Dylan Redwine Case Discussion Thread/Dylan's Remains Found

[caffeinejean]

After reviewing a few of the latest news releases, I believe I see a pattern of LE meeting with MR everyday since he arrived back in Durango on Thursday. Could the heat be on even more than we know?
IIRC there was an article or video released where Mark said the location was just out his front door, across the street or something like that. Then he expressed his desire to see where his son had been found, and even said, so he could be close to him (paraphrasing). Then he said, He had no idea where the spot was. For the life of me I can't find those articles again. But I did find these...and they would have him with LE everyday since Thursday, up until Saturday night. Now, he will be meeting again on Tuesday.


Dylan Redwine Memorial
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixUsq2rGTpQ"]Dylan Redwine Memorial - YouTube[/ame]

1:41 on KOAT
Dylan's father, Mark Redwine says he met with investigators on Friday. Redwine said authorities showed him the area, north of Vaceitto Lake, where they found Dylan's remains.

LE does not share concerns about MR knowing where Dylan was found:

http://durangoherald.com/article/20130629/NEWS01/130629447/‘He-was-an-amazing-person’-

Before the vigil, Mark Redwine said he met with law enforcement Saturday and went with them up to Middle Mountain to the area where they found some of Dylan’s remains.

“It was horrific. It was unimaginable,” Redwine said. “No parent should go up there” in a situation like this, he said

Imamaze posted this in the media thread. ty ima.

Emotional Candlelight Vigil Held For Dylan Redwine

June 30, 2013 2:25 PM

Mark Redwine says he’s been asked to retrace the case facts with investigators on Tuesday.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/06/30/emotional-candlelight-vigil-held-for-dylan-redwine/

 

[Lordeebee]

There was no snow in November and not until early December was there? tia

interesting question., it wasn't snowing at the level of MR's home as I recall, but I wonder if it was snowing at the higher elevation at Middle Mountain in November. I do remember MR saying on Tricia's show that LE had mentioned to him that the gate (again don't know what elevation the gate is at) had been closed until recently.

 

[Foxfire]

This is how an MSM article put it:

About 45 officers spent five days searching a 12-mile stretch of Middle Mountain Road looking for clues in the case this week. The search had been planned as a follow-up after snow melted this spring.

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2154...ind-remains-of-13-year-old-dylan-redwine.html

I think the searchers searched, with a focus in the lake area, until the snow came, then planned for follow-on searches after the melt.

DR's remains were located in or near a drainage ditch on Middle Mountain. Guess, this would explain the cadaver K9 hits numerous times in the reservoir. Hindsight, huh?...

Map Link;
A Middle Mountain Road, Bayfield, CO
B Vallecito Lake, San Juan National Forest, Colorado

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...7,0.013797&oq=middle+mountain&mra=ls&t=h&z=15

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/192113/abqnewsseeker/updated-reservoir-searched-for-dylan.html

Reservoir searched for Dylan

“We’re searching a specific area where we’ve had dog alerts,” Bender told the paper. “With the snow gone and the ice gone, we’re able to search that area.”

“We have had alerts by dogs numerous times from November up until now,” Bender said. “We have pursued all of those as detailed as we could, and none of them have proved positive.”

Since November, investigators have searched the reservoir area at least 15 times, using search dogs, divers, boats equipped with sonar, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, The Herald said.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana, do you think the content of Dylan's private talk with the judge this fall will come out in a trial, if the suspect is MR?

No. It is totally sealed and will remain so.

FWIW, MR himself admits this in an interview with Tricia:

88:16
MR:
Well, obviously I think that it was a stressful time for Dylan because, you know, in September we were in a court hearing. His mom had filed a motion for him to speak directly to the judge in judge’s chambers. You know that all took place. Um….for whatever reason from that point until the time that he got on the plane there was nnnnn…..little or no contact at all between the two of us, although I tried many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times to

Dylan Redwine *Media , Maps & Timelines* - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



At least officially, LE denies any particular reason for searching the area. Maybe there is a subsequent source for that info that I didn't find.

"No particular clue prompted the Middle Mountain Road search, [Bender] said."
http://durangoherald.com/article/20...Searchers-spend-5-days-seeking-Redwine-clues-

No. There was no statement about any clue and my post did not infer there was. However, my post did infer that such a clue exists.

