2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

[2goldfish]

JB et al were on the HOT SEAT to provide evidence that would prove the body wasn't there until KC was in jail. Todd M. made statements in court that they had PROOF, not that they had statements or evidence....he said PROOF. The SA called him on it. IMO...JB et al filed this to stay out of hot water for the defense teams reckless statements and the SA is calling their bluff by saying, "Nope this doesn't count and you know it.". JB doesn't have any further info and he wants to cover his posterior and avoid being reprimanded. THE SA, has lost their patience and wants the nonsense and games to end.

It wasnt until I read your post when it hit me just how foolish JB&co are.

They want to operate under the notion that the state just wants to torment poor KC when the truth is most likely that the state genuinely wants JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE. if the defense actually had proof that KC is innocent, that the remains were moved when KC was in jail, the defense and state should both be busting their butts to figure out WHO WHAT HOW WHEN and rightly so! this was NEVER about tormenting KC, about having an easy mark, because the pretty mother of a pretty child is NEVER an easy mark in a murder case.

My respect for the defense team is something less than zero.

 

[BeanE]

Perhaps Henry Lee was never hired as an expert witness for trial?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/17/ng.01.html

GRACE: Dr. Lee, do you plan on looking at any other evidence in the case, such as the hair samples?

LEE: Not right now. My initial agreement was just to examine the car, to look at the car.

And O/T just for chuckles:

LEE: Here, that`s -- you know, I`m a scientist. I only can address some scientific issue. I cannot speculate. Decomposition, because the trunk -- don`t forget, I looked at not only the car. Also looked at the liner, the carpet. Also looked at the content of the material. And I don`t know anybody informed me or not -- there are a lot of garbage was collected. A lot of material was collected from the trunk.

GRACE: Like what?

LEE: Like what? Like food, like meat, like pizza box, like cheese, like ham, box (ph) of soda, and all different material in there. So basically, a lot of maggots and a lot of insects, all kind of material mixed together. So I cannot really elaborate too much on what I found because this is an active case. I cannot really reach a conclusion at this moment.

:floorlaugh:

For anyone who doesn't know, NO meat, pizza, cheese, ham, or any other food item was in the trunk. None.

 

[2goldfish]

If JB knew what was best for him and his client, he would have asked for a plea (life in prison over the dp). I don't know if they would have given KC that but it was worth a shot.....now I believe it is too late for that. I believe that she will be found guilty and given the dp. :croc:

I dont believe yet that JB is stupid. incompetent, yes, I dont believe he is stupid.


We have to remember that KC has to agree to anything that goes down. any motions filed, any plea considered, she has to agree. they are working for her. for all we know JB and all are daily begging her to tell the truth and take what comes.

Her, I might consider actually stupid.

 

[ohiogirl]

Bold mine.

So will Judge S. get to listen to the recording in order to rule on it?

IMO, no. The contents of the tape are not the issue, the act of recording is.

 

[BeanE]

I really think this may be a matter of not enough $$$ to pay the experts. I think they may have signed contracts, but ordinarily payment is not made until work is performed, and no work has been performed.

Except, of course, for Henry Lee's day with the trunk, which he claims he was not paid for:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/15/ng.01.html

GRACE: Back to Dr. Henry Lee, who, as you all know, is a famed forensic scientist on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, I`ve just got to ask you, you know, tot mom Casey Anthony was siphoning gasoline from her family`s car to fill up her own tank. How the heck are you getting paid? I`m sure you`re costing a pretty penny. Dr. Lee does not come cheap.

LEE: No, we did not get any pay for that and for -- I`ll say, you know, this country, as you know, everybody entitled a defense. And many forensic experts, we do pro bono cases and that`s our obligation to our profession. As an expert, we look at evidence, doesn`t matter inculpatory, exculpatory, we report (ph) as it is. I don`t think should be labeled as a defense expert going to just for defense. Many time, found more evidence, inculpatory evidence, than the police found. There -- you know, case history, case example, many time we`re allowed to work on the case together. Many of my cases, I let the defense expert observe. It`s nothing wrong.

GRACE: So Dr. Lee...

LEE: Nothing unusual.

GRACE: Dr. Lee, are you telling me that you are working on the case pro bono, for free?

LEE: Yes.

 

[BeanE]

'Expert' Kathy Reichs' role is to examine Caylee's skeleton and document her findings:

KING: I see.

