Amphetamines

[Cassata11]

What is a meth face?

Thanks, I know nothing about drugs.

imoo

LOL...I was going to ask the same thing..

 

[whitywendy]

I have been reading the MTJD book. Pretty sad when a book is produced for people to understand how "railroaded" and "innocent" she is, when in-fact the book just proves even more that Darlie committed murder. IMO I think the amphetamines fueled her thoughts and actually convinced her that she could get away it. Anything that speeds you up, speeds up your thought process and since she was having so many "issues" I really believe that her mind convinced her that this would be the solution and she could get away it. Why do you think so many people on drugs make such bad decisions, uh the brain told them to do. Legal or not it was speed. JMO

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I have been reading the MTJD book. Pretty sad when a book is produced for people to understand how "railroaded" and "innocent" she is, when in-fact the book just proves even more that Darlie committed murder. IMO I think the amphetamines fueled her thoughts and actually convinced her that she could get away it. Anything that speeds you up, speeds up your thought process and since she was having so many "issues" I really believe that her mind convinced her that this would be the solution and she could get away it. Why do you think so many people on drugs make such bad decisions, uh the brain told them to do. Legal or not it was speed. JMO

I agree about the book. I think what the speed proves is that she was having issues with self esteem (warranted or not) and she didn't feel good about herself. That could lead a woman to do all sorts of things, especially when coupled with EVERYTHING else this couple was going through! Personally, I don't think she was fat, but you know how women are after child birth! Hormones gallore!

 

[whitywendy]

I agree about the book. I think what the speed proves is that she was having issues with self esteem (warranted or not) and she didn't feel good about herself. That could lead a woman to do all sorts of things, especially when coupled with EVERYTHING else this couple was going through! Personally, I don't think she was fat, but you know how women are after child birth! Hormones gallore!

I didn't think she was fat either. It also makes sense about her taking them to "make her feel better" about herself. Who knows she could of been taking more than her regular dosage. It is amazing to me that this woman still denies everything. When looking at that DNA map in the book, you can totally see IMO where she went over by the baby walker after she was bleeding (during her staging point) to check on a noise, which is when she noticed that poor little Damon had moved or was moving. You see her drops of blood between the side table and all down that green couch. I am even more disgusted now after getting this book. Sorry but that man did more damage than good. I wonder if her family has realized this.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I didn't think she was fat either. It also makes sense about her taking them to "make her feel better" about herself. Who knows she could of been taking more than her regular dosage. It is amazing to me that this woman still denies everything. When looking at that DNA map in the book, you can totally see IMO where she went over by the baby walker after she was bleeding (during her staging point) to check on a noise, which is when she noticed that poor little Damon had moved or was moving. You see her drops of blood between the side table and all down that green couch. I am even more disgusted now after getting this book. Sorry but that man did more damage than good. I wonder if her family has realized this.

I think they do realize it, but would never actually say so.

 

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I acquired some diet pills from Stetners clinic back in 85 when I had to lose some baby weight.
My God the dosage I had been given kept me up and going for 2 days on 1 pill. I had just moved back to Lubbock and I unpacked my entire house and cleaned up like crazy.
I threw away all the moving boxes and junk I decided I no longer needed etc. I decided that I could in no way handle taking those kinds of drugs on a regular basis. I threw the rest away.
I slept after those two days for 16 hours ( my mom and mother-in-law had my kids ) and you couldn't have woken me with a police siren next to my ears.
Meth wasn't even around when the boys were murdered but the diet pills available by RX or even over the counter are well documented as having side effects and even causing death. It was Mama Darlie who referred me to the clinic as she has battled her weight all the time I've known her.
The diet pills Darlie was taking are now off the market as they have been tied to a couple of deaths.

 

[cami]

I didn't think she was fat either. It also makes sense about her taking them to "make her feel better" about herself. Who knows she could of been taking more than her regular dosage. It is amazing to me that this woman still denies everything. When looking at that DNA map in the book, you can totally see IMO where she went over by the baby walker after she was bleeding (during her staging point) to check on a noise, which is when she noticed that poor little Damon had moved or was moving. You see her drops of blood between the side table and all down that green couch. I am even more disgusted now after getting this book. Sorry but that man did more damage than good. I wonder if her family has realized this.

Do you think she might have walked on the couch to get to Damon, hence the line of blood drops? The glass table being down at that point..it was the shortest route to Damon. I see her maybe resting her hand on that table and that's where the bloody print came from. Just a thought, though I think it was Camilla who first thought she ran down the couch so it's not my original theory.

