Amphetamines

[Goody]

I never said Darlie was taking Phen-Fen, Goody did. Nor did I say it was taken off the market. Goody did.

I don't think Laura was posting this to YOU,beesy. She was either responding to my post or to all of us in general. Give her a break. You sound so confrontational.

I did however say that Darlie tested positive for amphetamines in the ER. It doesn't matter what freaking brand she was taking for Christ's sake. She tested positive for amphetamines. The end, period!

No, not the end period. If the meds she was taking produce a false positive for amphetamines, it would mean A LOT. I don't know if that is the case but Laura obviously has some training in this field and can speak knowledgable on it.

PhenFen IS a big deal, in that it is a very strong diet pill that should only be given to obese people, and then under strict supervision. Not only was Darlie not obese but she was obviously not being properly supervised on it or she wouldn't have been taking it so long.

Darlie clearly fits the profiles of a narcissistic and histrionics personality disorder.

Wrong. She fits the profiles of what Cami posted and those are very, very general. And then she only fits it because one or two people say she did this once or that once. We have no proof of any patterns in her behavior, just a couple of what appear to be isolated incidents that MIGHT be part of an unknown pattern. Hardly enough evidence to diagnose her with personality disorders, esp since we have no training in the field. I think we need more evidence before we start jumping to conclusions.

She admits to having PPD.

No, she doesn't. She admits to having the "baby blues," which is typically a mild depression that lasts about a month after childbirth. Drake was 8 months old, I think at the time of the murders. She obviously did not have "baby blues."

Research shows that long-term use beyond what is recommended by the FDA can cause psychosis in extreme cases. It's also possible for someone to have a psychotic break and then return to normal(that person's normal self that is)

No evidence of that in this case.

 

[cami]

I think it is the combination of things that may have created the monster, not just the diet pills. You have a depressed person, maybe suffering from PPD on top of her normal depression (which I think she probably had from childhood), money pressures on top of that, difficulties with active children, difficulties with husband, much of which probably stemmed from money issues, and these diet pills interfering with her sleeping habits, resulting in rubbing her emotions and nerves raw. In that way, I think the diet pills might have played a role here.

Phenfen is back on the market, I think. At one point,it was taken off the market because it caused heart disease in some people. People died from it. There is no official record that it caused anyone to kill though. Paxil and Xanax, etc. do have some reported cases of such things, but I couldn't find a thing on Phenfen. However, occassionally someone pops up who has taken it and tells horror stories about what it did to them emotionally, so I think Darlie could have had a strong defense if she had only told the truth about what happened. That is assuming, of course, that she was taking the pills regularly and that they did indeed play a significant role here. Because we don't know exactly what happened in the days preceding the crime, we can't know if the diet pills pushed her over the edge or if something else is at the bottom of this.

Agreed, I never thought it was just the diet pills, but them in combination with her depression and the other things you mentioned--money stresses, failing marriage but I don't think it went to psychosis in Darlie. They appear to me to be mitigating factors for life in prison instead of the death penalty. Or even manslaugher instead of murder.

Darlie killed her own boys for reasons only she knows. Like I said maybe she just wanted rid of them. I don't believe the diet pills drove her to do it, but they aided in the aggression and perhaps impulse control.

I see Andrea Yates new trial is underway is it? Not guilty by reason of insanity is her plea.

 

[cami]

It is a central nervous stimulant, and comes in tablets which are higher dosage but shorter acting and time release capsules, which are more dangerous because they can be either punctured or pulled apart for an immediate rush.

And that's what makes them dangerous, the depressing of the central nervous system. It rips away that mental barrier in the brain that keeps aggression at bay.

 

[beesy]

I don't think Laura was posting this to YOU,beesy. She was either responding to my post or to all of us in general. Give her a break. You sound so confrontational.

It was to us in general so I was making sure nobody thought I said that.

No, not the end period. If the meds she was taking produce a false positive for amphetamines, it would mean A LOT. I don't know if that is the case but Laura obviously has some training in this field and can speak knowledgable on it

What exactly would it mean? A false positive for a drug which mimics amphetamines to a certain degree. That's all it would mean. A drug which when abused can also be very dangerous. So where does the A LOT come in? Two different drugs, both dangerous. Phen less than a true amphetamine, but still dangerous. The side effects for long-term users are similar.

