Bug bite or ear infection?

[matou]

MOO: DB mentioned an ear infection as an excuse to why she put Lisa to bed at 6:40. She says she was fussy but she was fine. ???? From the Dr. Phil transcripts.

 

[vlpate]

Ear infection or not, the public knew the baby was sick. Or are there degrees of sickness? the public would have more urgency with an ear infection vs common cold vs not sick at all? A missing baby is a missing baby.

I'm not sure whether or not you have kids, and if so, how often ear infections were a problem, some kids never have them. Untreated (depending on the type), can lead to more serious issues, like meningitis.

A bottle was found by the BL's bed that morning and babies with ear infections shouldn't be put to bed with their bottle. DB and JI smoke, this is very irritating to an ear infection.

DB's pediatrician would have informed her of both these hazards, had she taken her for treatment. I would be willing to bet the computer room window was open because she was smoking while on the computer.

These are the choices, as far as I am concerned - she is lying (why?), she didn't mention the ear infection because she could just care less, she is telling the truth but lied by omission to begin with.

 

[4Jacy]

On the tags that my dogs wear, along with all the information, I always add, needs medication daily. Please return, REWARD. My dogs have never needed meds daily, but this is a precaution.

That being said, the first thing I would say to the media is, my daughter is a very sick little girl and she needs her medication/dr. care. Whatever! DB didn't play her cards right, or maybe she did - depending on the outcome she wanted.

 

[vlpate]

I know she said infection, the post I was replying to said earache.
And yes, infections DO normally clear up on their own if given the chance. Ask any pediatrician now. The ADMA is trying to convince more people to actually give them a chance to clear up on their own due to antibiotic resistance fears.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=122267

Perhaps this sentence was missed in your link: "Current treatment guidelines give doctors the choice of prescribing antibiotics right away or observing children for up to three days with only pain management to see if they get better on their own."
_________________
Ear infections can be serious left untreated - I would hate for anyone reading this, with young children, to think it's ok to just wait it out without knowing there's a time limit. There are different types of ear infections and DB should have mentioned to the person who took her baby - who, in her words, wouldn't hurt the baby, that BL has an ear infection that needs attention. http://www.medicinenet.com/ear_infection/page6.htm#mediae

DB mentioned a bug bite, but not an ear infection - I agree it could be nothing, but at this point, DB has had a while to think about every word she was going to say on the Dr. Phil show - I just can't figure out why now. Something was said by the boys about DB giving BL medicine is my guess. Did she give her something from a prescription bottle and now has to explain it?

If they ask Deborah for any prescriptions belonging to Lisa now, wouldn't they have to have a search warrant if she said she threw the meds away? I may be wrong, but I don't think they can compel Lisa's medical records and prescriptions without a court order - right, or wrong?

Only an autopsy on Lisa's body would tell us for sure.

 

[iamnotagolem]

The ear infection was a huge surprise to me, I don't understand why it's just now coming out.

But one thing that bothered me from the beginning is the only thing they ever really said is that they need Lisa b/c she completes the family.

If one of my children went missing, I'd hope beyond all hope that whoever took them wanted a child of their own, and I would give them information to help keep my kids happy. Favorite foods, songs, toys, movies, etc. Lisa was 10 months old, why wasn't the brand of formula she was on ever mentioned, or whether or not she was breastfed? Why no mention of brand of bottle & nipple? Most kids will not just take any bottle.

All of that stuff wasn't mentioned, so why would she mention that Lisa had an ear infection, she's probably prone to them due to her parents smoking and it should have been mentioned even if she was almost over it, b/c she's probably likely to have more.

It's these small things that were left out that make me question the parents innocence.

 

[jjenny]

On the tags that my dogs wear, along with all the information, I always add, needs medication daily. Please return, REWARD. My dogs have never needed meds daily, but this is a precaution.

That being said, the first thing I would say to the media is, my daughter is a very sick little girl and she needs her medication/dr. care. Whatever! DB didn't play her cards right, or maybe she did - depending on the outcome she wanted.

Exactly. If someone finds the dog if it goes missing, a dog that needs meds is less valuable and a person less likely to keep the dog. That goes for other pets as well. If the child had an ear infection why not say the child had an ear infection up until now? What if that infection got worse?

 

[vlpate]

The ear infection was a huge surprise to me, I don't understand why it's just now coming out.

But one thing that bothered me from the beginning is the only thing they ever really said is that they need Lisa b/c she completes the family.

