people are exploiting her nervous breakdown for profit.

I know what you mean about other people thinking they have the right answers.

For certain, there are other grandparents out there this very moment who's adult children are withholding their grandchildren from them, for various reasons. I highly doubt even one of them believe their grandchildren are dead. And neither did Cindy when this all began That's an unreasonable and heartless expectation to place on anyone IMO.

Cindy did the right thing because she cared about Caylee. She tracked Casey down, called 911 and cooperated with police. Cindy's alternative was to listen to Casey's concocted lies for the rest of their lives, and never see Caylee again.

And where has Cindy's "doing the right thing" gotten her? Information they willing gave has been completely misconstrued, each and every word they say and action they do has been torn apart and used against them, piled with a whole heap of players inserting themselves in the spotlight for profit, while some of the media (and experts) are having a field day with ratings that soar sky high each time the word Caylee is mentioned.

Honestly, it's sad because we now know nothing is going to bring Caylee back, and all things considered, one would have to wonder if Cindy would have been better off just not caring so much. Was it worth it.

I do have faith that the truth will come out and then people will see the family in a different light. I seems to me there's almost a deliberate attempt over the past couple months to shape the media against them, and that tells me the defense is running frightened of the truth. So I do think at the end of the day, that Cindy will realize she did the right thing. Because they want and need to know the truth, and that time will come. IMO.

 

[TxLady2]

Yes she called but Caylee wasnt mentioned immediately . The priority
was a stolen car ( they had already recovered) theft of money which
was causing problems in Cindys birth family and oh yeah by the way
the car smells like death and my granddaughter is missing .
To this day Caylee is the last priority - other people - things are
more urgent - KC and her defense - the banned from the funeral list
other people profiting from Caylee - grave robbers - T-shirt sales
immunity deals.

The first two calls to 911, Cindy did not know that Caylee was actually missing. She assumed she was with the nanny. And I think in the first two calls, she was actually in her own car with Casey driving around. It was between the 2nd and last calls, when she got home and Lee was talking to Casey, that Cindy got the whiff of the car and realized something was horribly wrong, and that Caylee had been missing a month.
I disagree that she knew from the first day that Caylee was dead. She might have dreaded it, feared it, worried about it.... but could not accept it until they came to her with the results from the autopsy. Something this horrific and terrible, people don't take in, or just accept right away, without positive proof.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

How can you file for custody on a missing child .That makes no sense at all to me.I would think the courts would not let you waste time filling for a missing child, unless of course you found that child.I have never ever heard or read of anyone who has done something like that.Even if she could and did file,Caylee was already dead. So whats the point?

Actually, it happens quite often in parental abduction cases for example, if a residential parent just suddenly up and leaves with the child and cannot be located, the non-residential parent can request custody of the missing child...then if the child is found, in another state for example, the other state will have to enforce the custody ruling of the home state...

 

[wanetta]

Some of us think logically others will find fault no matter what. I just pray that If any of the people who think they have all the right answers will be able to remember them if they ever find themselves in CA shoes.IMO Casey finally broke Cindy mentally, and alot of people are exploiting her nervous breakdown for profit.

mikeysmommom - good post!! I guess what I mean is that when dealing with child protective/law enforcement/authoritative agencies, it doesn't matter how much drama is involved, how much tears, fear, urgency -- they act on their own set of rules/regulations - and that alone can drive one crazy. We don't know whether Cindy was advised to "rush right now and get custody" or whether it was a simple "yes, you have the right to seek custody" or how the advice was given - but it would still have been a long road. I doubt, also, as others posted, whether any agency would do squat while the child was missing - and I would hope, had the child been found alive that CA & GA would have been given the child and proceedings could have been started.

My nephew lives in Mo. - his ex plus 3 boys in NC - 2 years ago, the boys (age 6, 8, 10 at that time) admitted that step dad, while driving down highways makes them crawl out back truck window (slides open in middle) to "fetch" him his beer. There were witnesses to this (their cousins, aunt, uncle on mom's side). I called child protective in hendersonville, nc - told my story - did this in my name to keep their dad out of the blame, even tho it is supposedly confidential. CPS talked to all witnesses. Step dad has record of assault, impersonating law enforcement, tresspassing, many dui's (I may be forgetting some, also). Because uncle/step dad got in fight on day of this coming to light, step dad was punched, fell, hurt his back -- if an injury occurs, this gives cps the rights to go to childrens school and question children away from "parents". Well, OOPS, they didn't do it that way. QUestioned boys in front of both sorry adults at home one night. Two boys clammed up - middle one told the truth. Mom takes boys into stores, dresses them in new clothes, walks out - she has shoplifting charges. CPS did nothing -- they believe in "rehabilitation" while children are with parents. Their goal is to keep families together - ain't that sweet! I asked cps, if by chance they did come to a decision to remove the children (my fingers crossed for that to happen) - wouldn't my nephew, their dad be notified and given the boys -- NOT NECESSARILY - it would be up to Mom to tell them where/who to put these children with. It's not as easy a deal to accomplish as you would think. Hendersonville, NC is a pretty upscale, educated town - you would think very current on rules/regulations within all agencies.

