2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

[Just Jayla]

Here's a question, and I hope it's not too stupid, but I'm wondering about defense experts examining the remains, the car, etc.

Do defense experts have to follow some sort of chain-of-custody protocol or documentation? Is that why the SA knows that the experts haven't looked at stuff? I mean, once G & C had formal custody of the remains, could defense experts just come to wherever and look at the remains and make official findings? Seems weird to me.

I don't think the state would know whether there was proper chain of custody by the defense or not, because the defense has yet to provide the state with any discovery/documentation.

 

[Harmony 2]

Dr. Baden at timestamp 2:00

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40WGWqOTDk[/ame]

 

[mitzi]

Perhaps Henry Lee was never hired as an expert witness for trial?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/17/ng.01.html

GRACE: Dr. Lee, do you plan on looking at any other evidence in the case, such as the hair samples?

LEE: Not right now. My initial agreement was just to examine the car, to look at the car.

And O/T just for chuckles:

LEE: Here, that`s -- you know, I`m a scientist. I only can address some scientific issue. I cannot speculate. Decomposition, because the trunk -- don`t forget, I looked at not only the car. Also looked at the liner, the carpet. Also looked at the content of the material. And I don`t know anybody informed me or not -- there are a lot of garbage was collected. A lot of material was collected from the trunk.

GRACE: Like what?

LEE: Like what? Like food, like meat, like pizza box, like cheese, like ham, box (ph) of soda, and all different material in there. So basically, a lot of maggots and a lot of insects, all kind of material mixed together. So I cannot really elaborate too much on what I found because this is an active case. I cannot really reach a conclusion at this moment.

:floorlaugh:

For anyone who doesn't know, NO meat, pizza, cheese, ham, or any other food item was in the trunk. None.

I remember watching that on NG, and thinking, WOW, Henry Lee just lied! Then I googled him and found out it was nothing new.

 

[cyberborg]

IIRC, a Michigan forensic pathologist (who was the father of a younger pathologist on NG) went down shortly after Christmas to examine the remains. I don't remember what episode his son mentioned this on, but it was on or around this past January because NG was making a big deal about how unsecured the remains seemed to be in that strip mall funeral home.

I've mentioned this before here, and can't verify it's true, but it always made sense to me. A female was on a another blog last year between Christmas and New Years and she said she worked in the funeral home and that the remains had already been released. She said she couldn't give a lot of info because her boss would fire her, but that the remains had already been examined and were not cremated. She said if the remains of small children are skeletonized, they are often just pulverized. She gave some additional info that made me think she was legit and was very polite, but she was attacked so badly by the other posters that she just left the board. I couldn't think of a reason she would make that up; it just made sense for some reason. This was before the NG episode, when everyone was wondering when the second "autopsy" was going to occur, so the pathologist above actually verified her story. I don't know if it's true, but it makes more sense than a lot of the speculation that swirled around the story. And it certainly explains why security didn't need to be high if the remains had already been released. I also remember that JB and the Anthony family were strangely quiet about whether the remains had or had not been released formally.

I remember that too, wasn't BC caught out on some mis-statements about the remains as to the autopsy/cremation timing and JB was implying they were still waiting to do an autopsy when rumor suggested it was done. A lot of un-necessary games at that time.

 

[mitzi]

I was just thinking, that would have been the first time Jose actually smelled the odor in the trunk...wonder what he thought of that smell ?

Maybe that's when Jose had his tum-tum pains and went to the hospital....j/k

 

[Imbackon]

Since you are talking about Dr. Lee, just for kicks, some time in the last year when I heard the bs about the food causing the stink in the car, I wrote him an email on a website that claimed it was his (can't remember name but google should find it).
The jist of my email was to tell him that he should not spoil what credibility he has left to work on defending this woman, because long after he is gone, this is what people will remember.
Maybe he took my advice, ya think?

 

[Just Jayla]

Since you are talking about Dr. Lee, just for kicks, some time in the last year when I heard the bs about the food causing the stink in the car, I wrote him an email on a website that claimed it was his (can't remember name but google should find it).
The jist of my email was to tell him that he should not spoil what credibility he has left to work on defending this woman, because long after he is gone, this is what people will remember.
Maybe he took my advice, ya think?

Perhaps he did! That, and maybe he never got his paycheck for the first go-round.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I remember watching that on NG, and thinking, WOW, Henry Lee just lied! Then I googled him and found out it was nothing new.

I don't understand how he has ANY credibility now.

 

[The World According]

VERY interesting motions... Must reads.

