NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

[carbuff]

I can not think of any, although I am no expert, and all the profiles I have read support your idea that they need more stimulation as times goes on. But the one argument against dismemberment, IMO, is that it's raises the ante of getting caught and convicted becuase of the possible evidence left behind. If the sk has been at this for a long time, perhaps the fear of how DNA has evolved caused him to simplify, so to speak. Maybe his stimulation is now taking the avenue of calling and communicating with family members/ friends.

The unsolved dismemberment killings on LI go clear back to the 90's or maybe earlier, so he could be getting old enough that the exertion is too much for him.

eta: and that is not meant to refer specifically to anyone else who has been discussed. Just a general profiling observation.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Don't worry Kat! I have tunnel vision too, lol! Sometimes we all get stuck on our gut instinct. That's what I love about WS, we can all share our theories and opinions openly and respectfully and build on our collective thoughts and ideas.

I draw from what I learn from following other serial killer cases here on WS. The east coast serial rapist went thru a period of dormancy and there was speculation of a 'life event'. He went to a store where one of his victims worked and was followed by security for allegedly shoplifting baby clothes. The victim, who was working at the time, recognized his voice. Isn't that creepy! It was years later that he was caught. There is a thread on him here at WS.

Anyway, once he was apprehended, we learned that he did have a young child with his current gf. (hope I am recalling all this correctly:crazy

I love your mapping skills and appreciate all the work you, carbuff and others have put into this effort. It absolutley shows a pattern of the SK's movements and potential movements. (based on the missing people in the area) Would it tell us anything about the killer if a map showed each identified victims last seen/movements, cell phone pings, calls etc. based on the year of last seen? or no?

(OT I hope you all had a nice holiday weekend.)

MOO

wm

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are asking if the loop pattern somehow changes if I break the victims info (cell pings, last seen locations, etc.) down by year, yes? If that's your question, then the only variation noticeable to me, is that the last known sightings of the 2 earliest victims (MBB in 2007 and MB in 2009) fall outside of the LI loop pattern, and travel up to Manhattan. BUT, we now know that MBB's last cell phone activity was traced to a tower in LI, and MB was known to hand out in LI, where she was "chummy" with an older gentleman. So, it's VERY easy to bring these 2 earliest victims back into the LI loop. It's certainly possible our SK picked MB and MBB up in Manhattan and brought them back to LI, but what stands out to me is that ALL the victims were brought back to the loop. See what I'm saying?

If the SK's situation had somehow changed (where he lived, where he worked, the places he frequented), I think we should be able to see that as part of the pattern. We don't. So that leads me to believe nothing significant has changed for him since 2007. At least in terms of locations. We do seem to have a 2 year gap between 2007 and 2009, but since I have nothing to map for those years, I have no way of seeing if the pattern might have changed during that period.

Short answer to your question: No. I don't see any change to the pattern based on the year of each disappearance.

ETA: But, I'm not the only one mapping and looking at patterns, either. I'd be very interested to hear Carbuff, and others who are mapping, weigh in on this.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

But do the fantasies of killers ever evolve from extremely gruesome (dismemberment) to less gruesome (strangulation, no dismemberment)? I would think he would require more stimulation as time went on, not less.

I suppose they could in that the emphasis in the fantasy may not lie solely on how to discard the deceased. Again, it could be a matter of the dismembered being his early kills and at the time he thought that dismemberment would be the best way of disposal.
His fantasies evolve and are probably more emphatic about what he does sexually to the women while they are alive and/or dead--not necessarily as to how they are disposed.
However, fantasies are always better than real life. Things always turn out well in a fantasy where one is the producer, director and lead character. Too many things can go wrong when one brings it to real life. I bet he didn't expect to have to clean up so much tissue, blood etc. after his first dismemberment. The second time he was more prepared to any anticipated occurrences. That's just a lot of work when one is entering a cooling off period--there has got to be a better way.

During the cooling off period other fantasies arise and may focus on taunting LE since he likes to taunt folks so much. "Instead of doing all of that work of cutting up these filthy **** , I'll pose them. I've been dumping these *advertiser censored* for years and they haven't caught me yet. It's time that they know I'm out here. I'll face them towards the east (Long Island) and the Keystone Cops still won't catch me." So now the fantasy not only has a strong emphasis on the abuse and murder of the women but he will "get off" on displaying them. It's just something different and creative, plus, he's running out of places to hide the bodies. "I'll wrap them in burlap and basically hide them out in the open. It's much easier than doing all of that cutting through bone, cartilage and ligaments and less cleaning. I've got to be on the job in the morning---gotta get some rest." Plus, he is getting too old to exert the amount of strength and time it takes for dismemberment.