About 3 yrs ago a couple moved here in my little rural hick country town. They previously lived in Arkansas -- their meth/dope head daughter/son-in-law (lived in Louisiana) were partying and doping and neglecting 2 beautiful daughters, ages back then were little over 1 yr plus 4 year old. Leaving girls everywhere with God knows what. CPS would do nothing -- rehabilitate these parents. As it turned out, step-granddaddy ended up molesting the 4 year old. Grandma tried to get girls again, but unfortunately, Louisiana cps agrees with NC cps -- rehabilitate, keep children with parents. Grandparents STOLE/TOOK the girls to their home in Arkansas -- OOPS, Arkansas believes same deal. Fortunately for them, they had relatives in my little small hick town. Connections were made - they moved here and were given emergency custody and now have total custody. Grandparents stayed in the legal battle and step-granddaddy is doing time in LA prison. These grandparents didn't own their home, and were more able to relocate than a lot would have been.

We now have these 2 beautiful girls in our community, 6 & 9 now and both are damaged. My nephews, also now damaged. What happens in their futures??

Casey, with all we've heard from her friends and parents and brother -- comes out smelling like a rose, as a "parent" compared to what has been reported in this thread -- of course, we don't know what CA told her therapist or whoever she talked to about Casey's behavior -- obviously she'd better have better than just "pole dancing" to get custody of a child - or a whole lot of money could probably work miracles within our system.

Unfotunately, it's not as easy as some think it is.

 

[PaddieAB]

Respectfully snipped...

Every situation is different, ...however in THIS case, Caylee was IN JAIL...it is NOT hard for the court to appoint a temporary guardian for a child whose only parent is in JAIL, (and not just overnight or something), because SOMEBODY has to have temporary residency and decision making rights for that child...in many cases, grandparents may try to prove that the parent is unfit, but in THIS case, FCS had already gotten involved and declared Caylee to be endangered, and that Casey's actions were neglectful..., So if Caylee had come home, some determination would have needed to have been made...And what I'm wondering is why Cindy hadn't started that ball rolling...she didn't have to say that KC is guilty of anything, just the fact that her daughter is incarcerated and until she is found innocent and released I want to be the one on record as being Caylee's custodian so that if/when she is found, she is not in this FCS limbo, which would be the worst thing...Posters have said that maybe it was because she was afraid of KC not talking if she did that, and that could be true....I've also wondered if she knows who biodad is and knows he's really alive and was worried he might show up at some point...Of course, if CA/GA knew Caylee was dead, there would be no reason to file...

Sorry but I just don't get your point. Casey was charged with Child Neglect and she was in jail, Caylee was no where to be found, and if she was found she would have been a ward of the court until it was determined by the courts if Casey was a fit mother (re Child Neglect charges) . After all that was determined then a request for custody order could be placed by the Anthonys, once Caylee was found. But not before.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Paddie, It's possible your answer applies, and the reason Cindy didn't is because she was told that under Florida law she couldn't, I'm just not at all familiar with Florida law...or maybe the use of the word "custody" is confusing as opposed to "temporary custody" or "legal guardianship"....

 

[azwriter]

I know all about how hard it can be to extricate a child from an abusive parent, unfortunately, but my question was more pertaining to AFTER Caylee was missing and AFTER child services had already gotten involved...they had already found that Caylee was an endangered child, and even if she is innocent until proven guilty KC has been in jail for much of this time, so regardless she would be unavailable to care for Caylee...so if Cindy truly believed Caylee was alive, why didn't she pursue being appointed Caylee's legal guardian in case she was found alive?

