AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13

[MsBetsy]

A have a couple problems with this theory.

1. If LE could see James’ feet in the doorway while approaching the house, wouldn’t Jayme, or more importantly, the adult driver notice this as well?

2. As an adult, if I’m dropping a 13 year old off, I stick around to make sure she got in ok. If she went in the front door, she sees dad, freaks out and runs; I see and hear her. If I dropped her off at the garage, I’ve got a little ways to get back to the street. If there is commotion, I both hear and see this.

3. Yes, Perp could have heard her coming, been ready and subdued her as soon as she entered the house. If so, why did 911 hear a struggle and someone crying help?

I really think Jayme was there from the beginning.



You have some good points and thoughts. Question, if James was shot through the door, then the door was kicked open, how did his feet get in the doorway? JMO, but if someone is shot through a door, their body is now behind that door. When the Perp kicks it in, the body goes between the door and wall.

That's what I'm confused about. If the killer opened the storm door and then kicked the inner door in and shot, then the body would not end up in the doorway, it would have been further inside. He would have had to have either been using his body to hold the storm door open, or gone inside before aiming and taking a shot.

 

[liltexans]

Here's the link to James and Denise Closs' obituary:

Obituary for James and Denise Closs at Rausch & Steel Funeral Home

 

[BeeGirl]

I think JC was immediately shot at the door, then he fell blocking the door. That's why the gunman resorted to kicking the door open with parts of it likely landing on JC's body.

If the storm door is not damaged, then either JC or the gunman opened it, and JC opened the wood door.

At that hour, if there were noises outside or a knock on the door, wouldn't JC have looked out the window first? Wouldn't he have seen the person, seen the storm door open?

I didn't really think the gunman was known to JC, but who do you open your door to at 12:30AM? A stranger who opens your storm or screen door is rude - they should wait for you to open it even if it's unlocked.

I have to rethink this more about JC opening the door for anyone at that hour being someone he knows, someone who could open the storm door and not seem like a threat... It's the difference in what response JC would make to a stranger on Hwy 8 knocking because of car trouble versus the same excuse from someone he knows.

I tend to believe there was a chain-type lock on the door and JC opened it with chain (because it was midnight) to see who was there and it was kicked open to pop the chain.

ETA: or opened it because he recognized/thought he recognized the person.

 

[MsBetsy]

So the Smrekar home is 300 feet from the Closs home. That's not very far, and they heard a couple of rapid shots. But LE used the word "riddled" when describing the victims, did I read that correctly somewhere? How did they only hear 2 shots?

No, they never used the word riddled. That came from a caption in the DM. They indicated there were multiple bullet casings, which means two or more.

 

[Gardener1850]

It also seems like he was shot right there in the doorway, and the killer would have been approaching the door rather than shooting while holding the storm door open. Maybe that's why police think he answered the door. But then why would the second shot seem louder? And that doesn't really explain the door being kicked in, Unless he shot through the storm door and then kicked the door in. I can't remember if the storm door was damaged.

This is an interesting point. I have been working off the theory that he had to have held the storm door open to shoot James through the door or to kick the door in. We saw what looked like an intact storm door being carried away. We could make out at least one pumpkin window cling on the door. It appear to be intact, but we were not able to inspect the door closely. I have been assuming that shooting through a storm door like that would leave it shattered or at least some visible bullet holes with spiderweb-like crack around them. Is there any possibility of shooting through a storm door without the shots making noticeable cracking? I wonder if the window clings could have held the glass together if the perp aimed for the pumpkin, for example?

 

[MsBetsy]

I tend to believe there was a chain-type lock on the door and JC opened it with chain (because it was midnight) to see who was there and it was kicked open to pop the chain.

ETA: or opened it because he recognized/thought he recognized the person.

Yes, I asked if anyone knew if there was that type of lock but I'm not sure if anyone knows. So if it's not known, I guess it's possible.

 

[PommyMommy]

So the Smrekar home is 300 feet from the Closs home. That's not very far, and they heard a couple of rapid shots. But LE used the word "riddled" when describing the victims, did I read that correctly somewhere? How did they only hear 2 shots?

LE has not used the word "riddled" to my knowledge. The only place I've seen that word used was on a photo caption in a Daily Mail article. SENSATIONALISM

"Crime scene: Closs had gone missing overnight from this home on Highway 8 near Barron, Wisconsin, where deputies found the bullet-riddled bodies of Denise and James Closs"
Two adults found dead in Wisconsin home and a 13-year-old girl is missing | Daily Mail Online

 

[rainynights]

Mary McGuire on Twitter

Volunteers from Maranatha Evangelical Free Church in Rice Lake deliver meals to 200 law enforcement officers working to find #JaymeCloss @WCCO #wcco #barron

 

[ReckoningDay]

What's your instinct on this one, OBE. I'm always interested in your opinion.

I've been waiting for you to show up and tell us your opinion too, Gitana!

 

[BeeGirl]

Yes, I asked if anyone knew if there was that type of lock but I'm not sure if anyone knows. So if it's not known, I guess it's possible.

Yeah, I haven't seen any pics of the inside of the door. I just think to kick in a door you have to have a whole lot of rage or a good reason you can't open it normally.

