Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16

[LoriMcA]

Jumping off deugirtni's post in the previous thread about DG sentencing wrt trafficking and him having told the judge that he made his own meth because he had ADD ... the article says:

from:
http://injusticebusters.org/index.htm/newstories3.htm



:waitasec: I wonder how he explained away the LSD

I certainly don't question that he was sentenced to 39 months ... but even with 1/3 knocked off his sentence (statutory release), I sure can't figure out how he managed to serve only 6 months

ETA: I wonder if the 6 months was in error and should have read 26 months (39 months less 1/3 = 26 months)

I googled and found the parole board...and WOW...is all I have to say....

http://www.pbc-clcc.gc.ca/infocntr/parolec/2011-08-02/intro-eng.shtml

UTA= Unescorted Temporary Absence - Types of Conditional Release

"UTA – For sentences of 3 years or more, offenders are eligible for UTAs after serving 1/6 of their sentence. For sentences of 2-3 years, UTA eligibility is at 6 months into the sentence. Offenders serving life sentences are eligible for UTAs 3 years before their full parole eligibility date. Offenders classified as maximum security are not eligible for UTAs."

I wonder if they take into account time spent in custody...and deduct that from time remaining? Maybe he'd been held for a long period and they took that into account? I was just shocked that someone with a 3 year sentence only has to serve 1/6 or 6 months! & they can go out unescorted.....that was my 'wow'.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Do you think the knowledge/reputation he has attained in the drug industry is going to extend to murder? I don't know about that, I hope so...he should be safe in prison for heaven sake. JMO

I'm not really sure, just throwing it out there. I'm sure those guys use each other and trade, barter. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, etc.

Hypothetically, I read somewhere DG can disarm alarms, that might do someone in there some good although doubtful, unless they pass the info onto some bigwigs on the outside, tradesies right? Who knows what criminal skills DG might hold if any?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I'm on the same lines of thinking Tinker, it's bad, but I'm suspicious he showed up in person! Probably part of strategy. Or maybe he just wanted to breath some fresh air and go for a car ride (I'm being serious, maybe he just wanted out of his cage).

I know you're being serious...I thought that as well...I sure would want to go out! No doubt about it.

 

[LoisLane]

Oooooh, you think they'll overlook the murder of an innocent child....they REALLY don't like that in there. I was reading up on murders in prison a few weeks back and those guys are nasty....I don't know...if I were DG, I wouldn't count on it. JMO

I was listening to an interview on CBC this am about a prison guard who was harassed by an inmate who was in jail for brutally beating and raping the prison guards sister. His sister committed suicide shortly after. The story was about the mistreatment and a pending court battle over the guards rights and the PTSD he endured from having to deal with this inmate after repeated attempts to be transferred. Long-story-short the inmate made this guards life hell and enlisted many other inmates to assist (This included a letter sent describing the attack). The convict is now serving time in a federal institution for a murder he committed (after his release for the assault) Also this criminal is a gang member and had the support of his fellow gang members who were also serving time.

Why did this guy get away with beating and sexually assaulting a woman and had his fellow gangers help him interrogate the victim's brother? Why didn't his fellow roommates beat him up for hurting a woman? I guess it is because the guards are an enemy. Anyway, I think the right group of people and the right circumstances will either aid DG or they will make his life miserable. Time will tell.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I'm not really sure, just throwing it out there. I'm sure those guys use each other and trade, barter. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, etc.

Hypothetically, I read somewhere DG can disarm alarms, that might do someone in there some good although doubtful, unless they pass the info onto some bigwigs on the outside, tradesies right? Who knows what criminal skills DG might hold if any?

You know, he's a farm boy. So was my dad...he could figure anything out and rig anything to work for what he needed. DG may have a few criminal skills, although I don't think he's a big time player, there would be more people in the remand that probably have better criminal skills. DG has a lot of life experience and a lot of years on the farm...those boys are smart because they have to be to get stuff to work around the farm. I think he's got a mind full of tricks that "if it works with an animal, it'll work with a human" sort of thing, I don't know.
Jut a thought

 

[LoriMcA]

It would be interesting to know how he would be viewed. I hear what you're saying….If he was someone important he would be respected.

