AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

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I really really do understand your feelings, but what about the similarities to the Lunsford, Smart, and Klass cases? This scenario can happen and has. And I read recently that usually when parents are involved there are other things that have happened in the past that were not too savory. There is nothing that I know of that has been reported or confirmed that would indicate this family is a family that would put their children at risk or harm them. I am sitting on the fence and not leaning toward the immediate family mainly because I just don't know. It is so sad and maddening at the same time. :banghead: jmo

JMOO I would have to reread about A Lunsford...but the main difference is their ages ( older)....and that there were witnesses E's sister and PK's friends saw her physically being abducted.

Real abductions are happening and threatening our communities every day. HB, LS, SM, MS.

Saddly, accidents at home and all sorts of domestic abuse happen too. Every false report wastes rescources-of LE and ultimately takes away from someone's rescue and recovery.

Not to mention real $$$ donated from a caring and generous public.

:eek:hdear:
 
Totally agree (except I think they kind of know what happened, not planned, not responsible - just having that looking back everything falls into place thingy)

Everyone seems so concerned that they have not been cleared by LE ... my understanding is half of Tucson hasn't been cleared.

Yes.But,half of Tucson wasn't sleeping under the same roof as Isabel on the night she went missing ? MOO
 
Totally agree (except I think they kind of know what happened, not planned, not responsible - just having that looking back everything falls into place thingy)

Everyone seems so concerned that they have not been cleared by LE ... my understanding is half of Tucson hasn't been cleared.

I am not sure they know what happened or if it was planned. It seems it would have had to have some kind of planning although the length of time may not have been a long length of time...like weeks or months.

It may turnout to be like Couey who really didnt put a lot of thought into it , imo, when he decided to invade the Lunsford home to kidnap Jessica or these suspects could have put more aforethought into the planning like Joesph Duncan did before he invaded the Greone home.

I am not concerned in the least that they havent ruled out the parents. LE never ruled out a lot of parents in these same type of cases before the real suspect was arrested.

LE may have a valid reason for wanting the real suspect(s) to believe the parents are in the crosshairs too.

IMO
 
I really really do understand your feelings, but what about the similarities to the Lunsford, Smart, and Klass cases? This scenario can happen and has. And I read recently that usually when parents are involved there are other things that have happened in the past that were not too savory. There is nothing that I know of that has been reported or confirmed that would indicate this family is a family that would put their children at risk or harm them. I am sitting on the fence and not leaning toward the immediate family mainly because I just don't know. It is so sad and maddening at the same time. :banghead: jmo

Respectfully, driving drunk with a child in the car is not safe behavior, it puts a lot of people at risk...Also, CPS was at the house in December of last year. Perhaps we may not be aware of evrything that has happened ? Just MOO
 
Yes.But,half of Tucson wasn't sleeping under the same roof as Isabel on the night she went missing ? MOO

They are still in the pot though because LE said unless someone can prove they werent in Tuscon when Isa disappeared they are not ruled out.

I dont think it has a thing to do with where Isa was sleeping no more than it did when another stranger came in and kidnapped the child out of their own bedroom. It is who kidnapped Isa from her bedroom that is paramount. Not where she lived.

IMO
 
Maybe they haven't made an arrest " Yet" because - this was a single isolated "event" in the lives of this family and "they" ( RC SC) don't pose a threat to the community.

For example the arrest of AGT ( I think those are his initials) in Sierra Lamar's case. He poses a threat.

I don't think it's because they lack a single shred of evidence but perhaps it's that they may not have THE shred to make a conviction. ( yet)

I am hoping for justice soon.

too many similarities to
the Bradley-Irwins and Mccanns for me.

JMOO:gavel:

iSleuth, LE arrest people who are guilty all the time that do not pose a threat to the rest of the community. They have arrested rocket scientists, doctors, lawyers, politicians,husbands, wives, etc...who never had a criminal history for any past crimes.

LE is in the business of arresting people that do crimes. They are not in the business of letting perps walk around free to roam simply because they dont think they are a threat to the community.

IMO
 
They are still in the pot though because LE said unless someone can prove they werent in Tuscon when Isa disappeared they are not ruled out.

I dont think it has a thing to do with where Isa was sleeping no more than it did when another stranger came in and kidnapped the child out of their own bedroom. It is who kidnapped Isa from her bedroom that is paramount. Not where she lived.

IMO

Respectfully, I believe you missed the point. But,never mind...JMO
 
They are still in the pot though because LE said unless someone can prove they werent in Tuscon when Isa disappeared they are not ruled out.



IMO
Hi , I missed this!! can you post a link tia.
It would make sense there are a lot of suspects.
 
Respectfully, driving drunk with a child in the car is not safe behavior, it puts a lot of people at risk...Also, CPS was at the house in December of last year. Perhaps we may not be aware of evrything that has happened ? Just MOO
Agree- But RC would have to have let State Board of AZ know about this in order to get a lic. If she didn't let them know and they find out now it would not be good. However a fp clearance card would not be issued if this dui was still an issue.
 
Agree- But RC would have to have let State Board of AZ know about this in order to get a lic. If she didn't let them know and they find out now it would not be good. However a fp clearance card would not be issued if this dui was still an issue.

I was responding to another poster,who felt that RC and SC had never done anything to put their children at risk. Hope this makes it clearer...JMO
 
Respectfully, driving drunk with a child in the car is not safe behavior, it puts a lot of people at risk...Also, CPS was at the house in December of last year. Perhaps we may not be aware of evrything that has happened ? Just MOO

I definitely think that is a true statement. We do not know anything about the dui. I do know it was dropped by the state. Usually means no evidense. And we do not know anything about the CPS visit in December. Unfortunately we can only speculate. And this is where the opinions differ. Hopefully, soon we may be enlightened by LE and we can make more educated guesses as to what happened. jmo
 
iSleuth, LE arrest people who are guilty all the time that do not pose a threat to the rest of the community. They have arrested rocket scientists, doctors, lawyers, politicians,husbands, wives, etc...who never had a criminal history for any past crimes.

