Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[JLZ]

I had wondered if one or more of the victims had been taken to Dandenong, it being the first major hospital between Gippsland and Melbourne. It doesn't have a great reputation and Monash in Clayton is the place where everyone wants to go in an emergency. I go to Dandy on a monthly basis to have prodedures but only because it is easier for me to get there by public transport.

I wondered about the hospitals and whether the four went to one place and EP to another in the first instance. The rogue nurse as a very outside theory. I mean they all really got sick from the meal, Erin less so because she ate less (although she may have eaten the most for all I know), but the others went to one hospital where a nurse or other worker saw gastric illness, possibly mushroom-related, and gave them amanita in something for fun.

 

[Oona]

I wondered about the hospitals and whether the four went to one place and EP to another in the first instance. The rogue nurse as a very outside theory. I mean they all really got sick from the meal, Erin less so because she ate less (although she may have eaten the most for all I know), but the others went to one hospital where a nurse or other worker saw gastric illness, possibly mushroom-related, and gave them amanita in something for fun.

The four guests were transferred from local hospitals to the Austin. EP was transferred to Monash from a local hospital.
Not sure why they didn’t all end up being treated in the same hospital.

 

[ch_13]

Not sure if this Australian 2014 case has been mentioned earlier. Similarly, a home cooked meal poisoned people with death caps. In this case the purchaser of the mushrooms insisted they were bought as button mushrooms from Woolworths and tried to sue Woolworths.
Woolworths recalled the batch of mushrooms and were investigated by ACT Health and ACT police, but cleared.

An important detail is that in hospital it was very quickly identified as death cap mushroom poisoning.
"The medical records clearly show that, right from the start, hospital staff identified death cap mushrooms as the source of the toxins in her body," Rajvir's solicitor, Sally Gleeson of Turner Freeman says.

Rajvir Kaur sues Woolworths over alleged death cap mushroom purchase

Rajvir Kaur had been looking forward to her mother's traditional potato and mushroom curry. It landed her in hospital.

www.smh.com.au

This is fascinating.

Although it doesn't seem like the authorities believed her.

The supermarket giant is denying responsibility, pointing to an ACT Health and ACT Policing investigation last year that found no evidence of death cap mushrooms at the suburban store in question, or any other store.

I googled, but I can find no further information about the suit beyond this article. I wonder how the case was disposed. Either settled out-of-court or dismissed, I presume.

 

[JLZ]

The four guests were transferred from local hospitals to the Austin. EP was transferred to Monash from a local hospital.
Not sure why they didn’t all end up being treated in the same hospital.

But I'm wondering where they started. Perhaps the guests all went to a hospital in Korumburra and EP to Leongatha according to where they lived.

 

[Ellery84]

Simon Patterson, who is the former partner of Erin Patterson, reflected on the legacy of his parents, saying they were "very much a team working at life together".

"The fact they died in consecutive days reflects the togetherness that they always worked so hard (to achieve)," he said.

"We were one of the few families who also sat together at the tea table for the evening meal.

Son of mushroom poisoning victims reveals mum's final text message from hospital bed

www.9news.com.au

It’s terribly sad. And to think that the “last supper” or sit down meal together, is what killed them.

This whole saga has such religious overtones.

We were one of the few families who also sat together at the tea table for the evening meal.

Jmo

 

[Neet_Mc]

Immune system has nothing to do with a toxin.

I don't know if bacteria formed on mushrooms could contribute. I'm sure we will learn from the experts called in.
The point I was trying to make was that perhaps her immune system was built up to handle the toxin better. MOO

 

[Salah11]

We would need to know two important things:

1) if she ate any part of the allegedly mushroom poisoned beef wellington (or even any of the meal)

2) if she genuinely had become a bit unwell.

Only the people who attended that lunch will know the truth and three of them are dead. Maybe we'll get information from the fourth person but I imagine it's highly possible she ate nothing. She could have fussed around the visitors, fetching things back and forth from the kitchen, barely sat down, or said she's gone off her food due to the stressful conversation, maybe said she'd eat later with the kids etc.

If she ate some of the meal but only a tiny bit *and* she genuinely did need hospital treatment for a reaction, maybe all of this has been a terrible mistake?

Yes the one Surviving victim brings hope on what happened that day. Let’s hope they have a very clear memory when they wake up.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes the one Surviving victim brings hope on what happened that day. Let’s hope they have a very clear memory when they wake up.

To me, it was very telling that EP stated to journos posted outside her house that she's very much hoping for *Don* to pull through when in fact sadly he has already passed away and it is Ian who is fighting for life.

Sometimes people who aren't sophisticated and compulsive liars trip up because their psyche doesn't lie easily. So, she maybe wasn't able to tell the actual lie which would have been 'I am very much hoping for Ian to pull through'.

I was surprised the Behaviour Panel analysts didn't pick up more on this slip of the tongue.

 

[JLZ]

To me, it was very telling that EP stated to journos posted outside her house that she's very much hoping for *Don* to pull through when in fact sadly he has already passed away and it is Ian who is fighting for life.

Sometimes people who aren't sophisticated and compulsive liars trip up because their psyche doesn't lie easily. So, she maybe wasn't able to tell the actual lie which would have been 'I am very much hoping for Ian to pull through'.

I was surprised the Behaviour Panel analysts didn't pick up more on this slip of the tongue.

When she said that, perhaps she hadn't yet been told that Don had died.

 

[jjleroche]

Would it really be that difficult?