 

[MsBetsy]

This is an interesting point. I have been working off the theory that he had to have held the storm door open to shoot James through the door or to kick the door in. We saw what looked like an intact storm door being carried away. We could make out at least one pumpkin window cling on the door. It appear to be intact, but we were not able to inspect the door closely. I have been assuming that shooting through a storm door like that would leave it shattered or at least some visible bullet holes with spiderweb-like crack around them. Is there any possibility of shooting through a storm door without the shots making noticeable cracking? I wonder if the window clings could have held the glass together if the perp aimed for the pumpkin, for example?

Thats a good question. I wondered if it was shot through, and that's why the family member said that. I don't know what kind of glass is used in those doors, or what a bullet hole would look like in one. Also they didn't mention it in the dispatcher log. It would seem it would have to be open, either with him holding it open with his body or having stepped inside. Jmo

 

[celticthyme]

Wishing that I had any kind of theory, but because of so many unknown's, I don't. The big question for me is, who comes to the door at 0030? Not teens, unless they are drug fueled. That leaves adults hitting the wrong house, trying to buy drugs, very angry work mates. Because the area is so meth infested, it could be anyone having to do with drugs. But the violence and rage of these murders, somehow makes this personal. The parents seemed to have close control over her, but did Jayme have a boyfriend they did not like or would not permit, who'd finally had enough? The house is far enough off the highway, into the trees, one would have to have known it was there. Mystified.

 

[ReckoningDay]

We can't know 100% where James was standing, by his body position. I've had the misfortune of seeing a gunshot victim, and they can sometimes move more than you think, before they succumb to their wound.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I've come to think that the "bang" and "bang" that the neighbors heard was not associated with what happened at the Closs residence -- either that or the neighbors' time-line is wrong and was actually closer to the time of the 911 call from DC's phone. I just don't think that the perp stuck around long after shooting the father/kicking in the door. I suspect the 911 call was placed almost immediately after that happened and DC was shot before the dispatcher answered the call. And that's why there has been no comment about the dispatcher hearing gun shots during the call -- just "a lot of yelling," which I suspect was the perp and Jayme.

Whoever did this was one pissed-off individual -- not just someone who had an obsession and could no longer hold off from acting on impulse, imo. The perp was triggered, imo -- over what, who knows? Two scenarios seem to make the most sense to me: 1) The perp had been crossed by one or both of the parents in some fashion, most likely financially, and he killed them in a rage, taking Jayme with him for deviant purposes; and 2) The perp met Jayme online and learned over time that the parents would never let him be w/ her, so he killed them and took Jayme. And if I had to guess, I'd opine that Jayme knew the perp.

MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

On day 11 of search for Jayme Closs, Barron residents remain vigilant
No more than two miles from the Closs family house, just off Hwy. 8, a Barron County farmer chopped stalks Thursday with his eyes focused on the cornfield and Jayme.

“You’re always looking. In the back of your mind, maybe something happened and she’s placed here. We’re always looking for her. I’ve got quite a few fields within a short distance of where the scene was,” the farmer said.

The farmer, who asked that we not use his name, said he won’t stop doing his part.

In fact, he and his wife reached out to authorities earlier this week about a “strange” phone call they received from an out-of-area phone number. They were worried it might be connected to the nationwide search.

“They actually asked for Jayme and then kinda acted funny,” the farmer said. “We had the phone number they called from and delivered it to the police department.”

 

[MsBetsy]

We can't know 100% where James was standing, by his body position. I've had the misfortune of seeing a gunshot victim, and they can sometimes move more than you think, before they succumb to their wound.

True but if he had the chance to move, I would think he would have tried to roll over and maybe crawl towards the door, but not feet first. It sounds like he was lying just as he landed. Jmo

 

[Mom24]

I think its more like 300 (250) yards. Also i have not heard the riddled part before if you find where its from LMK.

So 300 yards, still not a great distance.
"riddled" was from a couple of posts here and I searched it back, seems like it came from DailyMail.
another article says bullet casings were found "strewn throughout the home" Reported Sighting of Missing Wisconsin Teen Jayme Closs in Miami Not Credible, Police Say - NTD.TV
and then this one says they found "multiple casings"
Searchers comb Barron area for clues to missing teen
at any rate, it's definitely more than two. So if you hear two shots, why not more? And if you hear shots, why not voices or "commotion"?

 

[CuriousMaine]

No, they never used the word riddled. That came from a caption in the DM. They indicated there were multiple bullet casings, which means two or more.

Technically, it was: "multiple rounds spent".

 

[celticthyme]

Thanks for this. I am mostly just reading these forums but I am also jumping around, reading other things which I only take with a grain of salt b/c who knows what info is really reliable out there. With that being said, I have a question for you other sleuthers. I know a lot of you have been on these boards for a long time and other then following the Stacy Peterson case on here, I really don't know what is normal.

My question is why are we not hearing more from local community, friends, family? There are a lot of missing person cases that would kill to have 1/10 of the media spotlight that this case does and yet, to me, it seems like I cannot find out anything. I am not trying to say anything bad at all about any of the victims families or friends I just think that someone would climb to the tallest mountain and let everybody know everything they can to help the case. Even if it was someone saying, "Hey I saw her 2 days before eating at mcdonalds and she seemed happy" it would be something. all i'm saying is I think its odd. Again, PLEASE don't take it as an attack on anyone.

 

[ReckoningDay]

True but if he had the chance to move, I would think he would have tried to roll over and maybe crawl towards the door, but not feet first. It sounds like he was lying just as he landed. Jmo

You very well may be right...but sometimes a head-wound victim will in their confusion, just take a couple of staggering steps, not necessarily trying to walk forward...just trying to stay on their feet.