AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13

[rainynights]

Paul Blume on Twitter

Today's #JaymeCloss sheriff update is out. Not much here. Just a new tip count. 1740 tips so far to #FindJaymeCloss 1400+ closed. Asks for more tips. And ends his post, "we will bring Jayme home." #FindJayme

 

[tmar]

I'm surprised LE haven't asked if anybody noticed somebody suddenly limping a bit the next day. I'd say it's easy to hurt an ankle kicking open a door.

Yes, if this person is local, folk should be on the alert, as a 'limp' is more than likely.
However, if a stranger, living miles away, people may not be aware.

 

[Jethro4WS]

How does LE process these tips? Let's say Joe Blow from Arizona calls in and says he saw a girl resembling Jayme at Taco Bell in Tucson last Thursday. He says he saw photos of Jayme over the weekend and he thinks the girl he saw earlier resembled Jayme in the photos he saw on TV. There must be hundreds of these tips coming in. What does LE do with something like this...and how much time is it taking LE and the FBI to clear these?

In this case the tip would be assigned to the FBI field office that covers the location of the tipster and where they say she was seen. The field office likely would have agents of their own follow up and likely would engage municipal, county, or state law enforcement there to follow up the tip. Those remote tips do no tie up any of the investigators in Barron at all unless there is anything to the tip that really does tie to the case.

 

[rainynights]

Barron County Sheriff's Department

October 25, 2018 Update

We have received 1740 tips and have closed over 1400 of them and continue to work on this case. Please continue to call in your tips 1-855-744-3879 or jaymetips@co.barron.wi.us and we will bring Jayme home.

Sheriff Fitzgerald

 

[tmar]

First time poster, but I've been watching this thread for a few days now.

The thing I can't make any sense of is the violent nature of the killing of the parents. It just seems really different to have done that if the goal was abducting Jayme.

The flip side of that is if the goal was revenge on the parent(s), taking Jayme still makes very little sense and doesn't seem like other cases I've heard before.

I think this is one of two possible scenarios:
1.) Random sociopath/killer who would indiscriminately kill anyone they felt like and for some reason chose this poor unsuspecting family to kill/abduct.
2.) Someone known to the family or where they worked, who is still in the area and trying to blend in as if nothing happened.

Welcome, musician.
Your first post.
Both scenarios sound feasible.

 

[rainynights]

FBI Milwaukee on Twitter

Barron County Sheriff's Office Update on Missing & Endangered 13 year old Jayme Closs. We have received 1,740 tips and closed over 1,400 of them and continue to work on this case. Please continue to submit tips 1-855-744-3879. $25,000 REWARD for info that leads to #FindJayme

 

[Amonet]

Is there an LE quote stating that she did not run off? And how could they know? They are not saying clearly that she was taken. It is feasible she ran when she saw her parents shot. I really think they have no idea what became of her but the logical assumption is abduction yet they do not say so.

I think if Jayme had run off into the woods that sniffer dogs would have found her trail.

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly.

It is logical he was facing the door when shot so the high velocity bullets would propell his body straight back causing him to fall on his back with his feet closest to the door.

It also seems like he was shot right there in the doorway, and the killer would have been approaching the door rather than shooting while holding the storm door open. Maybe that's why police think he answered the door. But then why would the second shot seem louder? And that doesn't really explain the door being kicked in, Unless he shot through the storm door and then kicked the door in. I can't remember if the storm door was damaged.

 

[photographer4]

Agreed. And by the sounds of it, this crime occurred after midnight. I doubt many 13 year olds are out that time of night, especially on a Sunday.

No what I am saying is she could have gone out after the family party and arrived home anytime before the 911 call. She may very well have walked into a horror scene in progress. Police have said they don’t know how long parents were dead before they arrived. Multiple rounds spent. Maybe Jayme was our with her aunts or stayed longer at the party to be dropped home later on? Maybe she hid a long time before someone even realized they weren’t alone with two deceased adults in the home?

 

[Gardener1850]

I must have missed this but was one of the Aunts at the press conference the caretaker of Jamey? The one reading or the one holding the dog? TIA

We don't know. It has not been stated in MSM. And I don't think we are allowed to sleuth it as that would be sleuthing the family. JMO.

 

[Alethea]

Is there an LE quote stating that she did not run off? And how could they know? They are not saying clearly that she was taken. It is feasible she ran when she saw her parents shot. I really think they have no idea what became of her but the logical assumption is abduction yet they do not say so.

LE won't classify something based on an assumption. Many child abductions are witnessed - someone sees a child pulled into a car, off a bike, out of a bed. When LE has no witnesses and no physical evidence as to what happens, they keep it open to the known facts: she is missing. Jayme was supposed to be in her house under her parents care and she wasn't when they arrived.

Kidnapping is a crime so once LE feels they have evidence that establishes that the elements of the crime of kidnapping have been met, they may feel comfortable calling it a kidnapping. But until then they generally don't make proclamations based on their assumptions or instincts.

 

[tmar]

I think if Jayme had run off into the woods that sniffer dogs would have found her trail.

Also cadaver dogs, may have been used in a search near the home.
Jayme may have been moved.
MOO.

