CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #44

[*Lash*]

Thank you to everyone who answered my hypothetical polygraph question :tyou:

After reading all of your opinions, I may have changed my mind regarding what I would do in this situation. Of course no one ever really knows what they will do when you come face to face with reality.

 

[TxLady2]

Carrying over a couple of things from the last thread (hopefully this works right on the quotes):



I think this has been addressed but I didn't see if the specifics from the show/transcripts were quoted. I don't think they got very far into the poly, I think they were just on the introductory/pre-qualifying type questions. After the door shut the graphic on screen said it was 20 minutes later when the poly was stopped. MR said that they were asking him questions and that one of the questions was about if he felt well enough to take it. From the transcript, with a couple of things BBM:

"MR: A question was asked if I gave an honest answer to it. The question was, do you feel well enough to take this test, and my response to that question was, No. It became clear that by answering no to that question that... there was no point in proceeding any farther.

JT: Mark decided that he didn’t feel well enough to take the polygraph test. He told me he had about 3 hours of sleep last night and he had a ½ bottle of Jim Beam on top of things, so.... Uh... he doesn’t feel well enough to take the test.

<snip>

JT: Well, he was agitated because he said that this was kind of thrust upon him. He didn’t expect to be doing this, and um... he needed time to think it all out. He didn’t want to take it. He didn’t trust the process. I was, quite frankly, getting fatigued. I would ask question and he would give me the answer to something else. Until finally I just had to say, are we doing this or not?"

The answer there was that they were not, because of MR's answer. Then there was some further discussion on it:

<snip>
"Dr. Phil: So he said he didn’t believe in the test and doesn’t trust anybody. He showed up at 8:00 this morning. You set up to do the test, and what took place then?

JT: I had questions about the man that I met this morning physically and in appearance versus the man I met yesterday. Uh…
Mark was… disheveled, and when I later asked him, have you had any alcohol or drugs in the last 24 hours, he said, yeah I had a ½ bottle of Jim Beam last night. Well, he started to give me excuses why he wasn’t going to take the test, and one of the questions that I needed to ask him in that pre-test portion of the exam is, do you feel well enough to take this exam, and he said, no.

<snip>

JT: You didn’t look so spiffy this morning. You know I should have asked you, are you suffering the effects of the Jim Beam, or just not feeling good?

MR: Well... I didn’t have a lot of Jim Beam. I mean, I wanna make that... When I say 1/2 bottle I’m not talking about a big bottle, I’m talking about a small bottle, like a pint size…

JT: So what was it that affected you to the point where we couldn’t go forward?

MR: Well... and I guess when you were asking me these questions and you asked that question and I responded to it and I gave you my answer, I guess I was… I was expecting another question to follow that one, and... and... and at that point when it stopped.

JT: Well, actually, it wasn’t a question though, Mark. It was a statement by me and I said, well that’s a disqualifier. If you don’t feel well enough to take this test, then we’re not gonna’ do it.

MR: Right... but the question was, do I feel well enough to take it? My response was, No, and.... and… instead of having another question followed behind that, when you reacted to that, and... and... said what you said, I was a bit taken by that.

Dr. Phil: Do you wanna’ take it?

MR: Well I don’t know that... that.... That… At the point we are right now with that question I don’t think that my answer is any different now that it was two hours ago.

Dr. Phil: So you don’t want to take it.

MR: Pause... Not if... if it means that my answer to that question is, no, then it’s no now. You know, maybe now isn’t the time to be taking the polygraph test, and I believe that that’s where we’re at with that."

Hope that helps.

Thanks, I appreciate you looking all this up. I have not read all the transcripts for the 2nd show yet.

 

[La Louve]

Just a little insight into LE in southwest CO. I live in a county adjacent to La Plata County. My daughter went missing when she was 15. She left our house after she and I had a massive blowout over doing dishes. I really figured she'd be back after she cooled off. She left her cell phone at our house, which was very unusual for her.

We called dispatch less than 24 hours after she left. Our local police and county sheriff's department were scarily unconcerned. No one was ever sent to our house to take statements. We repeatedly offered to give them pictures of her. They finally agreed to look at one THREE DAYS after she left.

Long long long story short, my husband and I went through her phone and called every single number there. We drove around and talked to her friends and parents of her friends for hours and hours. We finally narrowed it down to two guys that she had been seen with before we couldn't track her any longer.

We gave those two names to LE. They searched the apartment of one of them. The guy actually called the police and asked them to search his apartment because he wanted us to know he wasn't involved. She wasn't there, of course.