LE is in the business of arresting people that do crimes. They are not in the business of letting perps walk around free to roam simply because they dont think they are a threat to the community.

IMO

I feared this was unclear .. I am sorry. They do arrest people. I know. That was not to say that LE willingly lets guilty walk free either but for the Bill of Rights and the rights of the accused and small matter of habeas corpus- many do escape justice or are saved by it. (CA and OS) Depending on how we look at it.
 
Love those photos of little Gitana :) Thanks for sharing.

Re: Make-up. Isa photos in which she's wearing make-up look theatrical to me. I wonder if she was ever an extra or in the children's chorus with the Tucson opera? Isabel probably saw her dad donning make-up and/or wigs for his performances and was interested in the process.

Not sure whether or not it's related, but I have wondered what Becky meant in one of the parents' interviews when she said that (paraphrasing) "(they) wondered if they had done something to put Isabel in harm's way." Does anyone else recall the comments, and if so, what are your thoughts about it?

OT: Today is the 44th anniversary of my high school graduation :D

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

Here you go, I was happy to do it so that I could have an opportunity to mention how freaking ADORABLE our Gitana was as a little girl! The picture is too precious for words.

Was that Gitana? I thought it was just some Spanish kids from her link. The photos were dated 2005 and 2009 and I pictured Gitana as a little older than that.

Sorry for the confusion! Donjeta is right. Those are not me! I posted them after stating that it is a rite of passage for little Spanish girls every year for the fair! They are just random kids from the net.

But, ahem, I was pretty darn cute so just for kicks, I will post my pics (need to scan). They were taken in the 70's.

Agreed Gitana's pix were adorable. I haven't seen pix of Isabel in make up, from another member's comments here about the make up, I was asking what she meant by it. As for the Madeleine McCann photos, there are several, the ice cream photo and there is a photo of her lying down with her arm back and elbow up, a very odd position for a little girl, very pose-y. I think that there is a swimming pool photo of her also in make up. A photo shoot and quite odd. This has no bearing on Isabel's photos.

Can you link to those photos? Because it does have something to do with Isabel's photos. The make-up photo of Isabel is of her in what appears to be make-up you put on a kid for a dance recital, or something like that. Not full blown pageant make-up. She's standing next to someone (a female), just beaming. IMO, nothing suggestive or disturbing, at all.

I see a trend of ripping every little thing apart in some of these cases, to prove that the parents were pimping out their kids, or whatever. An innocent kid who happens to move her arms in a certain manner is suddenly posing suggestively, a kid with red lips from eating ice cream has been made up to look like a prostitute, etc., so it must mean the parents are into kiddie *advertiser censored* and were molesting their missing child to death or allowing others to do so, or creating child *advertiser censored* they were selling.

I don't buy it in either of these cases. Both kids have numerous photos, including ones very recent to their disappearance, that show a child who has not lost her innocence, with the wide-eyed and beaming glee of a child who has never known a moment of abuse or deprivation:

images
(One month before she went missing).
images
(The day before she disappeared).

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical of finding something nefarious in every nuance of these children's lives, like, in Isabel's case, who braided her hair, if she had a photo with make-up, etc.

Did Sergio have something to do with his daughter's disappearance? The actions of LE and CPS certainly seem to suggest so. But whether he tucked her in or just let her tuck herself in, the order in which the family took showers, or whether dad asked if she was hungry that night at 11:30 p.m., or a child-performance type photo of Isa - none of that tells me a thing. :twocents:
 
Hi , I missed this!! can you post a link tia.
It would make sense there are a lot of suspects.

I will look for it Mary. Do we have a link thread for this case? It may be in there , if so.

It was said in one of the PCs iirc or when Hawke spoke to the media.

IMO
 
iSleuth, LE arrest people who are guilty all the time that do not pose a threat to the rest of the community. They have arrested rocket scientists, doctors, lawyers, politicians,husbands, wives, etc...who never had a criminal history for any past crimes.

LE is in the business of arresting people that do crimes. They are not in the business of letting perps walk around free to roam simply because they dont think they are a threat to the community.

IMO

If le arrests somebody then they have to be able that they can prove brd that they commited the crime. They cannot just lock people up and then investigate. Otherwise poor Jyesse's mother would be in jail.
 
If le arrests somebody then they have to be able that they can prove brd that they commited the crime. They cannot just lock people up and then investigate. Otherwise poor Jyesse's mother would be in jail.

BBM

I am well aware of the BARD threshold, WSAZ.

But other posters have said LE has the evidence and thinks it points to Isa's parents.
 
I was responding to another poster,who felt that RC and SC had never done anything to put their children at risk. Hope this makes it clearer...JMO


Obviously CPS believes there is some sort of risk issue. People who are convicted felons with DUI- gun- drug possession as well as assault and battery charges get visitation with their kids. You would think under extreme family emergency as this cps would want the family together if at all safe and possible.
 
It's Friday afternoon. Hoping for some news/a break for Isabel ... Seems to be the pattern for LE here.

X fingers crossed X
 
It's Friday afternoon. Hoping for some news/a break for Isabel ... Seems to be the pattern for LE here.

X fingers crossed X

You're right. It's four pm here now, I'll come back around 7:30 pm to see if there's been any BOMBSHELLS! :see ya:
 
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