Just my opinion...what do I know?

 

[CarnacTheMagnificent]

But do the fantasies of killers ever evolve from extremely gruesome (dismemberment) to less gruesome (strangulation, no dismemberment)? I would think he would require more stimulation as time went on, not less.

The only thing I can think of, if these are all related. Maybe this person get off on the actual act of killing watching people suffer as it is happening. Afterwards, as has been said they are just trash. There was no enjoyment in dismemberment itself, but was just a method of disposal to cover his tracks.

Over the years with no sign of getting caught, and he decided it was no longer necessary.

 

[stillwatersc]

Let's stop and review.

MW: Last logged in to CL at 12:50 am on June 6, 2010 (Sunday). Last seen on security camera at 1:30 am that morning, walking away from the Holiday Inn Express in Happauge. Her boyfriend, Akeem Cruz, was apparently not at the hotel during this time. Sometime after MW went missing, her mother recieves a call at her place of employment from someone claiming to be LE wanting to talk about her daughter's case. She is convinced this call came from the SK and not LE.

MB: Last seen on July 10, 2009 (Sunday) sitting on a curb outside her apartment in The Bronx. According to her "boyfriend", she had a date lined up that night for $1000 in LI, but wouldn't tell him with whom. According to the "boyfriend", MB regularly hung out in LI with a girlfriend who was also an escort (wonder where SHE is now), and had an older man in LI who she was chummy with, and often hung out at his house. MB's sister recieved taunting calls from the SK, and if we are to believe MB's boyfriend, he also recieved taunting calls. Interesting to note that the boyfriend says the caller appeared to be drunk. ( thinking back to a message board comment left on a review site for someone interviewed in this case.)

ALC: Last seen leaving her home in West Babylon on Thursday, Sept.2, 2010. (3 months after MW disappeared). She had booked a date for $1500. She didn't tell her roomate or her sister who she had the date with (Interestingly, her sister believed ALC was going to enter rehab that weekend). The client called several times throughout the day, with the last calling coming in at 10:30 pm. According to DS, ALC had recieved a call a few weeks prior to going missing at about 1 am, from a john wanting her to meet him at the same Express Holiday Inn (Happauge) where MW had last been seen. From the article, it's difficult to tell if ALC actually went to this hotel, but my guess is that she did.

MBB: Last seen July 9, 2007 (Monday). That evening she called friends from NYPA Bus Terminal, saying she had been robbed of her days earnings and was coming home. She never got on the bus. Police subsequently track her cell phone activity to a cell tower in LI.

My info on Shannan is very minimal, apart from the info about the night she went missing. If anyone can fill in the gaps, please do.

SG: Books a date with JB at his home in the gated community in Oak Beach on May 1, 2010 (Saturday). She brings along a driver for security (unusual given that the other 4 victims went alone and were secretive about the date). She arrives sometime around 2 am., stays for about 3 hours, and then for some reason calls 911 from the house. She then flees the house, and knocks on neighbors doors begging for help. She shows up at GC's, he opens the door for her, and says he's calling 911. SG flees. GC follows her outside, sees an asian man in a black SUV (matches description of her driver) looking for SG, and asks what he is doing. The driver says he's looking for a girl who ran out of a party upset. SG is never seen again. The following day, SG's mother recieves a call from someone claiming to be Dr. PH. The caller says SG stayed at his house that night, and that she wanted out of the life and he was treating her at his rehab facility. When LE question Dr. PH about this, he adamantly denies it, stating that he's never even seen SG. LE question JB, I assume search his house that morning, but don't know this for a fact, and go on their merry way. When the bodies of the 4 other victims are discovered off Ocean Parkway in December, LE returns to JB's home, does a thorough search of his home, impounds his vehicle, but they turn up nothing.

(end of review)

All of these girls went missing early in the month. Although I think the holiday weeks theory has more merit, possibly he is striking at the beginning of the month for a reason. The only one I can think of is financial. He could be paid monthly at the end of the month and he needs the cash to pay her in case the kill plan is interrupted. I feel this SK only kills when he is confident that he has not been observed with the victim.

 

[carbuff]

I am considering that IF the cases are connected that a life event (marriage, arrest, birth of child) took place in the SK's life that cause him to adjust to an easier, quicker method of disposal.

This is something that struck me after reading that whole Gary Ridgeway site that I linked up thread. He changed things as time went by.

At this point in time, we have no evidence of any victims during 2008. If there are no victims confirmed missing in 2008 in the second set of remains, then there may be a reason that he was inactive during that time.