There was no snow in November and not until early December was there? tia

I don't know. I do know this:

Searches for the boy, which had been called off during the winter months, resumed in the spring.
The latest searches, through deep canyons, dense forest and extensive ground cover, were not the result of new information, Bender said. They were part of a series of follow-up searches conducted after the snow melted. http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_23553442

Thank you, but I was posting in reference to the fact that someone said they were directed there by cell phone pings. This was early in the investigation, and there was no snow early in the investigation. I was just trying to clarify that fact. ty

I never said they were directed there by cell phone pings. I said I think they were. There has been no information released whatsoever as to what directed them to that particular location.

My speculation is based on pure logic. Finding a body in such a location is like finding a needle in a haystack, or worse, if you have no idea where to start. Think of Kyron Horman, Jhessye Shockley, Haleigh Cummings, Amber Dubois. These bodies aren't found unless someones confesses, a random hunter or other passerby luckily stumbles upon them or, a clue directs them to specific location.

I think a lot of people have no clue how vast the west is. This is still a lot like the wild west of 200 years ago. It is very remote. Not a lot there. I mean, just zoom out on the linked map: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=midd...F-8&ei=MRXRUdrRJ6ayigLO64GgAw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg There's just nothing there. So tell me how they knew to search there and why private search parties had been in the same area before LE resumed official searches?

Clearly, logic tells us there has been a clue. We know no one confessed. We know the discovery was not as a result of an accidental find. They had been purposefully searching the area. Something directed them there. So, what kind of clue?

I think we are narrowed to a possible sighting or cell phone pings. I think cell phone pings are more likely. Which I have stated in a few posts thus far. Which is the basis for why I think there that's what led LE to that specific, remote location in the middle of a darn huge mountain range.

 

[Dr. Know?]

After reviewing a few of the latest news releases, I believe I see a pattern of LE meeting with MR everyday since he arrived back in Durango on Thursday. Could the heat be on even more than we know?

IIRC there was an article or video released where Mark said the location was just out his front door, across the street or something like that. Then he expressed his desire to see where his son had been found, and even said, so he could be close to him (paraphrasing). Then he said, He had no idea where the spot was. For the life of me I can't find those articles again. But I did find these...and they would have him with LE everyday since Thursday, up until Saturday night. Now, he will be meeting again on Tuesday.


Dylan Redwine Memorial
Dylan Redwine Memorial - YouTube

1:41 on KOAT
Dylan's father, Mark Redwine says he met with investigators on Friday. Redwine said authorities showed him the area, north of Vaceitto Lake, where they found Dylan's remains.




Before the vigil, Mark Redwine said he met with law enforcement Saturday and went with them up to Middle Mountain to the area where they found some of Dylan’s remains.

“It was horrific. It was unimaginable,” Redwine said. “No parent should go up there” in a situation like this, he said

My exact thoughts since reading about the Tuesday meeting. Also, if I read Tricia's show correctly (ty Lurkiee for the transcripts!) & what was posted above, I'm getting more positive about Dylan's justice.

The words

92:40
MR:
for Dylan to have been in, and I felt like it was a waste of our time to be up in this area because there’s few, if any, houses up there at all, and…"

 

[gitana1]

BBM: No particular clue, but what about a bunch of clues? No particular CLUE does not necessarily mean no particular REASON. JMO

Oh, I think there was a particular clue alright. They have no particular clue just like they have no particular suspect, IMO.

 

[gitana1]

OFF Topic:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/us/firefighters-killed-in-yarnell-arizona-wildfire.html?_r=0

19 Firefighters Are Killed Battling Arizona Wildfire

That is incredibly horrific. NINETEEN FIREFIGHTERS DEAD. That's horrible.