If one of my children went missing, I'd hope beyond all hope that whoever took them wanted a child of their own, and I would give them information to help keep my kids happy. Favorite foods, songs, toys, movies, etc. Lisa was 10 months old, why wasn't the brand of formula she was on ever mentioned, or whether or not she was breastfed? Why no mention of brand of bottle & nipple? Most kids will not just take any bottle.

All of that stuff wasn't mentioned, so why would she mention that Lisa had an ear infection, she's probably prone to them due to her parents smoking and it should have been mentioned even if she was almost over it, b/c she's probably likely to have more.

It's these small things that were left out that make me question the parents innocence.

Exactly - why didn't she mention it? And what about the things that were mentioned in the beginning, that are no longer talked about? What about the stray cat at the foot of the bed that JI had never seen before that night?? Where did it come from? When did she acquire the cat - it had to be between 5:00 that day and when she went to bed. Did SB see it? Either of the SB's? They, as far as I know, haven't mentioned the stray cat. I have thoughts about the cat and how it got in, but that's a different thread....if someone wanted to start one

 

[Meri]

I am pretty sure that DB and JI smoke outside for those that keep mentioning that they smoke around the kids. Of course, I don't know for sure, but there is a video that I remember - I think it was JI's dad said - that they can't even go outside to smoke because of the news reporters.

I also do not get the significance of whether or not the earache/infection was mentioned. The only thing it makes me wonder is if DB was embellishing the symptoms when she was on Dr. Phil, as if she has a hard time not exaggerating when she speaks, or even making things up for a better story. Other than that, I don't see the significance.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Or why she was medicating her....?

I have wondered about this scenario from the very begining. The cough and cold was DB's excuse for possibly medicating Lisa with Benedryl in order to put this baby to bed at 4:30/6:30 pm and expect Lisa to sleep through the night or at least through "Adult Time". Now, all of a sudden, Lisa also has an ear infection. This information omitted at the begining of the case, when information is most important to find a missing child. So why now? Did the little boys mention to LE about DB medicating Lisa and that question was forwarded to DB's attorneys for an explanation and the explanation came via Dr. Phil's show?
I have had 3 children and now have 4 Grandchildren and one of the Grands was diagnosed this morning with an ear infection. She is 15 months old and was prescribed antibiotics. In the 28 years that I have been a Mother never once did I put my sick child to bed at 4:30/6:30pm because they were fussy and expect them to sleep through the night. I held them, loved them, rocked them and walked the floor with them when they were sick, especially with an ear infection. "Adult TIme" would have been the last thing on my mind. JMO.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

To my thinking, the added info about the clearing up of the ear infection is that it elevates the degree of Baby Lisa's discomfort and possible fussiness on the night she disappeared. Many babies have runny noses and what appear to be colds while they are teething. Granted, this is true, it has been expressed that a mere cold shouldn't really warrant any extra concern or vigilance from her mother. But now that her mother has said Baby Lisa was recovering from an ear infection, as well as the cold, and that she was more fussy, would it not follow that Deborah should have checked on her more often?

I certainly may be wrong (as it has been a very long time since my children were babies) but I thought babies had a more difficult time sleeping when they had URis and ear infections. Aren't they harder to get to sleep and even less likely than usual to sleep though the night? Deborah's statement that she put Lisa down earlier than usual and neglected to check on her seems in opposition to my own experiences.

Deborah, by her current timeline, put her sick (not just a runny nosed) baby in her crib at 6:40, was herself still awake (and having her own time) and admits that she never once peeked in to see how her child was faring possibly, possibly until almost four hours later ~ and perhaps not even then! The heightened degree of Baby Lisa's illness also heightens the degree of Deborah's irresponsibility for Lisa's well being.

That's why the added information makes a difference to me.

 

[vlpate]

To my thinking, the added info about the clearing up of the ear infection is that it elevates the degree of Baby Lisa's discomfort and possible fussiness on the night she disappeared. Many babies have runny noses and what appear to be colds while they are teething. Granted, this is true, it has been expressed that a mere cold shouldn't really warrant any extra concern or vigilance from her mother. But now that her mother has said Baby Lisa was recovering from an ear infection, as well as the cold, and that she was more fussy, would it not follow that Deborah should have checked on her more often?

I certainly may be wrong (as it has been a very long time since my children were babies) but I thought babies had a more difficult time sleeping when they had URis and ear infections. Aren't they harder to get to sleep and even less likely than usual to sleep though the night? Deborah's statement that she put Lisa down earlier than usual and neglected to check on her seems in opposition to my own experiences.

Deborah, by her current timeline, put her sick (not just a runny nosed) baby in her crib at 6:40, was herself still awake (and having her own time) and admits that she never once peeked in to see how her child was faring possibly, possibly until almost four hours later ~ and perhaps not even then! The heightened degree of Baby Lisa's illness also heightens the degree of Deborah's irresponsibility for Lisa's well being.