The other guy? The police told us he was a great kid. There was no way he'd be involved. My husband and I sat in his driveway for an hour before he'd even talk to us. When he finally did, he gave several conflicting accounts of what he did with her. We called the police with that information, and they just didn't care. Couldn't be bothered. One even told us that they'd get more involved if she was still gone in A WEEK!

Turns out that second kid transported her to another state. Our local LE didn't give two *advertiser censored* because they figured she was a runaway. It probably would have taken them half an hour to question that second kid and figure out where she was. We weren't smart about it, but we were tenacious. WE got her back while they basically refused to help.

Your story fleshes out a concern that has been lurking in the back of my mind with respect to Dylan's disappearance. Thank you for sharing your experience and insight. I'm so sorry for what you went through and so relieved you got your daughter back!

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space and clarity on what I'm responding to> There is no test for alcohol consumption only drug use.
So unless hes caught drinking or alcohol on breath he wont be found out!

I just wanted to quickly note that there are tests that can be done for alcohol consumption. If it was such a short time before, which it sounds like it was (under 12 hours, maybe less if he had such a hard time sleeping), there are a number of tests that could be used. There are breath, blood, urine, and saliva tests that could all be administered. AFAIK only the blood test would require a medical type person to do it. The urine's your typical "pee in a cup," the saliva is a mouth/cheek swab, and the breath is a breathalyzer - probably not as fancy as what the cops use, but I'm sure Dr. Phil could get his hands on some type of breathalyzer if he wanted to. As far as I know those will really only test if there's still/currently alcohol in the person's system so after a certain # of hours it wouldn't be detectable. There's also a hair test although I don't think it's widely used in the US. Here's more info on the various tests for alcohol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test#Alcohol. According to the site here's what can be checked, and how long alcohol is still detectable depending on the test type:

Urine: 6-24 hours. There's also a separate test that can measure EtG (I'm not sure what that is but seems it's a byproduct of alcohol consumption?) for up to 80 hours.

Hair: up to 2 days.

Blood / saliva: 12-24 hours.

They don't specify breath here so I'm not sure how long that one's effective. I would guess it's probably the shortest time span but I don't know.

I know it's probably outside of what they would normally do but I really wish Dr. Phil, JT, or some other specialist type person had tested his alcohol level that morning when he showed up for the poly. Not because I really care what was in his system or how much, but because it'd shed some kind of light on his motivations. If there was no alcohol in his system, he was making excuses. If there was, it could've been planned or unplanned on his part but at least it would answer one of the many questions I have.

 

[nikb]

Thanks, I appreciate you looking all this up. I have not read all the transcripts for the 2nd show yet.

You're welcome! I know it's a little jumbled without reading the whole thing together, but I hope it gives the gist of what happened.

I also meant to include links for the transcripts - sorry I forgot them the first time:
Day 1: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8944123&postcount=94"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO CO - Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *Media , Maps & Timelines*[/ame]

Day 2: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8952177&postcount=97"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO CO - Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 Nov 2012 *Media , Maps & Timelines*[/ame]

 

[azgrandma]

I"m just catching up and haven't read a single post here, but wanted to say one thing and then ask one thing of all of you.

There has been referenced a post that I put on here "a little boy who just wanted to see his dad"
I did want to clarify this statement so that it isn't mistaken, when I made this statement, I was speaking in simplistic terms, meaning that Dylan is just a little boy that wanted to see his dad and visit his friends, just like any other little boy on vacation. The same as when I say little babies just want to be loved and cuddled.
It should not be taken that I have any knowledge that this is what Dylan "wanted" as in "desired". I have no idea if Dylan wanted or did not want to see his dad. I hope that helps.

Now for my question......I have been trying to search for my statement and for the life of me I can't find it! Can someone (in pm so it doesn't waste others time here) explain to me how to easily and effectively search for past comments by anyone???!!! I spent over 30 minutes searching and had NO luck, I did find out that you are limited in the number of searches you can do though
Thanks for your help!!!!!!

 

[cluciano63]

I"m just catching up and haven't read a single post here, but wanted to say one thing and then ask one thing of all of you.

There has been referenced a post that I put on here "a little boy who just wanted to see his dad"
I did want to clarify this statement so that it isn't mistaken, when I made this statement, I was speaking in simplistic terms, meaning that Dylan is just a little boy that wanted to see his dad and visit his friends, just like any other little boy on vacation. The same as when I say little babies just want to be loved and cuddled.
It should not be taken that I have any knowledge that this is what Dylan "wanted" as in "desired". I have no idea if Dylan wanted or did not want to see his dad. I hope that helps.

