FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[jjenny]

At least it will calm people down for the time being. The way this is going the longer it is drawn out with no arrest, the more potential for this to get ugly. Arrest him, so the family can at least go through the judicial system and have their day in court. Then see how much it calms people down. At least they will be able to see it play out in court, unlike what they are seeing now, the police making the decision because 'there is no evidence'

It's not up to me whether they arrest him or not (and it's not like I am going to be sorry for GZ if they arrested him), but I am not sure they should arrest people based on public pressure.

 

[LambChop]

We don't know why he might have attacked him. Maybe he was in fight-or-flight mode, maybe he was mad, felt accosted, who knows.

Maybe he was scared sh**less. I know I would have been. jmo

 

[jjenny]

The point is that either way.....the FACTS will come out and it will not depend on opinion. The technology of voice matching has court case precedents for YEARS.

Well I really hope they can do voice matching.

 

[annalia]

IMO, this SYG law is not being applied by LE as it was intended by the legislators who wrote and passed it. As I understand, the law was passed in order to protect hurricane victims from looters. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Part of my outrage is due to the SYG law being used as defense in situations not for it's original intention. (does that sentence make sense?)

I learned of this law in the Trevor Dooley case. Dooley shot and killed a father in front of his own daughter, on a basketball court, in a private community for the simple reason that the father (sorry can't recall his name but he was a former marine) stood up for a skateboarder who was skating on the community basketball court. IIRC, Dooley exited his home to confront the skateboarder and the former marine said he gave the child permission. Dooly then raised his shirt to show the former soldier a gun in his pants and somehow the dad was shot down in front of his daughter and the young skater who will both be scarred for the rest of their lives. I was appalled to learn that Dooley would most likely get off due to the SYG law.

I appreciate Horace and jenny posting about the reality of this law. I don't like it and I don't agree with it but the frank discussion is enlightening.

wm

moo

That is a horrible case, I saw an interview with his wife today , just heartbreaking.

The big difference I see though is at least Dooley was arrested and it will be determined at trial.

Police at the scene were the judge and jury, deciding that GZ was just acting in self defense, until it became a public outrage, now we're seeing an investigation. The police chief came out with comments that were sounding as if he was GZ's defense attorney before he did a thorough investigation.

JMHO.

 

[Marshmallow]

GZ may have thought Trayvon was armed, he obviously thought he was up to no good, so he may well have been in fear for his life.

then why in the world did he go after him and accost him?

 

[HiHater]

It might very well be GZ screaming. The witness who saw it supports the idea that it was GZ screaming "help."

""The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John."

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1psjHmbvn

You're choosing to rely on one inaccurate report, after it's been pointed out to you that the article is, in fact, inaccurate... We should ignore the other witnesses who heard a CHILD screaming. Those who say it was Trayvon.

Why does George Zimmerman have on both a red jacket according to some and a white shirt according to others. At what point during this fatally intense physical combat did he have time to undress?

 

[Boytwnmom]

his action is not in a vaccum where he just happened to say "Hey, watcha doin" to some passerby. He was working himself up, "This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something"" and worried because " He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male...Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is...These *******s, they always get away."

So, if you are safe in your car and you THINK someone is a dangerous criminal and that they have a weapon and are a threat to you and you call 911, do you stay in your car as the police advise or do you take it upon yourself to go out there and follow and confront the dangerous criminal you've spotted? In the world of most reasonable people you let the cops do their job and if you decide to voluntarily undertake to apprehend a criminal who has not committed a crime in your presence and poses no danger to you then you are responsible in the legal sense for what happens thereafter and if you are completely and totally wrong and the dangerous criminal is a kid with skittles and you shoot and kill him, you need to be arrested and tell your story to the jury.

Well, the way WE on this board define aggression isn't the way the law does. In the eyes of the law, approaching someone and asking what they are doing is not a crime. It's not an illegal act of aggression. Thank God, I think.

 

[Marshmallow]

We don't know who started the physical confrontation though.

we do know who the aggressor was, Mr Zimmerman got out of his car, with gun in his possession and went after Mr Martin to confront him. He had no reason to do so other than to cause an altercation.

 

[HiHater]

We don't know why he might have attacked him. Maybe he was in fight-or-flight mode, maybe he was mad, felt accosted, who knows.

Fight or flight mode? Trayvon CLEARLY picked flight, but was pursued even after that.