That's why the added information makes a difference to me.

I've looked everywhere for a direct quote, but didn't DB say in the beginning that she not only checked on Lisa at 10:30, but saw her standing up in the crib and gave her a bottle??

 

[vlpate]

I have wondered about this scenario from the very begining. The cough and cold was DB's excuse for possibly medicating Lisa with Benedryl in order to put this baby to bed at 4:30/6:30 pm and expect Lisa to sleep through the night or at least through "Adult Time". Now, all of a sudden, Lisa also has an ear infection. This information omitted at the begining of the case, when information is most important to find a missing child. So why now? Did the little boys mention to LE about DB medicating Lisa and that question was forwarded to DB's attorneys for an explanation and the explanation came via Dr. Phil's show?
I have had 3 children and now have 4 Grandchildren and one of the Grands was diagnosed this morning with an ear infection. She is 15 months old and was prescribed antibiotics. In the 28 years that I have been a Mother never once did I put my sick child to bed at 4:30/6:30pm because they were fussy and expect them to sleep through the night. I held them, loved them, rocked them and walked the floor with them when they were sick, especially with an ear infection. "Adult TIme" would have been the last thing on my mind. JMO.

BEM: I thought this about the bug bite. I'm not allergic to stings, but I've had friends and employees who were, and many took benedryl or used the cream. That's why I too, wonder if she gave her benedryl and is now changing it to an antibiotic and maybe pain meds. It would sound worse to have given her too much benedryl - perhaps she rethought that scenario?

I can't stand it now when my daughter, who is 26, tells me she is sick - I want to be there for her. Of course she can take care of herself now, but again, she's 26. There could be nothing worse, that I can think of, than having your precious baby taken in the middle of the night - except (IMO), having your precious baby taken in the middle of the night sick.

Tacopina goes on about how there were three very credible sightings of a man carrying a baby with only a diaper on (and embellishing the temp.), in the cool night air, yet DB still just talks about wanting whomever has her to take her to a church, hospital, whatever. OMG, what mother - ok, what "good" mother could stand to hear that about her sick baby being carried around SICK in the cold night air NAKED except for a diaper? One would think she'd be begging this person to take care of her, find a way to give her what she needs, even if they have no intention of bringing her back.

That's just me. I didn't check on my daughter every 7 minutes when she was a baby, but I checked on her often when she was sick and "fussy".
.

 

[cityslick]

BEM: I thought this about the bug bite. I'm not allergic to stings, but I've had friends and employees who were, and many took benedryl or used the cream. That's why I too, wonder if she gave her benedryl and is now changing it to an antibiotic and maybe pain meds. It would sound worse to have given her too much benedryl - perhaps she rethought that scenario?

I can't stand it now when my daughter, who is 26, tells me she is sick - I want to be there for her. Of course she can take care of herself now, but again, she's 26. There could be nothing worse, that I can think of, than having your precious baby taken in the middle of the night - except (IMO), having your precious baby taken in the middle of the night sick.

Tacopina goes on about how there were three very credible sightings of a man carrying a baby with only a diaper on (and embellishing the temp.), in the cool night air, yet DB still just talks about wanting whomever has her to take her to a church, hospital, whatever. OMG, what mother - ok, what "good" mother could stand to hear that about her sick baby being carried around SICK in the cold night air NAKED except for a diaper? One would think she'd be begging this person to take care of her, find a way to give her what she needs, even if they have no intention of bringing her back.

That's just me. I didn't check on my daughter every 7 minutes when she was a baby, but I checked on her often when she was sick and "fussy".
.

The problem with changing the medication is if she starts saying BL was on a prescription antibiotic, that stuff can be tracked beyond the bottle sitting on the counter. She's going to be held more accountable to that (by LE) because they can easily find out if she filled a prescription for BL recently.

On your second point about her talking about taking her to a church/hospital, she's talking as of today. Surely you don't believe that BL, if alive, would still have whatever sickness that she had in October? She wants her baby back, she doesn't want the abductor to 'give her what she needs' and 'raise her'. Do you understand how that would even sound and come out if she worded it like that?