 

[Foxfire]

interesting question., it wasn't snowing at the level of MR's home as I recall, but I wonder if it was snowing at the higher elevation at Middle Mountain in November. I do remember MR saying on Tricia's show that LE had mentioned to him that the gate (again don't know what elevation the gate is at) had been closed until recently.

http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_LemonDam_Bayfield_CO_November.html

*Monthly Weather Data for Bayfield, CO [Colorado] ("Lemon Dam") : NOVEMBER, 2012

Year Lowest
Temperature
(F) Highest
Temperature
(F) Warmest
Minimum
Temperature
(F) Coldest
Maximum
Temperature
(F) Average
Minimum
Temperature
(F) Average
Maximum
Temperature
(F) Mean
Temperature
(F) Total
Precipitation
(In) Total
Snowfall
(In) Max 24hr 1.50"
Precipitation
(In) Max 24hr 0.61"

2012 22 52 26 41 24.0 46.5 35.3 0.61 1.50 0.61 1.50

 

[Mitsana]

After listening many times, I thought he was on the mountain, but was not sure.

MR talks about flyers in Bayfield, but also being across from his house on the east side of the mountain. Are there any houses up there? Would he have been on Middle Mountain Road at that time with flyers?

Middle Mountain Road is on the west side of a mountain and pretty much directly overlooks MR's house (5 mi driving, 1 mile straight). If he is referring to the east side of the same mountain (sorta), you (only) need to drive south to the Vallecito Reservoir then back north (about 10 miles driving distance, 3 miles straight). If you drive all the way down to Bayfield then back north, then you can get to the east side of the ridge, in the San Juan National Park, about 50 miles total driving distance, maybe 10 miles straight. But I'm not sure which he is referring to.

 

[Foxfire]

That is incredibly horrific. NINETEEN FIREFIGHTERS DEAD. That's horrible.

Yes gitana1, very tragic.. The Granite Mountain Hotshots, are a specialist team of wildfire fighters based in Prescott, Arizona; an elite crew of firefighters just doing what they do..

 

[pinto]

interesting question., it wasn't snowing at the level of MR's home as I recall, but I wonder if it was snowing at the higher elevation at Middle Mountain in November. I do remember MR saying on Tricia's show that LE had mentioned to him that the gate (again don't know what elevation the gate is at) had been closed until recently.

I don't think so ... it was a warm fall and a late start to winter there. The forest service usually bases road closures more on conditions than on specific dates. So it was most likely accessible farther into December than usual.

 

[PPKik]

Middle Mountain Road is on the west side of a mountain and pretty much directly overlooks MR's house (5 mi driving, 1 mile straight). If he is referring to the east side of the same mountain (sorta), you (only) need to drive south to the Vallecito Reservoir then back north (about 10 miles driving distance, 3 miles straight). If you drive all the way down to Bayfield then back north, then you can get to the east side of the ridge, in the San Juan National Park, about 50 miles total driving distance, maybe 10 miles straight. But I'm not sure which he is referring to.

Exactly. In that interview he seems to be describing driving up there, but it also sounds like he was close to Bayfield. Can't be both.

 

[Lordeebee]

Thanks Foxfire! But the area Dylan was found was something like 3000 ft above MRs house, and I think his house is higher than Bayfield proper. Common sense tells me it was probably snowing big time way up there?

 

[pinto]

Thanks Foxfire! But the area Dylan was found was something like 3000 ft above MRs house, and I think his house is higher than Bayfield proper. Common sense tells me it was probably snowing big time way up there?

I wish I knew how to work that weather chart, it's good info. BUt it was quite dry until mid-December, as I remember. You can check the precip category for Bayfield and extrapolate, only 0.6 in. in the month of November, so even if the mtn road was higher, there just wasn't much of anything falling out of the sky at that point.

 

[Foxfire]

<comment respectfully sniped BM for focus>

I think we are narrowed to a possible sighting or cell phone pings. I think cell phone pings are more likely. Which I have stated in a few posts thus far. Which is the basis for why I think there that's what led LE to that specific, remote location in the middle of a darn huge mountain range.

gitana1. imo, although possible, it is doubtful that locating DR's remains were due to a sighting or pings. After the many cadaver k9 hits on Vallecito Lake in 11/2012, and a very thorough search without success. Seems, logic would dictate that DR's remains would be located upstream from the Lake, due to contamination of drainage runoff from Middle Mountain.

 

[pinto]

DR's remains were located in or near a drainage ditch on Middle Mountain. Guess, this would explain the cadaver K9 hits numerous times in the reservoir. Hindsight, huh?...