Do you want to view the remains?

REICHS: That's going to be my primary role, Larry, is I'm going to look at that -- that little skeleton. Identification is not going to be an issue here, because that was done with DNA. But I'm going to look at that skeleton very carefully to see if there's anything -- any kind of trauma, anything that is going to give -- give me information that might have been missed by a pathologist. Because, really, the skeleton -- the expertise brought to bear primarily in that situation would be those of the anthropologist.

KING: Yes.

REICHS: So we just want to cover all our bases. And I'd like to take a look at it and document what I see.

I don't think she ever did this, did she? The second autopsy was conducted by Henry Lee and Werner Spitz. I wonder if they were paid for it.

Now Caylee has been cremated and if Reichs never performed the anthropological exam, it's too late.

I don't know if Lee or Spitz are considered anthropology experts.

ETA: Sorry. Forgot to include the link. Here it is:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/19/lkl.01.html

 

[BeanE]

The 'experts' as documented by Dave Lohr on Dec 12, 2008:

Dr. Henry Chang-Yu Lee
Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky
Dr. Kathy Reichs
Dr. Timothy Huntington
Dr. Werner Spitz

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/casey-anthony-1.html

This article is old - still includes Lenamon as one of the attorneys.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Perhaps Henry Lee was never hired as an expert witness for trial?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/17/ng.01.html

GRACE: Dr. Lee, do you plan on looking at any other evidence in the case, such as the hair samples?

LEE: Not right now. My initial agreement was just to examine the car, to look at the car.

And O/T just for chuckles:

LEE: Here, that`s -- you know, I`m a scientist. I only can address some scientific issue. I cannot speculate. Decomposition, because the trunk -- don`t forget, I looked at not only the car. Also looked at the liner, the carpet. Also looked at the content of the material. And I don`t know anybody informed me or not -- there are a lot of garbage was collected. A lot of material was collected from the trunk.

GRACE: Like what?

LEE: Like what? Like food, like meat, like pizza box, like cheese, like ham, box (ph) of soda, and all different material in there. So basically, a lot of maggots and a lot of insects, all kind of material mixed together. So I cannot really elaborate too much on what I found because this is an active case. I cannot really reach a conclusion at this moment.

:floorlaugh:

For anyone who doesn't know, NO meat, pizza, cheese, ham, or any other food item was in the trunk. None.

Well if he couldn't reach a decision that there was no decomp from a human in the car, Baez wouldn't want him on board anyways right?

 

[Themis]

You bring up a very good point! I wonder if the SA put a little stop to their big financial plan (to pay high end experts) with the filing of the motion concerning funding of the defense and now they are STUCK!

Or maybe this motion's phrasing just headed off a defense that the prosecution and LEOs would not let the defense experts examine the expert -- a post trial huge appeal essentially trying the change the focus of the current defendant as the bad guy to the prosecution team as the bad guys. Such a tactic has ruined more than one prosecutor's career because the mere allegation is so damaging even if it is not true. Subsequent employment or career opportunities would rather there is no history than something with even a scintilla of possibility that the prosecutor had done something wrong.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I dont believe yet that JB is stupid. incompetent, yes, I dont believe he is stupid.


We have to remember that KC has to agree to anything that goes down. any motions filed, any plea considered, she has to agree. they are working for her. for all we know JB and all are daily begging her to tell the truth and take what comes.

Her, I might consider actually stupid.

He is stupid like a fox.

 

[cleo612]

I wonder if there is a police and/or incident report from when JJ went to the police department to tell them about having taped his meeting with JB.

If so, I would be VERY interested in reading the statement(s) that were made in the filing of any such report.

 

[Kentjbkent]

jmo....buy why would they want to be invovled anymore after jb announced they are computer illerate and lets face it most people these days worth anything know what is out there on computers and know their way around one...how embarrasing would that comment be amongst others????? hope this made some sense...:angel:

I agree, and since the defense team seems to like to hammer home the point that they believe all the evidence relates to "junk science"....


isn't that akin to the defense calling ANY EXPERT for EITHER side "JUNK SCIENTISTS"???!!!

 

[Kentjbkent]

'Expert' Kathy Reichs' role is to examine Caylee's skeleton and document her findings:

KING: I see.

Do you want to view the remains?