I think Cindy was gambling on the chance that if she played nice with Casey, perhaps Casey would reveal Caylee's whereabouts. To me that was the usual way Cindy delt with Casey.
Perhaps Cindy believed if she went through with her threat to file for custody, Casey would not tell her mom anything. That plan did not work.
As it turns out, neither approached worked. Casey's mouth was shut and no one was getting any reliable information about where Caylee went and how it all came down. It was a lose, lose situation for Cindy.
jmo

 

[JaneInOz]

I can say that I have been somewhat in Cindy's shoes. Thank God I filed for custody before it was to late. My granddaughters mother has "antisocial behavior" disorder, is a sociopath and bipolar. My son is the father and he could not take the responsibility of the child nor did the birth-mother want him to, she tried to take his rights away as well. Long story short. At the age of 6 and half weeks old our baby girl-granddaughter was abandoned by the Birth Mother. She wanted to party and play around with drugs, alcohol and needed to be with several men at all times and had no time for the child, but claimed she was the mother, but didn't want the responsibility. I went to the court house late one Friday afternoon and filed a petition for custody. This poor excuse of a mother left my granddaughter in the car in the winter when she was only 9 days old so she could visit with friends, she then would just leave the child with whom ever and kept my son from the child. She moved 6 times in the first 6 weeks of the child's life. I did not wait. To add to the sickness of this poor excuse of a mother, the judge ordered supervised visitation, when the baby was 4 months old she put a pill on the tray of the baby's exersaucer, thank God I seen it and she just said oops I don't know where that came from. Out the door she went and back to court I went to take away her parental right. My granddaughter will be 3 on Friday and her poor excuse of a mother has not seen her for almost 7 months. So, yes it's a hard long, costly court battle, but it's worth it if it will save my granddaughters life.. I did not wait...That is what I don't understand about Cindy A. She knew her daughter better than anyone...why? Why did she wait? Why didn't she step in and take over the situation? That is the Guilt that Cindy will live with for the rest of her life, George tried to step in and make Casey take the right path in life, other family members warned Cindy and she shut them out. Now look, the victim out of this is Caylee and nobody else. I feel nothing for anyone else but Caylee...

Please take a min and stop by and sign my petitions to help our innocent children.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/alexus-law.html

Oh, I didn't mention that I did report this to the CPS -DCS AND THEY DID NOTHING BUT SEND HER TO PARENTING CLASS!

Thankyou for being a wonderful Mother to your son and Grandmother to your Grandchild.
And not allowing this child to end up in the foster system and adopted out and her entire life removed forever, Thank you for raising her and keeping her life intact.
One day her mother will wake up (unless she dies from this behaviour) and will thank you.

You have done a wonderful thing keeping this child in your family with one of her biological parents.
I take it your son is happy being a dad ?

Are you her legal guardian now ? or did you adopt her ? feel free to PM me

:blowkiss:

Whilst I do wish that Cindy had filed for temp custody, from all accounts Casey was not this way since Caylee was born, if you remember even Jesse made that comment that this isn't the casey I knew.

So perhaps it all spiralled out of control, perhaps Casey got in with the wrong crowd, started doing drugs and her life spun out of control very quickly..

And that is why Cindy didn't file because it all happened in a short amount of time (relative)

 

[JaneInOz]

mikeysmommom - good post!! I guess what I mean is that when dealing with child protective/law enforcement/authoritative agencies, it doesn't matter how much drama is involved, how much tears, fear, urgency -- they act on their own set of rules/regulations - and that alone can drive one crazy. We don't know whether Cindy was advised to "rush right now and get custody" or whether it was a simple "yes, you have the right to seek custody" or how the advice was given - but it would still have been a long road. I doubt, also, as others posted, whether any agency would do squat while the child was missing - and I would hope, had the child been found alive that CA & GA would have been given the child and proceedings could have been started.

My nephew lives in Mo. - his ex plus 3 boys in NC - 2 years ago, the boys (age 6, 8, 10 at that time) admitted that step dad, while driving down highways makes them crawl out back truck window (slides open in middle) to "fetch" him his beer. There were witnesses to this (their cousins, aunt, uncle on mom's side). I called child protective in hendersonville, nc - told my story - did this in my name to keep their dad out of the blame, even tho it is supposedly confidential. CPS talked to all witnesses. Step dad has record of assault, impersonating law enforcement, tresspassing, many dui's (I may be forgetting some, also). Because uncle/step dad got in fight on day of this coming to light, step dad was punched, fell, hurt his back -- if an injury occurs, this gives cps the rights to go to childrens school and question children away from "parents". Well, OOPS, they didn't do it that way. QUestioned boys in front of both sorry adults at home one night. Two boys clammed up - middle one told the truth. Mom takes boys into stores, dresses them in new clothes, walks out - she has shoplifting charges. CPS did nothing -- they believe in "rehabilitation" while children are with parents. Their goal is to keep families together - ain't that sweet! I asked cps, if by chance they did come to a decision to remove the children (my fingers crossed for that to happen) - wouldn't my nephew, their dad be notified and given the boys -- NOT NECESSARILY - it would be up to Mom to tell them where/who to put these children with. It's not as easy a deal to accomplish as you would think. Hendersonville, NC is a pretty upscale, educated town - you would think very current on rules/regulations within all agencies.