 

[redheadedgal]

I've looked everywhere for a direct quote, but didn't DB say in the beginning that she not only checked on Lisa at 10:30, but saw her standing up in the crib and gave her a bottle??

people magazine interview w/ DB (oct 17):

put baby to bed @ 6:40... checked on her soon afterward and found her standing up in the crib

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537543,00.html


hinky meter re: "versions of DB's story":

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/18/lisa-irwin-case-version-4-0-1-a-lawyer-still-no-baby/

 

[matou]

Thanks for the recap about DB seeing Lisa standing in the crib. Did she check her for fever at this time? I'm gonna guess that the answer is no. Fussy baby with an ear infection, cough, cold, not gonna check for a fever, though. JMO

 

[vlpate]

people magazine interview w/ DB (oct 17):

put baby to bed @ 6:40... checked on her soon afterward and found her standing up in the crib

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537543,00.html


hinky meter re: "versions of DB's story":

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/18/lisa-irwin-case-version-4-0-1-a-lawyer-still-no-baby/

Thank you!! I knew I'd seen it or read about it somewhere.

Is this when she found Lisa not breathing? Is then when she told SB she needed to go in and go to sleep?

Or is she just such a huge liar she completely made up that Lisa was standing up and that she gave her a bottle? Dr. Phil should have called her out on so many things. I'm sure LE did.

 

[vlpate]

The problem with changing the medication is if she starts saying BL was on a prescription antibiotic, that stuff can be tracked beyond the bottle sitting on the counter. She's going to be held more accountable to that (by LE) because they can easily find out if she filled a prescription for BL recently.

On your second point about her talking about taking her to a church/hospital, she's talking as of today. Surely you don't believe that BL, if alive, would still have whatever sickness that she had in October? She wants her baby back, she doesn't want the abductor to 'give her what she needs' and 'raise her'. Do you understand how that would even sound and come out if she worded it like that?

It is not necessary that you agree with me - but I do know how I would feel, and I would feel helpless to do anything BUT beg whomever has her to make sure she is checked out. My daughter had pneumonia three times before she was 6 - all three times started out as a cold, so maybe I'm an alarmist due to experience. Still breaks my heart thinking about her hooked up to IV's and having her chest vibrated to get out the mucus. Ugh.

By the way, DB hasn't expressed concern for Lisa's health issues since day one, so it's not about being three months later.

 

[cityslick]

It is not necessary that you agree with me - but I do know how I would feel, and I would feel helpless to do anything BUT beg whomever has her to make sure she is checked out. My daughter had pneumonia three times before she was 6 - all three times started out as a cold, so maybe I'm an alarmist due to experience. Still breaks my heart thinking about her hooked up to IV's and having her chest vibrated to get out the mucus. Ugh.

By the way, DB hasn't expressed concern for Lisa's health issues since day one, so it's not about being three months later.

But you see that is the issue with a lot of this. Folks say what they would say and do and thus judge DB accordingly based on what their own reactions would be. This thing with the ear infection, we don't know anything about that. Who's to say it's not something as simple as BL having an ear infection a week and half before she went missing and that's what she meant when she said 'clearing' an ear infection. I find it extremely hard to believe that if BL was in the middle of an ear infection, on prescription meds and everything, that wasn't communicated to LE by either DB or JI. Even if you go ahead and say DB is trying to cover for something, why wouldn't JI say she had an ear infection to LE? How about SB? or PN? None of these people knew that BL had an ear infection?

 

[vlpate]

But you see that is the issue with a lot of this. Folks say what they would say and do and thus judge DB accordingly based on what their own reactions would be. This thing with the ear infection, we don't know anything about that. Who's to say it's not something as simple as BL having an ear infection a week and half before she went missing and that's what she meant when she said 'clearing' an ear infection. I find it extremely hard to believe that if BL was in the middle of an ear infection, on prescription meds and everything, that wasn't communicated to LE by either DB or JI. Even if you go ahead and say DB is trying to cover for something, why wouldn't JI say she had an ear infection to LE? How about SB? or PN? None of these people knew that BL had an ear infection?

BEM: Then LE should have mentioned it. If someone did/does have her they may find a way to get her medical attention, without being caught.

Making an observation and judging are two different things. Judging would be me saying she is a horrible mother and I am a great mother because I do things the right way. That's not what I said. Deborah has proven herself to be a liar by omission. She tells the truth when she's caught. There may be nothing at all to the ear infection, but I choose to look at the omission as a clue until I'm convinced it just slipped her mind initially.

Then again, as you state, wouldn't someone besides DB know Lisa had an ear infection? They wouldn't if she were lying....and what would we make of that?

 

[Whisperer]

I've looked everywhere for a direct quote, but didn't DB say in the beginning that she not only checked on Lisa at 10:30, but saw her standing up in the crib and gave her a bottle??

I don't know the time but DB says, "She was standing up in her crib, I gave her a bottle and put her down."

...darn, that is strange terminology.

I pictured her picking her, throwing her down on her back and sticking a bottle her mouth.