 

[eleven]

I have taken phentermine many times. It IS legal speed....period. It is an amphetamine. There are many different doses, and from my experience, when you first start taking it, it can mess with your head.

However, I am one of the few that do not believe she is guilty. Never have, and unless something more compelling comes about, I never will. Don't flame! It's my opinion. There was never any prior indication of abusing or neglecting her children - quite the opposite, in fact. Prior to the night of the murders, all evidence indicates that her boys were loved by her and doted on by her.

IMO, Darlie already had strikes against her.....she was blonde, pretty and well off financially (maybe not later on) and the whole silly string incident solidified her guilt to many people. I agree that the silly string incident was bizarre, inappropriate and in bad taste - but if anything, I think it displayed an extreme case immaturity as well as non-acceptance of the finality of it all.

Don't hate! I'm not meaning to ruffle anyones feathers, because I know that there are some people (not necessarily posters here) that are CONVINCED of her guilt and do not take lightly to people who think she could be innocent....but I think that her innocence is a very high probabilty.:truce:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I have taken phentermine many times. It IS legal speed....period. It is an amphetamine. There are many different doses, and from my experience, when you first start taking it, it can mess with your head.

However, I am one of the few that do not believe she is guilty. Never have, and unless something more compelling comes about, I never will. Don't flame! It's my opinion. There was never any prior indication of abusing or neglecting her children - quite the opposite, in fact. Prior to the night of the murders, all evidence indicates that her boys were loved by her and doted on by her.

IMO, Darlie already had strikes against her.....she was blonde, pretty and well off financially (maybe not later on) and the whole silly string incident solidified her guilt to many people. I agree that the silly string incident was bizarre, inappropriate and in bad taste - but if anything, I think it displayed an extreme case immaturity as well as non-acceptance of the finality of it all.

Don't hate! I'm not meaning to ruffle anyones feathers, because I know that there are some people (not necessarily posters here) that are CONVINCED of her guilt and do not take lightly to people who think she could be innocent....but I think that her innocence is a very high probabilty.:truce:

Hey, thanks for your post. I'm sort of confused, however, about your thoughts about her having strikes against her because she was blonde, pretty and well off financially. Don't poor, not too good looking, dark haired/dark skinned people believe that THEY are behind the eight-ball for that very reason? I think its impossible to have it both ways.

 

[whitywendy]

Do you think she might have walked on the couch to get to Damon, hence the line of blood drops? The glass table being down at that point..it was the shortest route to Damon. I see her maybe resting her hand on that table and that's where the bloody print came from. Just a thought, though I think it was Camilla who first thought she ran down the couch so it's not my original theory.

YES Cami - I am no expert but I can plainly see it. Yea she grabbed the table to balance herself after she came off the couch IMO

 

[weasel]

<<There was never any prior indication of abusing or neglecting her children - quite the opposite, in fact>>

Just wondering, maybe someone here can answer, didn't some of her neighbors take the stand and testify that Darlie frequently yelled at the boys and locked them outside all day so they wouldn't mess up the house? Also, I can't remember this well, but I think I read in a book about the case that Darlie embarrassed one of the boys at his birthday party by smashing cake in his face. Does anyone else remember reading this?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

<<There was never any prior indication of abusing or neglecting her children - quite the opposite, in fact>>

Just wondering, maybe someone here can answer, didn't some of her neighbors take the stand and testify that Darlie frequently yelled at the boys and locked them outside all day so they wouldn't mess up the house? Also, I can't remember this well, but I think I read in a book about the case that Darlie embarrassed one of the boys at his birthday party by smashing cake in his face. Does anyone else remember reading this?

Yup. Its true. They were also allowed to play in the hot tub unsupervised and crawl through the window into the garage to get pops out of the freezer, another two things that could have killed them.

 

[StellaTraver]

Yup. Its true. They were also allowed to play in the hot tub unsupervised and crawl through the window into the garage to get pops out of the freezer, another two things that could have killed them.

And let's not forget the incident in the pawn shop where she was yelling at them to get their asses over here (not exact quote but the gist of it-definitely talking inappropriately to them)
My understanding of the opinion of some people who knew her (don't remember if it was in the transcript or a book) that she HAD been the neighborhood mom, involved with her kids, helping at school parties etc, but she had become intolerant of them and was not longer the "doting" mother.
I don't think the fact that she was blonde, pretty (?), or well-off had anything to do with being found guilty. If anything, these factors would have worked FOR her. She definitely doesn't look like the stereotypical murderer. I think she personally banked on that when she concocted the story of the attack. I can't help wondering if she didn't use her looks, her almost childlike voice to manipulate many situations throughout life. Am thinking she probably played Darin like a Stradivarius at times.