About 3 yrs ago a couple moved here in my little rural hick country town. They previously lived in Arkansas -- their meth/dope head daughter/son-in-law (lived in Louisiana) were partying and doping and neglecting 2 beautiful daughters, ages back then were little over 1 yr plus 4 year old. Leaving girls everywhere with God knows what. CPS would do nothing -- rehabilitate these parents. As it turned out, step-granddaddy ended up molesting the 4 year old. Grandma tried to get girls again, but unfortunately, Louisiana cps agrees with NC cps -- rehabilitate, keep children with parents. Grandparents STOLE/TOOK the girls to their home in Arkansas -- OOPS, Arkansas believes same deal. Fortunately for them, they had relatives in my little small hick town. Connections were made - they moved here and were given emergency custody and now have total custody. Grandparents stayed in the legal battle and step-granddaddy is doing time in LA prison. These grandparents didn't own their home, and were more able to relocate than a lot would have been.

We now have these 2 beautiful girls in our community, 6 & 9 now and both are damaged. My nephews, also now damaged. What happens in their futures??

Casey, with all we've heard from her friends and parents and brother -- comes out smelling like a rose, as a "parent" compared to what has been reported in this thread -- of course, we don't know what CA told her therapist or whoever she talked to about Casey's behavior -- obviously she'd better have better than just "pole dancing" to get custody of a child - or a whole lot of money could probably work miracles within our system.

Unfotunately, it's not as easy as some think it is.

That is the absolute truth...

The system in USA and in particular UK is just a complete and utter raving mess.
Children who should be removed from their parent like BABY P, like AIDEN like so so so many other baby's ARE NOT BEING , they are visited by social welfare and for whatever reason the whole "best with bio parent" stuff is written up..

But then you have the cr@p that is going down in like what has happened to a case in Missouri where a normal mother who has THREE children has her youngest daughter removed from her , there is NO evidence of abuse , there is no evidence of any harm at all to the child , but the EX makes a list of complaints and the child is removed and ADOPTED OUT ! but the other two children are left with this *mother that must be abusing her youngest because they removed her from her mothers care FOREVER*

There are so many stories I could tell of children who are removed incorrectly, but yet the ones (like the above stories) are being left to be abused or worse with their bio parents

The system absolutely positively sucks

And yes whoever said they have their own rules its true and I will add that they make it up as they go
If you are a social worker please do not attack me for my views, it doesn't mean this is about you, there are some great SW'ers but its the system in general

Look at what happened to Adam Herman.

So no its not that Easy and I doubt that child services would have taken Caylee from Casey if Cindy had filed.

 

[Who_What_When]

In the 911 call, we hear Cindy threaten KC that she will file for custody of Caylee...we know she talked to a therapist who instructed her to do this...My question is, why didn't she??? I mean, after all this happened, after July 15, where we now know Caylee is missing... Especially once FCS got involved and KC was in jail...if she truly did believe Caylee was alive, why didn't she file for custody??

With everything going on I think her mind was on finding Caylee. I seriously doubt she even thought of filing for custody during that time. I don't think it would have even crossed my mind if I (god forbid) was in that situtation. I'm sure in hindsight she wishes she did before this all happened.

 

[azwriter]

I think in the days following Fathers Day, CA thought KC was punishing her (CA) for whatever happened at the house that night between KC and CA....I can see her thinking that. After that, I have no clue what the A's were thinking. They knew KC is a liar and manipulator. CA was evidently gathering evidence from her bank about KC stealing her blind. Why didn't they contact KC's friends?? JG? Just to check if KC and Caylee were ok and where were they staying??

I've never understood why the A's do what they do and say what they say...and, I never will.

Amster, that is a very good question, why wasn't Cindy checking up on the welfare of Casey and Caylee through Casey's friends and aquaintances during that 31 day void?
Maybe Cindy was checking.
Or, perhaps she was just plain stubborn and decided to do tough love and wash her hands of the entire problem. It is so difficult to understand any and all actions or non actions of the Anthony's. I for one believe at the beginning of the 31 days, Casey had been in contact with her brother, Lee. Didn't she tell him about the "choking" incident (true or not) with her mother the night of Father's Day? Whatever went down, Casey was in charge of everything. She was in control of reporting her daughter missing to officials and did not do that. Or tell her parents either.
So many questions and it's hard to put the story together becasuse it's being told by a family of liers. Who do we believe?

 

[Who_What_When]

Some of us think logically others will find fault no matter what. I just pray that If any of the people who think they have all the right answers will be able to remember them if they ever find themselves in CA shoes.IMO Casey finally broke Cindy mentally, and alot of people are exploiting her nervous breakdown for profit.

This is one of the best post I've read!!! Kudos! :clap: