Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

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Trials can't be moved out of state. It's pretty rare for trials to even be moved to another county within the same state.

I can't ever remember hearing of a trial being moved out of state and you're right in that it is a really special case to move one even to another county, but the Jessica Chambers murder case in MS was moved to another county twice; the first ended in a mistrial prompting a new trial which was also moved to yet another area clear to the other end of the state. Both trials have ended in mistrials.

ETA: the prosecutors and attorneys all remained the same.

ETA: to provide clarity
 
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I thought I read where he wasn't close enough so he wasn't worried about blow back. But he also said he almost slipped in the blood so there would have to be blood on his shoes. Not sure what to believe about why he kept his clothes. I believe he took her clothes so she would be less likely to run. Or he planned to kill her eventually. JMO

I think you're right. I think he planned to kill her at a certain point. He wasn't done with the clothes yet.
 

Snipped by me

The off grid and prepper movements are big things and not necessarily indications of a person's mental health or psychopathic tendencies. MANY of us, including several on this forum, live without some of these things. We don't have a telephone at all, much less a smart phone. (We do have a prepaid phone that we take with us when we're going to be gone for several weeks at a time. We only put money on it once or twice a year.) No cable. Our house is heated by wood stoves and solar panels. I haven't had a water bill in years because we have a private well and a cistern in which we collect rainwater. We only have internet because of my job. My husband doesn't do social media and he teaches basic survival and prepping classes. People in our community actually (good-naturedly) tease us for being ON the grid so much.

This is part of what I was saying about puzzle pieces. It is not weird that he didn't have a smart phone, not weird that he didn't have TV or a FB page. Taken piece-by-piece, many of the things that can be said about him are not indications of problems. (Some are, but some aren't.) It's only when you put them all together and form a bigger picture that something else starts to manifest.
 
I am a little concerned about the letter and I hope it was given to the DA and not mailed to Jayme's family so they can decide if they want to even see the envelope or not. Also, I do understand JP's dad's need to write the letter (I did the same thing after my cousin killed a beautiful sweet girl), but I will say I absolutely regret writing the letter today and I hope the DA never gave it to the family because I realized it I wrote it for me and nothing I had to say was going to make their life any better.
Your last sentence is important.
 
(Please excuse if this is redundant or a ridiculous question)
I’ve heard the saying “If you ask if you are crazy, then you are not crazy” and “Memory loss is not forgetting where you put your car keys, but forgetting you have a car.”

Along those lines, JP confessed to his horrific crimes as if he was confessing to something minor, like jaywalking or removing tags from a mattress. IMO

My question is: Do psychopaths KNOW they are psychopaths?

IMO, from my clinical studies and profession, most have what I'd call " fantastical belief systems" about their actions, and it's likely a superficial answer, because psychopaths lack introspection and remorse..

The usual comments we read post- crime relate to things such as the person believes they are " truly special", " Put on earth for a mission", " Ridding the world of evil ( those who focus on prostitute killings). Or that they are consumed by an evil force, were born evil, or can rid themselves of their evil nature through killing others.

Manson alternately blamed and praised Satan, then decided he WAS Satan.

Some are psychosexual deviants to the point that part of their sexual fulfillment involves the defilement of the human body to an extreme degree ( Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy, and thousands less well known). The sexual deviance which involves mutilation of the victim is likely the most publicized " reason" given for a particular ASPD with violence's infamy..
There are many aspects to the spectrum of criminality which are never released to the public because of the gruesomeness and out of respect for the living families of victims. Textbooks contain the details but the info can't be said on the evening news or on a website.

Some never sexually touched their victims, but killed many people and by the use of a drug or drugs and some are in textbooks and historical lore about older era serial killers.. There are women who give birth to, then killed many babies. Underlying factors were usually extreme poverty, and lack of access to birth control ( husband forbade it, there wasn't anything reliable during that time, they lacked awareness of how to stop the reproductive process due to lack of sex education). Prior to the mid- 20th century, it is believed that there was a whole subset of serial killers who were mothers who killed their newborns at birth or shortly afterwards and claimed the child was born dead, or was ill, or choked- a thousand different excuses for thousands of tiny lives lost. SOME of those skeletal remains are still being found today.. maybe stacked up, maybe in a family's ancestral home attic..