Now for my question......I have been trying to search for my statement and for the life of me I can't find it! Can someone (in pm so it doesn't waste others time here) explain to me how to easily and effectively search for past comments by anyone???!!! I spent over 30 minutes searching and had NO luck, I did find out that you are limited in the number of searches you can do though
Thanks for your help!!!!!!

I think if you click on your own name in the post you just made, you should be able to view your own posts?

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

"MR: A question was asked if I gave an honest answer to it. The question was, do you feel well enough to take this test, and my response to that question was, No. It became clear that by answering no to that question that... there was no point in proceeding any farther.

JT: Mark decided that he didn&#8217;t feel well enough to take the polygraph test. He told me he had about 3 hours of sleep last night and he had a ½ bottle of Jim Beam on top of things, so.... Uh... he doesn&#8217;t feel well enough to take the test.

<snip>

JT: Well, he was agitated because he said that this was kind of thrust upon him. He didn&#8217;t expect to be doing this, and um... he needed time to think it all out. He didn&#8217;t want to take it. He didn&#8217;t trust the process. I was, quite frankly, getting fatigued. I would ask question and he would give me the answer to something else. Until finally I just had to say, are we doing this or not?"

Snipped and BBM by me

Why does that not surprise me? I have a feeling this is exactly what LE went through with their LDT. How can you give someone a LDT when they won't give a direct answer and constantly change the subject? I can imaging it's exhausting!

 

[Eileen730]

Could they be looking for the 2 boys supposedly seen by the mail lady?

Yes from what I read!

 

[deoneta]

I"m just catching up and haven't read a single post here, but wanted to say one thing and then ask one thing of all of you.

There has been referenced a post that I put on here "a little boy who just wanted to see his dad"
I did want to clarify this statement so that it isn't mistaken, when I made this statement, I was speaking in simplistic terms, meaning that Dylan is just a little boy that wanted to see his dad and visit his friends, just like any other little boy on vacation. The same as when I say little babies just want to be loved and cuddled.
It should not be taken that I have any knowledge that this is what Dylan "wanted" as in "desired". I have no idea if Dylan wanted or did not want to see his dad. I hope that helps.

Now for my question......I have been trying to search for my statement and for the life of me I can't find it! Can someone (in pm so it doesn't waste others time here) explain to me how to easily and effectively search for past comments by anyone???!!! I spent over 30 minutes searching and had NO luck, I did find out that you are limited in the number of searches you can do though
Thanks for your help!!!!!!

There's a little green dot by everyone's username on their posts. Click that dot and you get a little pull down. One of the choices is see all posts.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

You know I've never been in the situation of having a child go missing, but i do know myself well enough to know that I would do anything and everything possible without hesitation. If I took a LDT and failed (knowing myself) I would probably become outraged and insist that it was wrong and insist that they do it again. And again if necessary. I might request a different examiner. But I would not give up. I'm not a quitter and if I have to fight to prove my point, I will fight to prove my point. And if I needed to prove my innocence I would do whatever it took. I would not react the same way if I was taking a poly and failed for something other than my child going missing. But if it happened regarding my missing child, I would be screaming that I didn't do it until I convinced them this is true. Whatever it took. There is no way I would walk away and let them think I had anything to do with it. A lawyer would not cross my mind, because again my focus would not be on ME.

 

[Eileen730]

I just wanted to quickly note that there are tests that can be done for alcohol consumption. If it was such a short time before, which it sounds like it was (under 12 hours, maybe less if he had such a hard time sleeping), there are a number of tests that could be used. There are breath, blood, urine, and saliva tests that could all be administered. AFAIK only the blood test would require a medical type person to do it. The urine's your typical "pee in a cup," the saliva is a mouth/cheek swab, and the breath is a breathalyzer - probably not as fancy as what the cops use, but I'm sure Dr. Phil could get his hands on some type of breathalyzer if he wanted to. As far as I know those will really only test if there's still/currently alcohol in the person's system so after a certain # of hours it wouldn't be detectable. There's also a hair test although I don't think it's widely used in the US. Here's more info on the various tests for alcohol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test#Alcohol. According to the site here's what can be checked, and how long alcohol is still detectable depending on the test type:

Urine: 6-24 hours. There's also a separate test that can measure EtG (I'm not sure what that is but seems it's a byproduct of alcohol consumption?) for up to 80 hours.

Hair: up to 2 days.

Blood / saliva: 12-24 hours.