 

[SeekingJana]

I live not too far from Rowlett. Similar type community, socio-economically, also.
There is a doctor in our town who is a very good doctor. He is past middle age, and has been in medical practice for many years. He is still on top of his game. He happens to be my doctor, after me trying 3 others and not feeling comfortable with their judgements and extreme drug sample peddling.

Back to my doctor: He also has a Weight Management Clinic. That's the main reason he was the 3rd doctor in a rather small area for me to go see. I was afraid he was a quack, despite being told repeatedly over the course of several years that he is a superb doctor.
His Weight Management Clinic is simple: He takes a few patients per week on a cash only basis and if their BMI falls into the seriously overweight or obese category AND they are healthy otherwise, he is one of the few doctors who are upfront about the fact that they prescribe Phentermine in 2008. He also provides diet plans for the person and they have to go every 4 weeks for follow ups and medication refills if needed. I had to do a lot of soul searching before I could go to him for medical problems.

I realized, and I think we each need to realize when it comes to discussing the diet drug Phentermine, and, in thie thread,Darlie's use of Fen- Phen that:

1) Phentermine is a legal drug in the USA. (Dexfenfluramine was also legal at the time Darlie was takiing it, but it has been withdrawn from the USA market because of rare reports of both heart damage and primary pulmonary hypertension.) Also, I do not see a tox screen saying that she tested positive for Dexfenfluramine, only Phentermine.

2) Phentermine is a very old, tried and tested diet drug. Yes, it is a Methamphentamine class drug, the only one still on the market primarily marketed for weight loss. The dosage ranges from 15 mg capsules to 37.5 mg tablets.

3) Only the prescribing and treating physician and the patient can decide if Phentermine is appropriate for a person. The doctor is the one who sets the widely varying dosage. Also, if a person has adverse reactions to the medication, it is their responsibility to stop taking the medication, notify their doctor or seek emergency medical attention, depending on the severity of symptoms.

4) Probably almost as many women in the USA on this forum have taken Phentermine than haven't at some point in our lives. I bet that for each of us, a doctor wrote the prescription and we walked into our drugstore and had the prescription filled. It is neither shameful or socially unacceptable to take Phentermine if it is indicated for use.

IOW, Darlie was not on street drugs. She was no different from many of us who have wanted to drop some weight and had difficulty doing so. Fen-Phen was dispensed at free-standing diet clinics all across the country just a few years ago. Although I did not live in Texas when Fen-Phen was popular and widely available, I have no reason to think that the same diet centers or clinics weren't not in existence in Texas, legally and with licensed MDs.

I think it's a non-issue. There is no reason to believe that she had any behavioral problems stemming from the drug or from the combo Fen-Phen. Most people don't have.. although some, as have posted here, did have physical symptoms. I remember taking a Midol ( with caffiene as the main ingredient) in the 8th grade and feeling like ants were crawling on me, sweating and my heart racing. We respond to medications differently, and also differently for the same person at different ages.

 

[whitywendy]

I would have to disagree in regards to Phentermine not effecting her mental state. Darlie was already having some major issues in her life. She was stressed out over money, she IMO had some sort of PPD from having Drake - so her mental state was not strong enough to handle the "side effects" from the diet pill. Like I said before I did not take the one she was taking and but I did take this one - went to a Weight Loss Clinic last year - sounds like the exact same type you went to. Anyhow, I do remember NOW how easier it was for me to "fly off the handle" quicker than usual. So if she wasn't mentally stable in the first place that drug didn't HELP her mentally either. IMO she had to had something freaking wrong with her brain in order to do what she did to those boys in the first place.

 

[whitywendy]

And let's not forget the incident in the pawn shop where she was yelling at them to get their asses over here (not exact quote but the gist of it-definitely talking inappropriately to them)
My understanding of the opinion of some people who knew her (don't remember if it was in the transcript or a book) that she HAD been the neighborhood mom, involved with her kids, helping at school parties etc, but she had become intolerant of them and was not longer the "doting" mother.
I don't think the fact that she was blonde, pretty (?), or well-off had anything to do with being found guilty. If anything, these factors would have worked FOR her. She definitely doesn't look like the stereotypical murderer. I think she personally banked on that when she concocted the story of the attack. I can't help wondering if she didn't use her looks, her almost childlike voice to manipulate many situations throughout life. Am thinking she probably played Darin like a Stradivarius at times.

Right there, that statement alone tells us she was having some mental issues and of course her family was in denial.