REICHS: That's going to be my primary role, Larry, is I'm going to look at that -- that little skeleton. Identification is not going to be an issue here, because that was done with DNA. But I'm going to look at that skeleton very carefully to see if there's anything -- any kind of trauma, anything that is going to give -- give me information that might have been missed by a pathologist. Because, really, the skeleton -- the expertise brought to bear primarily in that situation would be those of the anthropologist.

KING: Yes.

REICHS: So we just want to cover all our bases. And I'd like to take a look at it and document what I see.

I don't think she ever did this, did she? The second autopsy was conducted by Henry Lee and Werner Spitz. I wonder if they were paid for it.

Now Caylee has been cremated and if Reichs never performed the anthropological exam, it's too late.

I don't know if Lee or Spitz are considered anthropology experts.

Not sure when this King episode aired, but am assuming that Kathy R never actually got around to examining the skeleton since LDB motion states that no expert has requested at any point to view evidence (with the exception of Dr Lee car incident).

Is it possible that CA/GA gave Kathy R permission to view and test the skeleton when the remains were turned over to the Anthony's (for burial/cremation, etc services...)?

 

[BeanE]

Is it possible that CA/GA gave Kathy R permission to view and test the skeleton when the remains were turned over to the Anthony's (for burial/cremation, etc services...)?

That's an interesting thought. That could be.

 

[2goldfish]

He is stupid like a fox.

fascinating you say so, that was my original thought about him and her BOTH as I was posting. ITA.

 

[hroark2112]

Regarding recording of conversations...

I have always been under the impression that you can record a conversation provided you have the express permission of at least one party, or a court order. Seems to me that recording your own conversation would be legal. It might not be admissible in a court of law, but I thought it was not ILLEGAL to record your own phone calls.

I could be wrong, maybe I watch too much Law & Order...

 

[Searchfortruth]

Well if he couldn't reach a decision that there was no decomp from a human in the car, Baez wouldn't want him on board anyways right?

I was just thinking, that would have been the first time Jose actually smelled the odor in the trunk...wonder what he thought of that smell ?

 

[Searchfortruth]

Regarding recording of conversations...

I have always been under the impression that you can record a conversation provided you have the express permission of at least one party, or a court order. Seems to me that recording your own conversation would be legal. It might not be admissible in a court of law, but I thought it was not ILLEGAL to record your own phone calls.

I could be wrong, maybe I watch too much Law & Order...

I think it varies from state to state. Found a site that explains some of it and breaks it down state by state....

Here's an example of Washington state and their taping laws, which I found interesting...

"Washington requires the consent of all parties. Some companies manage to work around that by going to the Indian reservations or any federally owned property to make the call - Federal law is a one party consent."

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-rec...Recording Telephone Calls In Different States

 

[BeanE]

Richard Hornsby posted a comment regarding the JJ situation for anyone who may have missed it:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4545824&postcount=400"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Legal Q&A for Rhornsby #2[/ame]

 

[The World According]

jmo....buy why would they want to be invovled anymore after jb announced they are computer illerate and lets face it most people these days worth anything know what is out there on computers and know their way around one...how embarrasing would that comment be amongst others????? hope this made some sense...:angel:

Yes , it does. "Our experts are beyond the age of technology": Jose Baez
Who among us believes that these world reknown experts, Dr Lee, Dr. Baden, et al, are not up with current technology? What in the world does Beaz think he is doing standing up in open court making these highly sought after , very expensive, experts in their field out to be not capable of understanding modern technology? Why didn't he just say that the restraints of not being able to print the photos makes side by side comparisons impossible, or something to that effect? Why ridicule the team?. Good Lord, you just can't make this stuff up. If you were instructing new law students of what not to do..........you would have hit the jackpot with his behavior in this case , his poorly prepared documents, my favorite is his confidential agreement with Leonard, Tracy and Dick, letting Todd stand up in open court and say that the defense has proof that the body was placed there after Casey went to jail, nearly each and every one of the pleadings is legally flawed, he can't even behave in a depostion, and please don't get me started on all of his TV appearances, in some of which he admits that his client lied. Do any of you think that she is going to ever get an appeal based on ineffective counsel? I am not asking to be a smart alec, I am seriously asking.
Who is Jose Baez?"

http://www.wesh.com/news/17030505/detail.html

http://www.baezlawfirm.com/