Hope this makes sense.

MOO

wm

What about Tanya Rush, who disappeared from Brooklyn 6/26/2008 and was found on an off-ramp in Bellmore? She worked as a prostitute and fits both the summer and the location patterns.

She has a (not very informative) WS page here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66658"]Identified! NY-Body Found on Long Island - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

There's also a Newsday article that starts "Tanya Rush of East New York worked as a prostitute in Brooklyn, police say, until she went missing in June 2008. Her body was found days later, stuffed in a suitcase along the Southern State Parkway in North Bellmore." The rest of the article is here: http://www.newsday.com/long-island/gilgo-cases-just-latest-li-unsolved-murders-1.2822697 but I can't read it because I'm not a subscriber.

 

[crimesnooper]

I don't know if this is still true but, I grew up on the north shore in Suffolk county and I found most people on the north shore rarely went to Jones Beach or the south shore unless it was the hamptons. It just seemed that north shore people stayed north and south stayed south. So I just think that the LI loop can be narrowed down to south of the LIE or mid island. I think he grew up there.

 

[Reannan]

So why again, are some of you talking about a white commercial truck along that beach road? Like I said, I haven't been here in a looong time, that is, for about a week. Everything keeps shifting constantly and I can't keep up.

I think this post had a picture:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6323324&postcount=60"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #4[/ame]

 

[truthspider]

Any known connection between PH and the drug rehablitation clinic in Hauppauge, NY?
Does he have a history of working with addicts or is that just a rumor?

Yes, there is a strong link. the office for the job PH held, SCPD police surgeon, and Director of Suffolk County's Emergency Medical Services, is located at 100 vets Hwy in Happauge. Google map it and notice the proximity to the Holiday Inn express 2 of the girls are connected to (within hundreds of yards).

I am from a town that borders Hauppauge, when I realized the proximity of the office and that hotel, combined with the fact that the bodies are ending up where they are.... it all but sealed the deal for me.

Anyone with a decent understanding of probability would tell you that the chance of girls going missing from where you work, and ending up dead where you live (20 miles apart) is pretty low (unless you transported them that is).

Now, combine that probability, with the probability that the Gilbert family picked your name from a hat and fabricated a damming phone call that points to you as a suspect....

you can go ask a math prof if you want, but it's akin to winning the "anti-lottery" if you ask me...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes, there is a strong link. the office for the job PH held, SCPD police surgeon, and Director of Suffolk County's Emergency Medical Services, is located at 100 vets Hwy in Happauge. Google map it and notice the proximity to the Holiday Inn express 2 of the girls are connected to (within hundreds of yards).

I am from a town that borders Hauppauge, when I realized the proximity of the office and that hotel, combined with the fact that the bodies are ending up where they are.... it all but sealed the deal for me.

Anyone with a decent understanding of probability would tell you that the chance of girls going missing from where you work, and ending up dead where you live (20 miles apart) is pretty low.

Now, combine that probability, with the probability that the Gilbert family picked your name from a hat and fabricated a damming phone call that points to you as a suspect....

you can go ask a math prof if you want, but it's akin to winning the "anti-lottery" if you ask me...

No way! I've been trying to connect him to Hauppage and/or Massapequa for a long time and was coming up empty handed! You totally rock, Truthspider!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes, there is a strong link. the office for the job PH held, SCPD police surgeon, and Director of Suffolk County's Emergency Medical Services, is located at 100 vets Hwy in Happauge. Google map it and notice the proximity to the Holiday Inn express 2 of the girls are connected to (within hundreds of yards).

I am from a town that borders Hauppauge, when I realized the proximity of the office and that hotel, combined with the fact that the bodies are ending up where they are.... it all but sealed the deal for me.

Anyone with a decent understanding of probability would tell you that the chance of girls going missing from where you work, and ending up dead where you live (20 miles apart) is pretty low.

Now, combine that probability, with the probability that the Gilbert family picked your name from a hat and fabricated a damming phone call that points to you as a suspect....

you can go ask a math prof if you want, but it's akin to winning the "anti-lottery" if you ask me...

No way! I've been trying to connect him to Hauppage and/or Massapequa for a long time and was coming up empty handed! You totally rock, Truthspider!

Running to look at my map!

 

[twocuriouscats]

Um, dare I ask? What is wet secret?

:floorlaugh:

 

[minazoe]

Mr H <mod snip> is hiding something.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Yes, there is a strong link. the office for the job PH held, SCPD police surgeon, and Director of Suffolk County's Emergency Medical Services, is located at 100 vets Hwy in Happauge. Google map it and notice the proximity to the Holiday Inn express 2 of the girls are connected to (within hundreds of yards).