Let's say—just hypothetically—that the forensic evidence showed that the four victims ingested death cap mushrooms and that those spores were present in the meal that EP served. In that case, the prosecution could introduce the following points of evidence:

1. EP hid evidence by dumping the dehydrator (assuming it was used in the meal prep).
2. She lied to police on two separate occasions and claimed that she only used store-bought mushrooms. Certainly there'd be testimony from mushroom growers, retailers etc. stating that DC mushrooms would never end up for sale in a market.
3. She herself was unscathed by any sickness even though she partook in the meal. Experts may likely have some idea of how she was able to avoid the toxin.
4. Presumably, Simon or others could testify as to motive. Whether that was because of disputes over child custody, or she intended to harm her ex, or some other reason.
5. Perhaps others might testify that she was an expert mushroom forager, as has been reported in the press.

To me that seems sufficient evidence for a jury to infer her intent, although I'll admit I'm not familiar with the standards in Australian courts.

Respectfully, none of those examples prove intent to murder.

 

[SouthAussie]

We would need to know two important things:

1) if she ate any part of the allegedly mushroom poisoned beef wellington (or even any of the meal)

2) if she genuinely had become a bit unwell.

Only the people who attended that lunch will know the truth and three of them are dead. Maybe we'll get information from the fourth person but I imagine it's highly possible she ate nothing. She could have fussed around the visitors, fetching things back and forth from the kitchen, barely sat down, or said she's gone off her food due to the stressful conversation, maybe said she'd eat later with the kids etc.

If she ate some of the meal but only a tiny bit *and* she genuinely did need hospital treatment for a reaction, maybe all of this has been a terrible mistake?

I wonder if Gail was able to help the authorities at all, prior to falling into a coma. She was able to get a loving message to her family via the family chat group. That message may have been her last words to her family, but she may have expressed other things prior to that.

For instance, did she tell the authorities that the children were there?
Was she able to describe what size portion of the meal that everyone ate? And how it was served?
Was she able to describe what everyone drank, and if the four of them had been together consuming food and/or drink at any other relevant time?

She probably was not very talkative, as it sounds as if the illness caused by that type of poisoning is horrendous. But she may have done her best to tell what she knew, so others wouldn't suffer like she was suffering. (If this was potentially a public health issue.)

.

 

[Ellery84]

Let’s hope they have a very clear memory when they wake up.

Ian may be conscious. He may be able to talk.

Jmo

 

[Ellery84]

With EP under intense media scrutiny, I would have expected some friends or family to come forward and attest to her good character and presumed innocence.

Maybe the legal advice to Erin is for her to ask her friends not to comment, at all.

IMO

 

[Ellery84]

the others went to one hospital where a nurse or other worker saw gastric illness, possibly mushroom-related, and gave them amanita in something for fun.

So @JLZ, is this your Lucy Letby-style mushroom poisoning Crime story fusion theory?

I mean, I’m not hating it….

 

[Soulmagent]

Immune system has nothing to do with a toxin.

Your immune system helps remove them from your body. People have been know to slowly give themself poisons/or toxins and be immune to the effects. Also some people inject them into their face to prevent wrinkles. Wild planet we live on.

 

[Kemug]

If this should come to trial, with EP in the dock, I would think that she might be an interesting defendant. She certainly wouldn't be cool and calm, like Lucy Letby was for the most part, IMO. I hope it doesn't come to this, but it well may. IMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

June 2017:

Death cap mushrooms at various stages

Over just two weeks in December, the California Poison Control System logged 14 cases of death-cap mushroom poisonings in the northern half of the state, according to a report this month. Previously, it’s gotten only a few a year. The death cap (Amanita phalloides), which is native to Europe, is one of the most poisonous mushrooms in the world. Three of the victims required liver transplants. One of them, an 18-month-year-old girl, suffered permanent brain damage.

It all began in January 2007, when a family of six showed up at Dominican Hospital vomiting and with diarrhea. They had recently eaten tacos made with mushrooms foraged in a state park. (Death caps can resemble non-toxic mushrooms, and perversely, they are said to be delicious.) Mitchell was one of the doctors on call that day. “Amatoxin poisoning is a sort of thing if you’re treating a case, it’s probably your first and last case you’re ever going to see in the course of a career,” he says. Mitchell had never treated a case before, and now he had six on his hands.

So Mitchell turned to Google. He quickly found that an intravenous drug called silibinin, an extract from the milk thistle plant, is used in Europe to treat amatoxin poisoning. Silibinin has not been approved in the U.S., so Mitchell had to get emergency one-time permission to use the drug from the Food and Drug Administration. The drug had to be shipped from Germany. About three days after the family got poisoned, they got the silibinin. Five of the patients eventually recovered. The 83-year-old grandmother died of kidney failure, though her liver was starting to recover after the silibinin treatment.

The Aftermath of a Deadly Mushroom Bloom in California

A surge of death-cap poisonings might provide the data to save future victims.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Ellery84]

If this should come to trial, with EP in the dock, I would think that she might be an interesting defendant. She certainly wouldn't be cool and calm, like Lucy Letby was for the most part, IMO. I hope it doesn't come to this, but it well may. IMO

IMO

She’ll chose not to give evidence…. If it comes to that.

 

[Elley Mae]

Fresh twist in mushroom lunch deaths as woman's ex speaks out

The former husband of the woman who cooked a lunch with deadly mushrooms which killed three people has claimed his once lover tried to poison him.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[Elley Mae]

Isn’t it true that this lunch was an intervention? Was the meal served before or after the conversation started? Was there a second option of what to serve?