PhenFen IS a big deal, in that it is a very strong diet pill that should only be given to obese people, and then under strict supervision. Not only was Darlie not obese but she was obviously not being properly supervised on it or she wouldn't have been taking it so long.

I know it's a big deal, but it's not an amphetamine. I was saying that there are different brand names of amphetamines and as long as it is a true amphetamine and has nothing else in it, then the brand doesn't matter. And it doesn't. When did I say Phen-Fen is not a big deal?

Wrong. She fits the profiles of what Cami posted and those are very, very general. And then she only fits it because one or two people say she did this once or that once. We have no proof of any patterns in her behavior, just a couple of what appear to be isolated incidents that MIGHT be part of an unknown pattern. Hardly enough evidence to diagnose her with personality disorders, esp since we have no training in the field. I think we need more evidence before we start jumping to conclusions

Well, cami posted the correct profiles. I've seen it other places too. You don't need to have every single symptom to have either one of those disorders. I am not taking just a few stories either. Some of it is straight out of her mouth

No, she doesn't. She admits to having the "baby blues," which is typically a mild depression that lasts about a month after childbirth. Drake was 8 months old, I think at the time of the murders. She obviously did not have "baby blues.

Honey, I'm sorry, but I don't think your Darlie even knew what PPD was. My guess is she called it "baby blues" because she knew nothing else to call it. PPD has not always been so talked about as it is now.

No evidence of that in this case

Did I say there was? Let me look, no I did not! I said it can happen and it can!

 

[beesy]

Agreed, I never thought it was just the diet pills, but them in combination with her depression and the other things you mentioned--money stresses, failing marriage but I don't think it went to psychosis in Darlie. They appear to me to be mitigating factors for life in prison instead of the death penalty. Or even manslaugher instead of murder.

That's what I think. Her defense team could have latched onto that and run with it, but Darlie said "I didn't do it".

Darlie killed her own boys for reasons only she knows. Like I said maybe she just wanted rid of them. I don't believe the diet pills drove her to do it, but they aided in the aggression and perhaps impulse control

Right, I think they caused her to be cranky, perhaps a little paranoid, have aggression and to lose some of her impulse control.

 

[Goody]

Agreed, I never thought it was just the diet pills, but them in combination with her depression and the other things you mentioned--money stresses, failing marriage but I don't think it went to psychosis in Darlie. They appear to me to be mitigating factors for life in prison instead of the death penalty. Or even manslaugher instead of murder.

Darlie killed her own boys for reasons only she knows. Like I said maybe she just wanted rid of them. I don't believe the diet pills drove her to do it, but they aided in the aggression and perhaps impulse control.

I agree, but keep in mind that my theory on this is contingent on the proof (if we ever find it) that Devon's death was an impulsive act bred out of anger or frustration. If we learn that she planned the murders in advance, the whole diet pill/emotional dysfunction/stressors are out of the picture. So much still depends on the WHY.

I see Andrea Yates new trial is underway is it? Not guilty by reason of insanity is her plea.

It is? Couldn't tell it by Court TV. They are all wrapped up in the Supreme Court Nomination Congressional Hearings. Not Goody's cup of tea. I will watch a little of it now and then, but can't digest a whole day let alone a whole week or more of their jibber jabber.

 

[Thinkoflaura]

[/b][/color]

I don't think Laura was posting this to YOU,beesy. She was either responding to my post or to all of us in general. Give her a break. You sound so confrontational.

[/b]

No, not the end period. If the meds she was taking produce a false positive for amphetamines, it would mean A LOT. I don't know if that is the case but Laura obviously has some training in this field and can speak knowledgable on it.

PhenFen IS a big deal, in that it is a very strong diet pill that should only be given to obese people, and then under strict supervision. Not only was Darlie not obese but she was obviously not being properly supervised on it or she wouldn't have been taking it so long.

[/b]

Wrong. She fits the profiles of what Cami posted and those are very, very general. And then she only fits it because one or two people say she did this once or that once. We have no proof of any patterns in her behavior, just a couple of what appear to be isolated incidents that MIGHT be part of an unknown pattern. Hardly enough evidence to diagnose her with personality disorders, esp since we have no training in the field. I think we need more evidence before we start jumping to conclusions.

[/b]

No, she doesn't. She admits to having the "baby blues," which is typically a mild depression that lasts about a month after childbirth. Drake was 8 months old, I think at the time of the murders. She obviously did not have "baby blues."

[/b]

No evidence of that in this case.