 

[SeekingJana]

I would have to disagree in regards to Phentermine not effecting her mental state. Darlie was already having some major issues in her life. She was stressed out over money, she IMO had some sort of PPD from having Drake - so her mental state was not strong enough to handle the "side effects" from the diet pill. Like I said before I did not take the one she was taking and but I did take this one - went to a Weight Loss Clinic last year - sounds like the exact same type you went to. Anyhow, I do remember NOW how easier it was for me to "fly off the handle" quicker than usual. So if she wasn't mentally stable in the first place that drug didn't HELP her mentally either. IMO she had to had something freaking wrong with her brain in order to do what she did to those boys in the first place.

Could you please explain your statements about Darlie's mental state? How do you know what it was and how do you know that she was affected by diet pills?

Also, you state that maybe she wasn't mentally stable in the first place. What leads you to this conclusion?

I really do not understand why people are interjecting their experiences with a medication into a discussion of a woman who is on death row. Unless a person knew Darlie personally, how can anyone say that diet pills adversely affected her?

I am not trying to be confrontative or argue, but I don't understand how statements can be made about Darlie and Phentermine based upon a poster's experience with them.

Since others are telling their own experiences with Phentermine: As I said, I have taken Phentermine in the past to lose only a very few pounds, meaning that I was not overly large to start with, about Darlie's size minus the artificially large chest for body structure, and the only side effects I had, if you can call them that, were dry mouth, a change in my soft contact lens comfort, and rarely, insomnia. My personality was not adversely affected at all.

If anything, I was more outgoing and happier. Just to add the other side of the coin to this discussion.

Maria

 

[cami]

Could you please explain your statements about Darlie's mental state? How do you know what it was and how do you know that she was affected by diet pills?

Also, you state that maybe she wasn't mentally stable in the first place. What leads you to this conclusion?

I really do not understand why people are interjecting their experiences with a medication into a discussion of a woman who is on death row. Unless a person knew Darlie personally, how can anyone say that diet pills adversely affected her?

I am not trying to be confrontative or argue, but I don't understand how statements can be made about Darlie and Phentermine based upon a poster's experience with them.

Since others are telling their own experiences with Phentermine: As I said, I have taken Phentermine in the past to lose only a very few pounds, meaning that I was not overly large to start with, about Darlie's size minus the artificially large chest for body structure, and the only side effects I had, if you can call them that, were dry mouth, a change in my soft contact lens comfort, and rarely, insomnia. My personality was not adversely affected at all.

If anything, I was more outgoing and happier. Just to add the other side of the coin to this discussion.

Maria

Well Darlie was unable to sleep at night for one side effect. She was edgy during the day for another. Her friends and the neighbours have testified to same. That's why her story of that night is incomprehensible..it just doesn't ring true. You don't sleep downstairs because your baby is keeping you awake and then claim to sleep through the brutal murders of your two eldest boys! Bullfeathers.

Darlie, at one time, the doting mother, but since taking the meds and since having Drake, she was intolerant of her children as said. She was emotionally detaching from them. They were locked outside all day in the hot sun, left unsupervised, yelled and cursed at. They were no longer allowed to have their friends over to play video games. Drake had birthday cake smeared in his face, surprising and humiliating him in front of his friends.

there's also the suicide entry in her journal. Darlie was unstable and depressed and should never have been on phen-fen in the first place. And she was taking it for longer than is recommended.

We can't say that the pills led to murder but it's possible there's a connection combined with all the other issues Darlie was facing...business failing, marriage failing, etc.

:blowkiss:

 

[cami]

Yup. Its true. They were also allowed to play in the hot tub unsupervised and crawl through the window into the garage to get pops out of the freezer, another two things that could have killed them.

And ride their bikes in the subdivision...unsupervised.

 

[StellaTraver]

And ride their bikes in the subdivision...unsupervised.

AND wasn't there an incident of a neighbor seeing one of them in an area that was sectioned off for construction work? I just don't think, at the time of this crime and for some time prior, she had been an attentive mother-for WHATEVER reason. But the suicide entry shows that she wasn't 100%. Personally, I don't think the suicide entry was indicative of a real suicide intent, but I think at that point she was desperate for some type of intervention. I don't think Darin just happened to find the pill wrappers Domain was dragging out-I think the whole scenario was constructed and she was hoping for who knows what to be resolved. I keep remembering that article where Darin talked about how he and Darlie always did dramatic stuff (does anyone remember that one? Was it Texas Monthly?) I think that was how they "resolved" problems-someone did something dramatic, the other one responded. Now whether or not her mindset was caused by phentermine, postpartum hormone fluctuations, stress, etc is anyone's guess but she definitely wasn't feeling on top of the world.