 

[MadCityNative]

FBI Milwaukee on Twitter

These are 3 different images of 2 vehicles of interest determined to have been in the area of the Closs family home at the time of the of the disappearance of 13 yr old Jayme Closs of Barron, WI. The public is asked to call the tip line 1-855-744-3879 #FindJayme

View attachment 152868 View attachment 152869 View attachment 152870 View attachment 152871

On the Beltline in Madison (U.S. Highways 12/14/18/151), the Amber Alert billboard just says "Red Dodge." Guessing it is to just make it simple, but I can't help wondering if they are getting a lot of bad leads.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I don't know that we have established he was face up but the sheriff revealed on Ashley Banfield's show that his feet were visible and the door was ajar as the first LEO on scene approached the house. Multiple spent rounds were also observed and the door had been kicked in. I speculated previously that James may have been face up because the LEO's first impression on the dispatch log was suicide and then after seeing the rounds his second impression was that James had "answered the door" and he noted that the door had been kicked in. James being face up with his feet in the door way is just what makes the most sense to me with what we know so far, but I could be wrong. Some might be recalling my speculation and thought it was established he was face up? Sorry if that is where it came from. I try to be clear about what I'm speculating and what is fact.

Facts we know:
1. James' feet were visible in doorway on approaching the house
2. Door was ajar/open
3. First impression of LEO was suicide
4. Door was kicked in/damaged
5. LEO observed multiple spent rounds/casings at the scene
6. LEO's second impression was that James had "answered the door"
7. No gun found near body
8. Classification was quickly changed to homicide
9. Family members said someone "shot in" the door (they may be mistaken but this was their statement/belief)
10. The wooden door had a small window in it.

My Opinions Only:
1. Perhaps James had a head wound which would look like suicide at first glance.
2. Suicidal persons choosing to shoot at their head usually shoot themselves in the front forehead, side or mouth, not in the back of the head. Ergo, I reasoned he may have been found face up with a visible head wound.
3. If James was shot while facing the door, as if answering it, the force of the gunshot would push his body backwards and he may have landed face up with his feet in the door way.
4. James may have looked out the small window in the wooden door to see who was outside.
5. The perp may have shot James in the head through the window prior to breaking in the door (hence the door both being kicked in and looking "shot in" according to family).

I hope this helps explain why I think he was face up. It's only my opinion. Subject to change.

Thank you for explaining that I was hoping that it was a statement made by LE, only to clarify how JC was positioned. MOO

 

[Jaded_musician]

My other feeling on this case is the LE could have far more evidence on who did this and are monitoring poi and seeing how their actions are affected by press briefings, searches, interviews, etc.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Apologies if this was already discussed-
In their obituary I noticed that it said Denise was a member of the church, but there wasn't any mention of this for James. I've also seen reports that Denise and Jayme were active members, but again no mention of James. Wondering if someone at church --not even necessarily someone who had been there long--saw Denise and jayme and figured it was a single mom and daughter. Learned their address, and thus weren't expecting a man to be there. Not sure if I really lean towards this theory but at his point I'm looking at anything and everything

 

[photographer4]

It also seems like he was shot right there in the doorway, and the killer would have been approaching the door rather than shooting while holding the storm door open. Maybe that's why police think he answered the door. But then why would the second shot seem louder? And that doesn't really explain the door being kicked in, Unless he shot through the storm door and then kicked the door in. I can't remember if the storm door was damaged.

Maybe someone knocked and James went to open and someone from a distance shot? Scope on a gun maybe? The second shot may seem louder cause it’s closer?

 

[MassGuy]

I think if Jayme had run off into the woods that sniffer dogs would have found her trail.

Exactly. Thermal imaging, police searches, public searches, drones, she would have been found if she had escaped that house.

This aside, common sense says that she didn’t have the opportunity to escape. This guy came in with great force, and apparently caught the family off guard.

A little girl would have been no match for a stronger man, armed with a gun. He took her, and probably didn’t have any trouble doing so.

 

[Cardinal47]

I wondered the same thing and also, whose sister was the one reading and whose was the one holding the dog?

We don't know. It has not been stated in MSM. And I don't think we are allowed to sleuth it as that would be sleuthing the family. JMO.

I only wanted to say if one of them was with Jayme that much this must be double the pain. Family means so very much to us but being with somebody in the family several days a week would make this sooo much harder.
Both of those ladies lost their sister and niece. Sad times.
Tomorrow is the funeral service. Sigh.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I don't know that we have established he was face up but the sheriff revealed on Ashley Banfield's show that his feet were visible and the door was ajar as the first LEO on scene approached the house. Multiple spent rounds were also observed and the door had been kicked in. I speculated previously that James may have been face up because the LEO's first impression on the dispatch log was suicide and then after seeing the rounds his second impression was that James had "answered the door" and he noted that the door had been kicked in. James being face up with his feet in the door way is just what makes the most sense to me with what we know so far, but I could be wrong. Some might be recalling my speculation and thought it was established he was face up? Sorry if that is where it came from. I try to be clear about what I'm speculating and what is fact.

Facts we know:
1. James' feet were visible in doorway on approaching the house
2. Door was ajar/open
3. First impression of LEO was suicide
4. Door was kicked in/damaged
5. LEO observed multiple spent rounds/casings at the scene
6. LEO's second impression was that James had "answered the door"
7. No gun found near body
8. Classification was quickly changed to homicide
9. Family members said someone "shot in" the door (they may be mistaken but this was their statement/belief)
10. The wooden door had a small window in it.

My Opinions Only:
1. Perhaps James had a head wound which would look like suicide at first glance.
2. Suicidal persons choosing to shoot at their head usually shoot themselves in the front forehead, side or mouth, not in the back of the head. Ergo, I reasoned he may have been found face up with a visible head wound.
3. If James was shot while facing the door, as if answering it, the force of the gunshot would push his body backwards and he may have landed face up with his feet in the door way.
4. James may have looked out the small window in the wooden door to see who was outside.
5. The perp may have shot James in the head through the window prior to breaking in the door (hence the door both being kicked in and looking "shot in" according to family).

I hope this helps explain why I think he was face up. It's only my opinion. Subject to change.

Thank you for explaining that I was hoping that it was a statement made by LE, only to clarify how JC was positioned. MOO