I just did a multiple keyword and site search and the common estimate by both LE and those involved in studying serial killers believe there are several thousand unknown serial killers in the US at large presently. I have heard of Thomas Hargrove's work, but I am not familiar with this publication source: How Many Uncaptured Serial Killers Are Out There?

" There is no foolproof estimate for how many such criminals are living in communities, uncaptured, but Thomas Hargrove, the founder of the Murder Accountability Project, argued that there are as many as 2,000 serial killers at large — and that financial woes affecting city services could be making the problem worse."
 
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I think that JP was really into the initial crime of killing her parents and abducting her. While his target was Jayme, I think it was the planning and carrying out of THAT crime that excited him. And, IMO, that's why it doesn't appear that he had solid plans thereafter. Look at everything he did to prepare for the abduction/murder in comparison to what he did after he actually had Jayme (ie stuffing her under his bed). He may have had a vague idea of what it would be like to have an abducted child in his house, but it feels like he didn't have an actual long-term plan for her imprisonment. Like someone who robs a bank and puts tons of thought into the actual robbery but then, once they have the money, doesn't know what to do when they get outside.
That is so true, to me as well, and SO worked in her favor. Thank God he didn't chain her in some horrific place. He really thought the under the bed plan would be a cool thing for ... ever ? And he had no job? Then again he could easily have tired of her and I can't even think what may have happened if he decided to move on to another similar plan. Last year I read a novel by Chevy Stevens called "Still Missing." Spoiler alert here. A female realtor went missing after she hosted an open house. She was abducted and taken to a very remote cabin that had been modified by her abductor to prevent her from ever escaping. Spoiler is her MOTHER hired the man to abduct her, with the intent he'd return her after a short period of time, and the mother would become wealthy with book offers and such. Little did Mom know that she hired the wrong man- some psychopath who pounced on the opportunity to groom a woman into being the female he could never obtain as a partner using normal channels, like, um, dating and marriage. A very, very chilling book. She did escape after a year or more passed, after he became comfortable letting her outside and she took an axe to his head.
 
Hmm. Maybe they were busy checking databases for maroon Ford Taureses. Checking for months and doing research to see if anyone ended up on their radar. And in the meantime they threw out fake cars to make the perp think he was safe?

FBI was involved. Is this is a possibility?

I used to support the LE and tons of FBI and others who were involved in the Jacob Wetterling case.

First came the podcast In the Dark that tears your heart in terms of what LE totally ignored on purpose. Then came the release of the whole case.

My God! It makes you weep. One investigator wanted to arrest the perp but another did not because of some ego thing.

Luckily the perp did not go on to kill any other children.

But they ignored things such as matching fibers and the car and tire tracks of a kidnapping he had done before.

It is so sickening.
 
I think that JP was really into the initial crime of killing her parents and abducting her. While his target was Jayme, I think it was the planning and carrying out of THAT crime that excited him. And, IMO, that's why it doesn't appear that he had solid plans thereafter. Look at everything he did to prepare for the abduction/murder in comparison to what he did after he actually had Jayme (ie stuffing her under his bed). He may have had a vague idea of what it would be like to have an abducted child in his house, but it feels like he didn't have an actual long-term plan for her imprisonment. Like someone who robs a bank and puts tons of thought into the actual robbery but then, once they have the money, doesn't know what to do when they get outside.

Excellent post! I agree and I think it’s highly likely that he would have become annoyed by the responsibility of keeping a 13yr old hostage. So thankful that she had the courage to escape, as I fear it was only a matter of time before he decided that he no longer wanted that burden and ended her life! Moo
 
Wasn't he dismissed because his behavior was incompatible with being a Marine? I'm thinking (guessing) he was let go because of attitude, insubordination, laziness. Maybe lack of physical fitness in general.

Total speculation. imo
Yeah. That can mean a lot of things. Knowing what we now know about him, it definitely makes a lot of sense.