 

[JeannaT]

A person who is armed and up to no good would NEVER physically attack someone. Never have I ever heard of that happening...

I COMPLETELY agree that a person who is armed would NEVER physically attack someone, and that's why I'm pretty convinced GZ didn't attack Trayvon. People who are packing heat don't initiate hand combat with opponents that look like they're a match.

(and despite the weight difference, GZ was fat, not big and muscular. Fat doesn't make someone fight well).

 

[mikeysmommom]

The woman on 911 did not see who was screaming. We have one witness who claims to have actually seen who was screaming, and he says it was GZ. And he is correct describing GZ as wearing red since police report states GZ was wearing red.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1psjHmbvn

It was also said on a 911 call the one with the red is being attacked.This person was asked the color of the man and said they had no idea it was dark.

 

[Salem]

Was the gun visible?

I have not read all the posts - I'm just quickly checking in, here, so this may have been answered, but I'm pretty sure I read in the Police Report that when the officer arrived - GZ's gun was in his waistband. GZ responded to the Officer's verbal directions and was then handcuffed and taken to the patrol car.

Salem (bbm)

 

[princesspjs]

You're choosing to rely on one inaccurate report, after it's been pointed out to you that the article is, in fact, inaccurate... We should ignore the other witnesses who heard a CHILD screaming. Those who say it was Trayvon.

Why does George Zimmerman have on both a red jacket according to some and a white shirt according to others. At what point during this fatally intense physical combat did he have time to undress?

I wonder the same thing....he has just killed a child and he got a little chilly so he put on his jacket before the police got there? When did he take his jacket off? Did he take it off when he asked Tray what he was doing there?

 

[Marshmallow]

He wasn't afraid initially obviously.

He became afraid during a physical altercation.

I've seen a lot of people keep saying obviously GZ wasn't afraid or he wouldn't have pursued him.

But it seems pretty obvious that GZ had no idea he would be physically attacked.

he took a gun.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Sorry, but I don't understand all this nail-biting, hand-wringing, and talk of "pending" riots just because people are protesting and rightfully upset, IMO, about a serious injustice.

Where were the histrionics during the numerous Occupy protests?

<modsnip>

The king riots were in the 90's we hadn't progressed then. This is a highly volatile situation, and it only continues to grow. There is only so much tension that can build, and then it needs to be released. By the police, and DOJ lack of action, it is only continuing to grow the tension. There are people all over the United states willing to go out to a protest in their local city because of this. This is no longer a Sandford issue, it is a NATIONAL issue.

 

[jjenny]

You're choosing to rely on one inaccurate report, after it's been pointed out to you that the article is, in fact, inaccurate... We should ignore the other witnesses who heard a CHILD screaming. Those who say it was Trayvon.

Why does George Zimmerman have on both a red jacket according to some and a white shirt according to others. At what point during this fatally intense physical combat did he have time to undress?

Well if we are going to be accurate, they heard screaming. They can't say who was screaming with any reasonable degree of certainty, regardless of what they came to believe now.
And we know GZ had on a red jacket based on police report. So witness that described someone as wearing white t-shirt had to be mistaken.

 

[Velouria]

GZ may have thought Trayvon was armed, he obviously thought he was up to no good, so he may well have been in fear for his life.

Okay, so GZ thinks TM is armed and up to no good.

I know the first thing I would do if I were in fear for my life is to pursue this suspicious armed person on foot, because that makes perfect sense.

Uh huh.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder the same thing....he has just killed a child and he got a little chilly so he put on his jacket before the police got there? When did he take his jacket off? Did he take it off when he asked Tray what he was doing there?

There was ONE 911 witness who claimed to have seen someone in white t-shirt. I am pretty sure that witness was mistaken, since police report states GZ was wearing red.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

If he was so afraid, then he should have stayed in his car like he was cautioned to do.

Pre-altercation he may not have been afraid. During altercation could have been a different story.

 

[JeannaT]

Okay, so GZ thinks TM is armed and up to no good.

I know the first thing I would do if I were in fear for my life is to pursue this suspicious armed person on foot, because that makes perfect sense.

Uh huh.

Well, no.

People who have kind of misunderstood the situation and timeline think GZ is saying he was initially afraid of Trayvon. Obviously, it didn't go that way.

I'm really a little surprised why people keep saying this, when honestly, it must be obvious to everyone that at first, when GZ began following Trayvon he wasn't afraid of him.

It wasn't until he was jumped that he became afraid.

That seems to go without question.