They don't specify breath here so I'm not sure how long that one's effective. I would guess it's probably the shortest time span but I don't know.

I know it's probably outside of what they would normally do but I really wish Dr. Phil, JT, or some other specialist type person had tested his alcohol level that morning when he showed up for the poly. Not because I really care what was in his system or how much, but because it'd shed some kind of light on his motivations. If there was no alcohol in his system, he was making excuses. If there was, it could've been planned or unplanned on his part but at least it would answer one of the many questions I have.

LOL I know about all the tests we were talking jobs and I know employers do drug testing but they dont test for alcohol. AFAIK.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Hypothetically, if you were 100% innocent and failed a polygraph, would you take another one? I personally would take a polygraph if my child went missing, but if I was 100% innocent and failed, I would no longer trust the process. I would not agree to a second test. I am not postulating this is what happened in MR's case. This is just something I have been thinking about. Especially when I think about Breeann Rodriguez and her parents. Just food for thought.

Emphatically, YES. I would take a polygraph a hundred times. I know how easy it is to fail a polygraph (since I was unable to pass one on my own name on a specific day), I place no emphasis on the outcome, just in the behavior of the person and how willing they are to lay everything on the line to find their child.

 

[SuperMom1995]

This is in response to statements made about the polygraph being inadmissable in a court of law so why look at it at all?

A polygraph is admissable in a case:

To impeach a witness ( showing they said one thing in poly but another on the stand;

As character witness bc what was said on poly bolsters the defendants character;

To show how a witness story developed;

In a sentancing hearing;

If both parties stipulate the poly can be admitted;

In a bench trial;

And more... Here is the link: http://www.lbierman.com/alternativeapproach.html

 

[Ghostwheel]

Most guys I know don't do "feelings" about anything. IMO

Most men would just say "LE screwed up that last one, I'm not taking your stupid test." and be done with it if they didn't want to take the test. And if they did want to take the test....they'd just take it and not say they didn't feel well enough to do so. IMHO.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Emphatically, YES. I would take a polygraph a hundred times. I know how easy it is to fail a polygraph (since I was unable to pass one on my own name on a specific day), I place no emphasis on the outcome, just in the behavior of the person and how willing they are to lay everything on the line to find their child.

BBM

Yes I believe this is probably more telling than the actual results of the LDT.

 

[Eileen730]

I thought MR took one poly with LE and didnt do well and was supposed to take one with the FBI.

 

[dlc]

Most guys I know don't do "feelings" about anything. IMO

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I've got to stick up for the guys here. I know some great fathers, who most certainly do "feelings."

IMO

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Most men would just say "LE screwed up that last one, I'm not taking your stupid test." and be done with it if they didn't want to take the test. And if they did want to take the test....they'd just take it and not say they didn't feel well enough to do so. IMHO.

I fully expected MR to be asked to take a LDT on DP and I fully expected him to refuse and give an excuse of some sort. I wouldn't have thought much of that.

What he did instead shocked me and really made me stop and think....there's seriously something wrong with this guy! Either that or he's lying through his teeth! Or both. (I tend to think both but that's MOO) I found it so much more eye opening than results of a LDT!

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

From what we know today...

In my opinion - Explainable Events (meaning could have an easy explanation)
• Dylan did not visit friends Sunday because MR thought it was too late.
• Dylan liked McDonalds or didn't want to sit down with MR after being told no friends tonight.
• Dylan was too tired to wake up early Monday.
• Nickelodeon Channel.

In my opinion - Unexplainable Events (meaning hard to explain away)
• Electronic communication stopped at 9:37pm Sunday.
• If Dylan left the house on his own accord, he contacted no one.

I badly wish DP, MB or anyone that interviewed Mark would have asked him more specific questions about Sunday night. More about what MR witnessed regarding Dylan's cellphone or iPod activity that night. Was Dylan sleeping when MR went to bed at 10:30 and did Dylan have his phone or iPod in his hands. Straight up ask MR if he did anything to Dylan's phone.

Thanks button wasn't enough. Great post! Love these lists, it really helps clarify, gives focus and food for thought.

Re: BBM - I agree that this is explainable. The explanation however, could be open for debate. Too late, could mean too late at night. That explanation doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, since they were on the road by after 7 and home (according to MR in his interview) around 8:30. In my opinion, it could have meant too late according to carefully thought out plans. If, the Monday rounds were planned as an alibi, DR had to be at MRs home Sunday. Had DR come in on Saturday that would be different. But Sunday would have been too late. Just one theory, all my own opinion, if premeditation was present.