This guy couldn’t last more than a day or two in a normal job. Being surrounded with people and being constantly told what to do, not a chance.

His recruiter was an idiot.
 
Tons of lakes. He grew up near lake superior. A lot of inner city kids join the Marines and have no idea how to swim. It's not an excuse. You have to learn. You swim or you sink. I'd imagine he was kicked out for character - or lack of. I can't see this guy agreeing to work together with other recruits to accomplish anything or actually listening to the directions of a drill instructor. I can also see him blankly admitting that he's looking forward to combat and killing people, not knowing it's wrong to think that way.

Agree, your last sentence sounds plausible. I would think 30 recruits and majority would have preferred JP not have guns...
him with loaded weapon would make anyone nervous... can’t believe his father didn’t keep gun from him...or take it back..
 
I’m very glad that not only does Jayme have extended family who love her fiercely and whom she is very close to, but also that she has so many members of extended family to deal with all the different aspects of her recovery. Of course, her aunt by her side and caring for her directly, along with her uncle, then other aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents to deal with organizing incoming donations, screening incoming mail, attending to media questions and news and interviews, attending court proceedings and dealing with legal issues, dealing with the note from PP, thanking the wonderful people who assisted Jayme in her escape, etc etc. This would all be a lot for her aunt to deal with on top of caring for her day to day.

I want to add that I believe the note from PP was well intentioned but misguided. I feel sorry for him as he seems to be devastated and have the best of intentions for her family, but I do wish someone had explained to him kindly that such a note serves him more than her family. I think Jayme’s grandfathers response to it was very graceful as he may have understood its good intentions. But of course Jayme and her aunt, very understandably, want nothing to do with the Patterson family right now and I hope from now on, the extended Patterson family choose to respect that.
 
I think that JP was really into the initial crime of killing her parents and abducting her. While his target was Jayme, I think it was the planning and carrying out of THAT crime that excited him. And, IMO, that's why it doesn't appear that he had solid plans thereafter. Look at everything he did to prepare for the abduction/murder in comparison to what he did after he actually had Jayme (ie stuffing her under his bed). He may have had a vague idea of what it would be like to have an abducted child in his house, but it feels like he didn't have an actual long-term plan for her imprisonment. Like someone who robs a bank and puts tons of thought into the actual robbery but then, once they have the money, doesn't know what to do when they get outside.
I agree that he was more concerned about the act of the kidnapping than he was about keeping Jayme. That was well planned out, almost meticulous. He even timed it. Everything after he "got away with it" was just....sloppy. He didn't even have an actual space built to keep her.
Honestly, with his work history (and I would be good money he washed out of boot camp his 2nd week in) and his description as a smart loner, it almost seems like this whole thing was almost a challenge of sorts to him. A kind of I Bet I Can Do This Because I Am So Much Smarter Than Everyone Else game that he played. He had no idea what to do after he got his target....but he disposed of everything his target brought with her and kept the clothes he kidnapped her in as trophies.
The hunt was what he liked. The challenge of it. Jayme would not have been his last victim.
 
This kind of reminds me of Sylvia Seegrist who shot up the Springfield Mall in PA. This was in 1985. I think if I remember correctly her parents begged to get her help once she was an adult. She had problems as a kid and had been molested. She had schizophrenia and made comments about shooting people. She was into guns. A Kmart employee refused to sell her a gun because she scared them. I think she went to mental hospitals and was released as not a danger to herself or others. I think that case changed some rules in PA. Threats seem to be taken more seriously since 9/11 anyway.

I had my son's father committed, it was technically a forced evaluation that didn't go well. I saw him spiralling and asked, begged and demanded he get help. I thought he was going to ruin everything he had at the time. That wasn't the reason we broke up lol. In his case it was a waste of time but some people with bipolar or depression realize after the fact that you were helping them. Being an odd duck isn't a crime. If you can get someone to agree to see a doctor willingly and keep up with it that is sometimes the best option. If a person seems like they are dangerous and can't admit they have issues that's when it gets complicated and scary. You hope they commit a petty crime pefore they kidnap a girl.
I know what you're saying about the escalation of criminal behavior but it is argued among the experts dealing with Behavioral analysis that psychopaths are born, not made.
Most of us who have had to debate this issue of nurture vs. nature definitely see disorganization of family structure in childhood, see a child who either kills animals, sets fires, or soils their clothing years after they should have stopped in the absence of a physical problem.