Thank you, Goody. You did a very good job of saying exactly what I tried to.
I am not used to having every word examined 3 times from every perspective.. I was stating the facts about Phen- Fen in general, and that they are not true Amphetamines, but may cause a false positive drug test.
A specific assay would show the difference.

Thanks, honey, and best to all. I mean no harm or distress to anyone. Just trying to state the facts so that all can understand.

Phentermine is USUALLY safe in a healthy person who has regular medical monitoring by a physician, if the person is honest about their emotional status. It has been on the market for a very long time and has remained safe and effective for short term, medically supervised use for small amounts weight loss IF the person chooses this route over safer dietary changes and sustained regular exercise.

(For the record, I had posted a post in the Parking Lot on dieting and exercise a week or so ago when a poster asked if any of us had tried Nutrisystem or Jenny Craig foods. This is the thread: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34121

This is my post on how I view weight loss/ control for life:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=925104&postcount=51

Also, I would like to point out the obvious: Safety is relative... I asked my cardiologist if I should take a baby aspirin to prevent heart disease, since it is the number one killer of women now. His answer was that at my young age I was more likely to have a brain bleed from the Aspirin following a head bump during my regular vigorous exercise than to receive beneficial heart protection. In other words, he nixed the Aspirin because he believed the risk outweighed the benefits.
EVERYTHING is relative.

Obesity, even 10% above normal body weight, is a risk factor for many chronic diseases.. all drugs have risks, even baby aspirin. Did Darlie need either Fen or Phen? Only she and her doctor could make that decision. She decided to take them, which is her right, although I wouldn't have. Unless she ordered the drugs over the Internet without a doctor's hands on exam and monitoring, then she did not violate any laws or rules.

About the underlying mental disorders being exacerbated by the medication or combo of medications no longer available : This comes from the product literature for Phentermine which is available on the PDR online, not related to Darlie or anyone else specifically.
I am trying to be as concise as possible with the general prescribing/ patient information available, but as my info was not specific to anything other than the medication mentioned by some posters as being what Darlie was prescribed following Drake's birth. That is what I was addressing in part. I'm not trained to determine the emotional effects on a particular person while therapeutic blood levels of the drugs were present.


Thanks again, Goody, and thank you for reading my post.
I appreciate it.

 

[beesy]

Thank you, Goody. You did a very good job of saying exactly what I tried to.
I am not used to having every word examined 3 times from every perspective.. I was stating the facts about Phen- Fen in general, and that they are not true Amphetamines, but may cause a false positive drug test.
A specific assay would show the difference.

Thanks, honey, and best to all. I mean no harm or distress to anyone. Just trying to state the facts so that all can understand.

Phentermine is USUALLY safe in a healthy person who has regular medical monitoring by a physician, if the person is honest about their emotional status. It has been on the market for a very long time and has remained safe and effective for short term, medically supervised use for small amounts weight loss IF the person chooses this route over safer dietary changes and sustained regular exercise.

(For the record, I had posted a post in the Parking Lot on dieting and exercise a week or so ago when a poster asked if any of us had tried Nutrisystem or Jenny Craig foods. This is the thread: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34121

This is my post on how I view weight loss/ control for life:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=925104&postcount=51

Also, I would like to point out the obvious: Safety is relative... I asked my cardiologist if I should take a baby aspirin to prevent heart disease, since it is the number one killer of women now. His answer was that at my young age I was more likely to have a brain bleed from the Aspirin following a head bump during my regular vigorous exercise than to receive beneficial heart protection. In other words, he nixed the Aspirin because he believed the risk outweighed the benefits.
EVERYTHING is relative.

Obesity, even 10% above normal body weight, is a risk factor for many chronic diseases.. all drugs have risks, even baby aspirin. Did Darlie need either Fen or Phen? Only she and her doctor could make that decision. She decided to take them, which is her right, although I wouldn't have. Unless she ordered the drugs over the Internet without a doctor's hands on exam and monitoring, then she did not violate any laws or rules.

About the underlying mental disorders being exacerbated by the medication or combo of medications no longer available : This comes from the product literature for Phentermine which is available on the PDR online, not related to Darlie or anyone else specifically.
I am trying to be as concise as possible with the general prescribing/ patient information available, but as my info was not specific to anything other than the medication mentioned by some posters as being what Darlie was prescribed following Drake's birth. That is what I was addressing in part. I'm not trained to determine the emotional effects on a particular person while therapeutic blood levels of the drugs were present.