Map Link;
A Middle Mountain Road, Bayfield, CO
B Vallecito Lake, San Juan National Forest, Colorado

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...7,0.013797&oq=middle+mountain&mra=ls&t=h&z=15

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/192113/abqnewsseeker/updated-reservoir-searched-for-dylan.html

Reservoir searched for Dylan

“We’re searching a specific area where we’ve had dog alerts,” Bender told the paper. “With the snow gone and the ice gone, we’re able to search that area.”

“We have had alerts by dogs numerous times from November up until now,” Bender said. “We have pursued all of those as detailed as we could, and none of them have proved positive.”

Since November, investigators have searched the reservoir area at least 15 times, using search dogs, divers, boats equipped with sonar, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, The Herald said.

Not necessarily ... CO has a lot of dry drainages -- most of them, these days, really. If you look at the precipitation in the months before November (thanks to the link provided earlier), you can see that there was less than 0.2 in. during the summer and fall. That is post 2012 runoff, so the extra drainages would be dry, mostly likely. I am not familiar with this particular one, so I'm not saying this is a fact, but it's more likely.

Now, the 2013 spring runoff could have done something, as I assume the drainage goes into Vallecito Creek, which does empty into the reservoir, so I could see getting a hit recently. But I don't even know if things would have been degraded too much? I am not a dog scent expert, by far.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Some interesting info. You have to do some looking, but the first link references the second link. The second link talks about the Vallecito Crags off of Middle Mountain Rd. The first link says there are two gates, the lower gate being .5 to .75 miles past the 5 mile marker. Picture of gate locations at third link.


http://www.mountainproject.com/v/durangotans-seasonal-road-closure-info/107562576#a_107562606

"Talked to the green pants over at the forest service and they said upper gate will stay closed until June 1st. Lower gate, May 1st. I believe mile marker #,5 as indicated in the "Getting There" section of the Vallecito Crag page, is between half and three quarters of a mile past the lower gate. "


http://www.mountainproject.com/v/vallecito-crags/106271543%5D%5Dhttp://www.mountainproject.com/v/vallecito-crags/106271543
"Drive up Middle Mountain road a little ways past the 5 mile marker and park at switchback."

Gate locations (look like dumbells-lower gate golden orange, upper gate black):
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107565481

 

[Foxfire]

I wish I knew how to work that weather chart, it's good info. BUt it was quite dry until mid-December, as I remember. You can check the precip category for Bayfield and extrapolate, only 0.6 in. in the month of November, so even if the mtn road was higher, there just wasn't much of anything falling out of the sky at that point.

Many mountain streams and drainage ditches are fed by above ground springs and serve a dual purpose for rainfall runoff. Many of these streams and ditches provide runoff year round regardless of precipitation or temperature..

 

[katydid23]

The locals had reported seeing Mark traveling alone up Middle Mountain trailhead several times. When talking to Tricia, Mark said he was searching up there, alone, and had gone up there quite a few times. IMO, THAT ^^^ is the clue that got LE interested in that area.

JMO

ETA: Even Mark himself admitted that he knew he was the top of the suspect list. Is it wise for a suspect to go searching alone in the potential crime scene area? I think LE was very curious about why he was so interested in that trail.

 

[Lordeebee]

The locals had reported seeing Mark traveling alone up Middle Mountain trailhead several times. When talking to Tricia, Mark said he was searching up there, alone, and had gone up there quite a few times. IMO, THAT ^^^ is the clue that got LE interested in that area.


Snipped for space and BBM

I think you're exactly right! My adrenaline really sped up when just transcribing this from Tricia's June 2 show:

MR:
"I've been up on Middle Mountain several times driving through there, trying to see if there's any particular area that kinda stands out to me. It's a road about 10 miles long up into the back country, so I mean it's very heavily wooded...there's a million little side cutoffs for ya know ATV type vehicles and motorcycles er hiking trails and things like that, so there's a lot of land here that we're talking about to cover...ya know nothin specifically jumps out at me and that but ya know there have been locations throughout...cuz right now you can only get so far up, um it wasn't until recently that I realized that they even had a gate up there, but at this point in the year there's still snow up there in the higher portion of this road, so they don't even have the gates open to be able to get up there. Now I do know in communicating with law enforcement that they've been up there and that's how I know this n that but ya know I don't know exactly where to look so I mean I get out and I can wander around and I can look and do whatever...but ya know the canine team...