I am from a town that borders Hauppauge, when I realized the proximity of the office and that hotel, combined with the fact that the bodies are ending up where they are.... it all but sealed the deal for me.

Anyone with a decent understanding of probability would tell you that the chance of girls going missing from where you work, and ending up dead where you live (20 miles apart) is pretty low (unless you transported them that is).

Now, combine that probability, with the probability that the Gilbert family picked your name from a hat and fabricated a damming phone call that points to you as a suspect....

you can go ask a math prof if you want, but it's akin to winning the "anti-lottery" if you ask me...

Do you know when he was director of EMS? Was it within the last couple of years or longer?


And I may be wrong but I think the EMS office and the HIExpress are a bit more than a few hundred yards away.

It could still be coincidental. I used to work in Hauppauge and I've driven on OP hundreds of times.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Holy cannoli! That's CLOSE!!

 

[Aleph]

The part that stood out to me is the person thinks he is angry with prostitutes because of something that happened a year ago. But the first known victim was killed 4 years ago.

Yeah, that was odd. These killings feel more personal than what that poster described. Everyone has said from the beginning that this is a sexual crime.

But I did find the job description part interesting. This intersection between law enforcement and medicine keeps cropping up again and again. That might be because we're creating an echo chamber in here, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Aleph]

Holy cannoli! That's CLOSE!!

I've got the same look on my face right now.

This case is crammed with absolutely bizarre coincidences.

 

[svpernin]

I've got the same look on my face right now.

This case is crammed with absolutely bizarre coincidences.

Yeah, and most of the coincidences involve JB and/or PH... just sayin...

ETA: I would love to find out if these two guys knew each other...

 

[carbuff]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are asking if the loop pattern somehow changes if I break the victims info (cell pings, last seen locations, etc.) down by year, yes? If that's your question, then the only variation noticeable to me, is that the last known sightings of the 2 earliest victims (MBB in 2007 and MB in 2009) fall outside of the LI loop pattern, and travel up to Manhattan. BUT, we now know that MBB's last cell phone activity was traced to a tower in LI, and MB was known to hand out in LI, where she was "chummy" with an older gentleman. So, it's VERY easy to bring these 2 earliest victims back into the LI loop. It's certainly possible our SK picked MB and MBB up in Manhattan and brought them back to LI, but what stands out to me is that ALL the victims were brought back to the loop. See what I'm saying?

If the SK's situation had somehow changed (where he lived, where he worked, the places he frequented), I think we should be able to see that as part of the pattern. We don't. So that leads me to believe nothing significant has changed for him since 2007. At least in terms of locations. We do seem to have a 2 year gap between 2007 and 2009, but since I have nothing to map for those years, I have no way of seeing if the pattern might have changed during that period.

Short answer to your question: No. I don't see any change to the pattern based on the year of each disappearance.

ETA: But, I'm not the only one mapping and looking at patterns, either. I'd be very interested to hear Carbuff, and others who are mapping, weigh in on this.

In no particular order:

I think there are quite a few other murders that we don't have bodies for yet. Many of them are probably missing people from that master list I posted a while back, but many others were probably never reported missing.

I don't think there's a second dumping ground per se. I think the entire loop area is the dumping ground, and there are probably bodies that haven't been found all along the way.

I think the many if not most of the trails start in the Port Authority terminal, Penn Station, the Camden NJ terminal, and possibly Jersey City and Atlantic City as well (though I don't think the AC murders are related). I think this is because he either lives in, works in, or frequently has reason to travel to or through these other areas.

I used to think he was a summer person. Even though all the bodies and dates we have are summer murders, I'm less sure of that now. But there's something seasonal about it.

I'm not sure whether the dismemberment killer is the same one who left the bodies along the Parkway. I'm inclined to think he is -- but if not, most of what I'm thinking is about the dismemberment killer.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Yeah, and most of the coincidences involve JB and/or PH... just sayin...

ETA: I would love to find out if these two guys knew each other...

Truthfully though I think people could find coincidences with a lot of people if they were looking for them.

If I try hard enough I could link my husband to the case..... His brother knows JB. He used to drive a tow truck for the company that handles the parkways. That company is right down the block from JB. He now works for a utility company and drives a white truck. So no one would notice him pulled over on the side of the road on OP. We have a 4wd permit....


I'm not saying there is no connection but I think it's easy to find connections when you look hard enough. JMHO of course