Thanks again, Goody, and thank you for reading my post.
I appreciate it.

I am sorry that I upset you, love :blowkiss: I am not picking your every word apart. But, as you said, there is a difference between Phen-Fen and true amphetamines, which is what I have been talking about. I had to get my magnifying glass out to take a harder look at the report. It says "positive due to Phentermine". No mention of the Fen. I still can't see any levels though. Do you know what would be a theraputic level for Darlie? We still need to take into conideration that she was taking the drug longer than she should have been. She was not emotionally stable. Almost to the day just one month before the murders Darlie claims she took all of the OTC sleeping pills out of a bottle and unwrapped them. Darin caught her and then she says she felt ok. She tells this story. She also wrote it in her diary. More evidence for histrionic peronality disorder. Darlie wears a sign and it says "LOOK AT ME". When that doesn't work, there are always more extreme things to do. If she were really suicidal she would have found a way to kill herself.

 

[Thinkoflaura]

I am sorry that I upset you, love :blowkiss: I am not picking your every word apart. But, as you said, there is a difference between Phen-Fen and true amphetamines, which is what I have been talking about. I had to get my magnifying glass out to take a harder look at the report. It says "positive due to Phentermine". No mention of the Fen. I still can't see any levels though. Do you know what would be a theraputic level for Darlie? We still need to take into conideration that she was taking the drug longer than she should have been. She was not emotionally stable. Almost to the day just one month before the murders Darlie claims she took all of the OTC sleeping pills out of a bottle and unwrapped them. Darin caught her and then she says she felt ok. She tells this story. She also wrote it in her diary. More evidence for histrionic peronality disorder. Darlie wears a sign and it says "LOOK AT ME". When that doesn't work, there are always more extreme things to do. If she were really suicidal she would have found a way to kill herself.

Hi,
I'm not upset. Haven't been, just a bit frustrated, LOL.

About the blood levels: The usual dosage of Phentermine is between 20 and 40 mg per day. Depending upon whether she was buying the time release capsules, taking one per day or a smaller dose twice a day, and the time interval between the last pill taken, last meal ingested, etc would make a difference as to the quantitative serum assay.

One should not expect to see a level above 40 mg in the absence of either renal or hepatic insufficiency if a steady state blood level exists with Phentermine as I expect it does.

About the OTC sleeping pills: I had not read that before and have mixed feelings about it. I think that every suicidal gesture is abnormal and is a cry for help for some kind of emotional need or pain. None of us really have the ability to know what another person is feeling at any moment...
I went to a psychiatrist once for a particular issue I needed to discuss with a therapist. We became close friends over time. He committed suicide. It taught me that anyone can snap, and if they are the kind of person who turns their anger inwards, an impulsive gesture can kill. Dead's dead, there's no second chance.

BTW, I think it would be incredibly hard to kill ones self with either OTC sleeping pills or most RX sleeping pills now, as most RX drugs commonly prescribed now are not Schedule drugs. The most common OTC medication which can do irreversable harm to the liver, and can easily kill in an overdose ( 1 whole bottle taken at one time) is Acetamenephen ( Tylenol).

 

[beesy]

Hi,
I'm not upset. Haven't been, just a bit frustrated, LOL.

Glad you're not upset, sorry you're frustrated.

About the blood levels: The usual dosage of Phentermine is between 20 and 40 mg per day. Depending upon whether she was buying the time release capsules, taking one per day or a smaller dose twice a day, and the time interval between the last pill taken, last meal ingested, etc would make a difference as to the quantitative serum assay.
One should not expect to see a level above 40 mg in the absence of either renal or hepatic insufficiency if a steady state blood level exists with Phentermine as I expect it does

I think I'm going to try scanning the picture. There does seem to be a number beside the positive. It's so small though. I could barely see the drug name

About the OTC sleeping pills: I had not read that before and have mixed feelings about it. I think that every suicidal gesture is abnormal and is a cry for help for some kind of emotional need or pain. None of us really have the ability to know what another person is feeling at any moment

The near-suicide "attempt" story is fairly common knowledge. She might be making it up though. Never know with her, but she did tell and write about it. Either way, making it up or really doing it, like you said, is abnormal. Maybe even more so if she made it up. It seems to me she was trying to get attention. Again, either way, it's not normal behavior. I think it is important since it happened so close to the murders.