2nd Motion to Provide Reciprocal Discovery
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21913703/detail.html

The Defense apparently refused to provide info for the witnesses against Kronk.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
5. Neither motion was filed with a list of the names and addresses of witnesses as required by Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.220(d)(1)(A). Instead, upon inquiry, the undersigned was informed initially via email from Andrea Lyon on Friday, November 20, 2009 that the "potential witnesses should be obvious from the filing", and then ultimately an email was received from Jose Baez on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 with "witness
contact information" listing lawyers for Crystal & Brandon Sparks (in Washington DC), Jill Kerley (in Knoxville, TN), and Laura Buchanan (in Woodbridge, NJ). At that point, the undersigned made a specific request for a formal witness list with current addresses as required by the Rule and was advised that the defense feels they have no "further obligation to file anything" and" ... the witnesses do not want the media harassing them in
the meantime."
<<<<<<<<<<<<

Protective Order Regarding Recording Of Interview with JJ
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21913645/detail.html

"WHEREFORE, since disclosure of said illegally recorded statement to any party would constitute a felony of the third degree, the State of Florida respectfully requests that this Honorable Court issue a protective order exempting said statement from release under Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.220."

Is there any update on this, since the judge ruled, or still silence and no witness list from the defense?

 

[Muzikman]

Is there any update on this, since the judge ruled, or still silence and no witness list from the defense?

Deafening silence. :waitasec:

 

[The World According]

Deafening silence. :waitasec:

Thank you Muzikman. Merry Christmas to you my friend. May you land the job of your dreams straight away in 2010. Any company will be very fortunate to have a bright mind and the dedication that you bring. I'd hire you tomorrow if you were in my field. TOMORROW! LOL!

Thanks for all of your tireless work here. You make Websleuths.

 

[BeanE]

*Very* interesting comment from Richard Hornsby on his blog in regards to the experts:


Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion &#8211; and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don&#8217;t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this &#8220;pro bono&#8221; the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case &#8211; books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides&#8217; expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora&#8217;s Financial Box for Mr. Baez.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/12/28/attorney-of-record-in-record-time/#comments

The defense sure has gotten themselves in a pickle, haven't they?

 

[The World According]

*Very* interesting comment from Richard Hornsby on his blog in regards to the experts:


Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion &#8211; and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don&#8217;t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this &#8220;pro bono&#8221; the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case &#8211; books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides&#8217; expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora&#8217;s Financial Box for Mr. Baez.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/12/28/attorney-of-record-in-record-time/#comments

The defense sure has gotten themselves in a pickle, haven't they?

It is just as we all predicted. Priceless! I sat on a jury once and literally the lady behind me gasped out loud when one of the experts answered how much they had been paid, it was over 40K!. Needless to say, that psychologists opinion was wasted on us, at least it was on me, and I can safely presume the lady behind me, considered him a hired gun and gave his testimony no weight. In fact, it was offensive, imo. Mr. Hornsby has taken a keen interest in this case. The defense benefits from the local lawyers opining. Mr. Hornsby enjoys having some of our members post on his blog, very much. I trust.

 

[TexasLil]

*Very* interesting comment from Richard Hornsby on his blog in regards to the experts:


Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion – and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don’t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this “pro bono” the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case – books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides’ expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora’s Financial Box for Mr. Baez.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/12/28/attorney-of-record-in-record-time/#comments

The defense sure has gotten themselves in a pickle, haven't they?

Granted it presents huge issues for Baez. But, under the rules of criminal procedure isn't the court required to order Baez to produce the discovery as requested? The motion was filed 12/9 and still no orders either way.

 

[Novice Seeker]

I didn't realize that that one short exam of the trunk by Henry Lee is the only evidence exam the defense has done. Wth is going on??

Certainly the defendant can choose to not review the evidence...

That's a novel approach...

Silly goose, that's Baez law 101
:floorlaugh:

Novice Seeker

 

[magic-cat]

There was a farm boy in law school
And Baez was his namo :loser:
J.- B-a-e-z
and Baez was his namo.

He flunked the bar repeatedly
Til finally he passed it :woohoo:
and Baez was his namo...



What a joke this man is, and a mockery of all that an attorney is SUPPOSED to represent. :banghead:

 

[Novice Seeker]

How true you are. What baffles me is why attorneys, especially in Florida, don't recognize the damage Baez is causing to their profession. Instead, he's going into the classroom to teach future attorneys. Go figure...:waitasec:

Novice Seeker

 

[The World According]

Do we know if they finally filed their witness list? If Henry Lee is not on there, it will be priceless.

 

[marspiter]

Don't forget Kobi. He was once a witness for the defense as well. For all these high profile experts the defense had early on they sure do seem to be rather absent from this case since the discovery of the body.

 

[joypath]

Here's a tiny secret regarding expert witnesses and the procuring of said persons: once the specialist has been placed a retainer or a contract, he or she is locked up to that party and is unavailable to the other side!....THAT's how ya try to "scoop up the big names", remember the Spector case?...Lee was on a plane THAT NIGHT~