I'm definitely thinking the handling of either live or freshly dead wild animals and at least one dog fits the first known abnormal behavior we associate with the development of psychopathy. We really do not know if the animals were " found dead" or tortured and killed..
He was only 21 years old when he was apprehended for crimes against the Closs family.
IF his first crimes were the double murders of the Closs parents, and the abduction of Jayme, and he'd gotten away, he'd have likely been in the news for another crime, or caught after commission of serial crimes against others for years.

I see him much like a bat in a dark cave right now. ( subject to change).
He's in his element in solitary, possibly darkened areas. He mostly hangs around the house and has food delivered. May have to make money on his own at some point if the Bank Of Dad dried up, but minimal income and minimal contact with a job involving close proximity to others. Maybe he'd try the work from home easy things.

When he isn't blending into the background like a bat does, and when the urges to act come, he strikes suddenly like the bat in the cave will do at night, catching the prey he can get.

We may think " Bats are fabulous"- Yes, they are generally beneficial to the ecosystem, but bats are one of the least controllable host animal vectors for Ebola transmission in The Congo. It's rare but it's deadly.
People all over the world die from rabies from an undetected bat bite. It's rare, but it's deadly.

This guy is a one- off, for sure, but he's deadly.
I think we all agree on his absolute oddness and the deadliness of his attack.
I believe his behavior, when known in more details, will be studied in depth due to what I see as unusual elements at this time ( subject to change) either during his lifetime or more likely, posthumously.

JMO as both a survivor of abduction and extreme violence, and a graduate in behavioral psychology.
 
I thought I read where he wasn't close enough so he wasn't worried about blow back. But he also said he almost slipped in the blood so there would have to be blood on his shoes. Not sure what to believe about why he kept his clothes. I believe he took her clothes so she would be less likely to run. Or he planned to kill her eventually. JMO[/QUOTE
 
The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout helped me understand the term "sociopath."
She lists 13 rules for dealing with sociopaths.
JP's parents might want to consider rule #8.
"The best way to protect yourself from a sociopath is to avoid him, to refuse any kind of contact or communication."
I wish Jayme peace.
 
I agree that he was more concerned about the act of the kidnapping than he was about keeping Jayme. That was well planned out, almost meticulous. He even timed it. Everything after he "got away with it" was just....sloppy. He didn't even have an actual space built to keep her.
Honestly, with his work history (and I would be good money he washed out of boot camp his 2nd week in) and his description as a smart loner, it almost seems like this whole thing was almost a challenge of sorts to him. A kind of I Bet I Can Do This Because I Am So Much Smarter Than Everyone Else game that he played. He had no idea what to do after he got his target....but he disposed of everything his target brought with her and kept the clothes he kidnapped her in as trophies.
The hunt was what he liked. The challenge of it. Jayme would not have been his last victim.

It does sound like he'd already decided to take someone when he saw Jayme and settled on her as his target. So the initial fantasy may have involved going into a home, killing as many as he could, and abducting a young female. After that, his fantasy may have been a little vague. And yeah, I don't think this would have been his last hurrah. I think this would have continued on in some form.
 
But LE believed the killer could be driving one of those two vehicles. It wasn’t a game. The one vehicle they didn’t pursue in their investigation was the Taurus. Didn’t it cross their minds that the killer might be driving it? I would think so. But even though they had a pretty decent description of the car, they did nothing with it.

Right. Because it was important enough to make it into the police report. So they thought it was significant. The only car they passed in a situation in which they arrived mere minutes after the call.

There had to have been a reason not to publicize it. Maybe they were doing a quiet investigation. It would start with if any RSO's or peiple on probation/parole are associated with such a car.
 
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