I went to a psychiatrist once for a particular issue I needed to discuss with a therapist. We became close friends over time. He committed suicide. It taught me that anyone can snap, and if they are the kind of person who turns their anger inwards, an impulsive gesture can kill. Dead's dead, there's no second chance

I'm sorry about your friend. Dead is dead, whether you kill yourself or kill another.

BTW, I think it would be incredibly hard to kill ones self with either OTC sleeping pills or most RX sleeping pills now, as most RX drugs commonly prescribed now are not Schedule drugs. The most common OTC medication which can do irreversable harm to the liver, and can easily kill in an overdose ( 1 whole bottle taken at one time) is Acetamenephen ( Tylenol)

What about Benedryl? Does Tylenol kill you when you take them or just as time goes by your system eventually crashes?

 

[cami]

I agree, but keep in mind that my theory on this is contingent on the proof (if we ever find it) that Devon's death was an impulsive act bred out of anger or frustration. If we learn that she planned the murders in advance, the whole diet pill/emotional dysfunction/stressors are out of the picture. So much still depends on the WHY. [/color]

Well I don't understand what your theory is anymore Goody, LOL, I tend to bypass those long long posts. You've dismissed just about everything the posters here have come up with for reasons why she might have done it. Yes, the diet pills may have hindered her impulse control. Something did or she just wanted rid of them so that's why she killed them. That's my new theory.

I wish you luck in finding the why but I doubt you will unless Darlie tells you and she ain't talking or she wouldn't be on DR. She'll take the secrets to her grave I believe.

 

[Thinkoflaura]

Glad you're not upset, sorry you're frustrated.


I think I'm going to try scanning the picture. There does seem to be a number beside the positive. It's so small though. I could barely see the drug name
The near-suicide "attempt" story is fairly common knowledge. She might be making it up though. Never know with her, but she did tell and write about it. Either way, making it up or really doing it, like you said, is abnormal. Maybe even more so if she made it up. It seems to me she was trying to get attention. Again, either way, it's not normal behavior. I think it is important since it happened so close to the murders.

I'm sorry about your friend. Dead is dead, whether you kill yourself or kill another.
What about Benedryl? Does Tylenol kill you when you take them or just as time goes by your system eventually crashes?

Hi, Beesy,
About overdoses and death: SOME drugs taken in large quantities, especially in combination with alcohol will kill through respiratory failure and cardiac arrest. Almost all narcotics, including synthetic derivatives fall into the primary overdose category. The SR ( sustained release) drugs are especially dangerous as some people still do not understand that one pill is all they can safely take in 12 hours or 24 hours.. The pain relief is maintained through taking the medication without lapses so there is not breakthrough pain. Also, with these newer chronic pain relief medications, a pill taken at 8 PM will have peak activity 8-10 hours later. People are not used to this concept, and often accidentally overdose by taking another dose too soon. Usually, they recover without treatment, but will be hypersedated for 24 hours or so.

Anti-anxiety drugs of the benzodiazapine type may or may not cause lethal effects. Some are very short acting.. it is almost impossible for a healthy adult to kill one's self with a 30 day supply of Xanax, for example, because a healthy liver metabolizes it so fast.
This is not true of the longer acting benzodiazapines such as Clonazapam.
Alcohol makes every sedative drug more potent, in fact the term the reaction caused from mixing them is called potentiation. Drinking and taking any type of sedative can kill.

Tyenol ( Acetomenophen) overdosage kills in a much different way. The person doesn't just " go to sleep", they experience sudden, acute, fulminant liver damage and very often, death. This is because Acetomenophen is metabolized by the liver very slowly and has a high hepatatic toxicity rate at relatively low doses.
Sometimes people have combined two cold medications containing Acetomenophen and have ended up with permanently damaged livers because they took too much. It is particularly dangerous for children, of course, and we know not to give our kids Aspirin because of Reyes' Syndrome...
There is a specific drug which binds to and helps the kidneys excrete Acetomenophin without liver damage. I don't know much about it but that it was discovered accidentally a few years ago and works well if the person receives emergency treatment and diagnosis promptly and then receives the proper dose of the antidote over a period of days.

It stands to reason that heart medications, blood pressure medicines, etc will kill if taken in deliberate massive overdoses. The cause of death will be from organ failure from the body system acted upon by the therapeutic agent.

 

[beesy]

I agree, but keep in mind that my theory on this is contingent on the proof (if we ever find it) that Devon's death was an impulsive act bred out of anger or frustration. If we learn that she planned the murders in advance, the whole diet pill/emotional dysfunction/stressors are out of the picture. So much still depends on the WHY

I have to agree with cami here Goody. So many of us, you included, have come up with some very good theories. I don't think we'll ever find proof. Even if she confesses, she'll never tell the entire thing, especially if it was pre-meditated. At some point you just have to say, "she killed her boys and that's that".

 

[beesy]

Hi, Beesy,
About overdoses and death: SOME drugs taken in large quantities, especially in combination with alcohol will kill through respiratory failure and cardiac arrest. Almost all narcotics, including synthetic derivatives fall into the primary overdose category. The SR ( sustained release) drugs are especially dangerous as some people still do not understand that one pill is all they can safely take in 12 hours or 24 hours.. The pain relief is maintained through taking the medication without lapses so there is not breakthrough pain. Also, with these newer chronic pain relief medications, a pill taken at 8 PM will have peak activity 8-10 hours later. People are not used to this concept, and often accidentally overdose by taking another dose too soon. Usually, they recover without treatment, but will be hypersedated for 24 hours or so.

Anti-anxiety drugs of the benzodiazapine type may or may not cause lethal effects. Some are very short acting.. it is almost impossible for a healthy adult to kill one's self with a 30 day supply of Xanax, for example, because a healthy liver metabolizes it so fast.
This is not true of the longer acting benzodiazapines such as Clonazapam.
Alcohol makes every sedative drug more potent, in fact the term the reaction caused from mixing them is called potentiation. Drinking and taking any type of sedative can kill.

Tyenol ( Acetomenophen) overdosage kills in a much different way. The person doesn't just " go to sleep", they experience sudden, acute, fulminant liver damage and very often, death. This is because Acetomenophen is metabolized by the liver very slowly and has a high hepatatic toxicity rate at relatively low doses.
Sometimes people have combined two cold medications containing Acetomenophen and have ended up with permanently damaged livers because they took too much. It is particularly dangerous for children, of course, and we know not to give our kids Aspirin because of Reyes' Syndrome...
There is a specific drug which binds to and helps the kidneys excrete Acetomenophin without liver damage. I don't know much about it but that it was discovered accidentally a few years ago and works well if the person receives emergency treatment and diagnosis promptly and then receives the proper dose of the antidote over a period of days.

It stands to reason that heart medications, blood pressure medicines, etc will kill if taken in deliberate massive overdoses. The cause of death will be from organ failure from the body system acted upon by the therapeutic agent.

Thank you for all of this info
What's interesting is that most people would assume you can die from OTC sleeping pills, but not from something like Tylenol. I know alot of people who take it too close together. Do you just go to sleep with anything? I've heard that you often throw it all up, stagger around, hallucinate and all kinds of things. It's not a peaceful death which everybody seems to think. I know Marilyn Monroe was found with alot of bruises and the conspiracy theorists say that's proof of murder. It's more likely she got up for some reason.

 

[Thinkoflaura]

Thank you for all of this info
What's interesting is that most people would assume you can die from OTC sleeping pills, but not from something like Tylenol. I know alot of people who take it too close together. Do you just go to sleep with anything? I've heard that you often throw it all up, stagger around, hallucinate and all kinds of things. It's not a peaceful death which everybody seems to think. I know Marilyn Monroe was found with alot of bruises and the conspiracy theorists say that's proof of murder. It's more likely she got up for some reason.

Man, I hate to keep diverting case discussion but you asked, , so here's my best answer:
Obviously, most successful overdoses are not witnessed or the person witnessing the pill taking overdose would have called 911. But yes, people are found by friends/ family in a sleeping, peaceful position free of vomit or other signs of bodily distress as they were dying from an overdose of a DEPRESSANT drug.

Death from a stimulant drug would be quite the opposite. The person would have seizure activity, fast heart rate, would show signs of what apppeared to be a sudden psychosis with hallucinations.. all the speeded up activities multplied. Death would probably result from cardiac arrest and not the respiratory arrest seen in a depressant overdose drug death.

IV drug abusers who have overdosed have been observed and in those cases, the person collapses suddenly and has respiratory arrest. Often, there is somewhat of a seizure like activity as they lose consciouness because their brain is hypoxic. Several celebs have died this way and usually 911 is called and CPR is done on the scene.

I brought up the Tylenol overdose example because it is under- discussed, under- reported accidental cause of death and the liver damage or rapid onset of liver failure can be so easily prevented.
Each of us must make sure that we read labels of all OTC medications, especially for our children and the elderly, and do not take or give a combo of drugs which contain Tylenol or it's generic name, Acetomenophen.
Thanks for reading.

 

[beesy]

]IV drug abusers who have overdosed have been observed and in those cases, the person collapses suddenly and has respiratory arrest. Often, there is somewhat of a seizure like activity as they lose consciouness because their brain is hypoxic. Several celebs have died this way and usually 911 is called and CPR is done on the scene

.
River Phoenix comes to mind here. Supposedly, he had taken alot of drugs already that night when someone gave him something in the restroom of the Viper Room(brown heroin?). His heart started going nuts and he started sweating. Someone else gave him a Valium to help reverse the effects and he staggered outside where he seized on the pavement and died, the idiot.
Well, we are talking about drugs which is the title of the thread so I don't think we're really off-topic :crazy:

 

[Goody]

I am sorry that I upset you, love :blowkiss: I am not picking your every word apart. But, as you said, there is a difference between Phen-Fen and true amphetamines, which is what I have been talking about. I had to get my magnifying glass out to take a harder look at the report. It says "positive due to Phentermine". No mention of the Fen. I still can't see any levels though. Do you know what would be a theraputic level for Darlie? We still need to take into conideration that she was taking the drug longer than she should have been. She was not emotionally stable. Almost to the day just one month before the murders Darlie claims she took all of the OTC sleeping pills out of a bottle and unwrapped them. Darin caught her and then she says she felt ok. She tells this story. She also wrote it in her diary. More evidence for histrionic peronality disorder. Darlie wears a sign and it says "LOOK AT ME". When that doesn't work, there are always more extreme things to do. If she were really suicidal she would have found a way to kill herself.

Or maybe she was just trying to get Darin's attention, to get Darin to "understand" that she needed him home more, etc. She wouldn't be the first young wive to choose a dramatic act like "suicide" to get the message across. Note that she never got around to putting the first pill in her mouth. She called Darin herself to alert him. He didn't come home unexpectedly and catch her. It was obviously part of the domestic dance those two were used to doing. Or like Darin phrased it, their "emotional ."

 

[Goody]

Well I don't understand what your theory is anymore Goody, LOL,

I have never had A theory. I have looked at the case from many angles and come up with possibilities, but I can't find a key ingredient to tell me which one is THE one. So I still bounce them around, hoping something telling will stick.

I tend to bypass those long long posts.

Most of those are in direct response to someone else's posts so that is fine. You don't have to read what you don't want to. I don't read everyone's every word either.

You've dismissed just about everything the posters here have come up with for reasons why she might have done it.

Well, as long as there is another side of the coin, I will try to show it. If someone has a theory that has a hole in it, I'd be remiss as a fellow poster not to point it out. You folks sure wouldn't hesitate to point out my weak points.

Yes, the diet pills may have hindered her impulse control. Something did or she just wanted rid of them so that's why she killed them. That's my new theory.

LOL! See, even you do it! hahahahahhahah

I wish you luck in finding the why but I doubt you will unless Darlie tells you and she ain't talking or she wouldn't be on DR. She'll take the secrets to her grave I believe.

Not likely that I will, but you never know. Maybe I will go snooping around someday. Until then I guess I will just keep hoping some of her friends will email me or post about her and those days prior to the murders.

 

[Goody]

[/color]
I have to agree with cami here Goody. So many of us, you included, have come up with some very good theories. I don't think we'll ever find proof. Even if she confesses, she'll never tell the entire thing, especially if it was pre-meditated. At some point you just have to say, "she killed her boys and that's that".

Only if you are talking about conviction and punishment, but there are other elements of this case that can be analyzed. If you don't want to participate, don't. Each to his own interests.

 

[beesy]

Or maybe she was just trying to get Darin's attention, to get Darin to "understand" that she needed him home more, etc. She wouldn't be the first young wive to choose a dramatic act like "suicide" to get the message across. Note that she never got around to putting the first pill in her mouth. She called Darin herself to alert him. He didn't come home unexpectedly and catch her. It was obviously part of the domestic dance those two were used to doing. Or like Darin phrased it, their "emotional ."

That's pretty much the definition of a histrionic personality. Attention seeking Drama Queen