Buuut, I'm also wondering that now since he is charged with killing an innocent child AND let's say Cherchri is right and chemicals were used - these two things might make him very unpopular as he might've crossed a 'prison ethic' line... Wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer unpopular in prison? I think inmates found him *too* sick and twisted, not to mention he was just plain weird, a loner with not good social skills (at least that's what I know about him, correct me if I'm wrong anyone!)

I should would like to be a fly on the wall in maximum security if DG ever goes there!

ETA - I'm lumping DG together with Jeffrey Dahmer, as I personally feel using chemicals to rid of a human is just as sick as cannibalism, I wonder if hardened criminals feel the same? JMO.

Very unpopular.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/u...-killer-is-bludgeoned-to-death-in-prison.html

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ohhh! Jeffrely Dahmer ate his...he had a lot of time to think about it while he was chewing...I think that makes him sicker and infinitely more disturbed. JMO
DG could've just put them in the barrel and walked away for a few days. Both terrible outcomes, but I think cannibalism is still worse.

:gasp: oh my….chewing…oh geez, can't think about it…never thought of that before Tinker ewwwww.

Yes so sick…..to treat a human in that way is almost as gross as it gets, you still have to go back and rid of the aftermath, one being a child, that's pretty darn sick too if you ask me. Right up there with Pickton and Dahmer - same level of subhuman IMO.

I'm praying this didn't happen (no offense Cherchri and other's theory), I just really hope chemicals weren't involved as I'd have a hard time knowing this happened to anyone

 

[Cherchri]

Do you think that DG showing up in person in court today has anything to do with their strategy? I'm wondering if KR suggested that he 'present' himself to show attendees that he is a person and not just someone on a screen?

Oh, I know a lightening bolt is probably gonna come down and hit me, but I was happy to hear that the judge was such a personable man and was respectful to everyone including DG. That's the way it should be...guess that's why he's a judge.

I also thought his appearance was a strategic move. The stir was incredible. We went from one sheriff to 3 and then I just knew! Then clink clink and voila. Those leg manacle things are awful. Makes the blood run cold. Appearing in person definitely has a marked impact on the gallery. The case before was a young man who has been in the prison system since 1996. He violated his parole having been out for just a few months. His pregnant wife and little girl were sitting behind me for hours. He left home at 4:30 am on his bicycle to get milk for the little girl who was sick and had no lamp on the bike. Was stopped by police and a) was in violation of his curfew b) didn't have his papers on him - a condition of his parole. Being there in person and blowing a kiss to his little girl had a huge impact on me. And clearly the judge. Prosecution were calling for 90 days and the judge gave him 2 weeks saying there was no sign of him committing crime, evidence that he had been working daily and trying to get his life on track. A bit of a lecture about a breach being a breach but in the nicest possible way. A delightful man doing what he is paid to do with integrity.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I was listening to an interview on CBC this am about a prison guard who was harassed by an inmate who was in jail for brutally beating and raping the prison guards sister. His sister committed suicide shortly after. The story was about the mistreatment and a pending court battle over the guards rights and the PTSD he endured from having to deal with this inmate after repeated attempts to be transferred. Long-story-short the inmate made this guards life hell and enlisted many other inmates to assist (This included a letter sent describing the attack). The convict is now serving time in a federal institution for a murder he committed (after his release for the assault) Also this criminal is a gang member and had the support of his fellow gang members who were also serving time.

Why did this guy get away with beating and sexually assaulting a woman and had his fellow gangers help him interrogate the victim's brother? Why didn't his fellow roommates beat him up for hurting a woman? I guess it is because the guards are an enemy. Anyway, I think the right group of people and the right circumstances will either aid DG or they will make his life miserable. Time will tell.

This sounds terrible! And, the fault of our own justice system...that guard should have immediately been removed from that inmate. Immediately! What the heck broke down there that such a thing was allowed to happen...talk about "conflict of interest".

And there's another poor guy. Why are there so many terrible people out there? Life isn't that hard in Canada, we don't have to hunt for our food, or fight for housing, etc...we're very civilized, etc. There shouldn't be this nastiness out there (I'm sorry, I have no link and I'm too tired to look for one right now). I thank God I never had children...but I worry about my nieces and nephews and wonder what's going to become of them raising their families? Tough stuff, for sure.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

it was a joke post in play with things not valid unless a link can be provided.

I Link Therefore I Am!

There's always been the mystery of the "missing link"...lol...guess it ain't here either.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I googled and found the parole board...and WOW...is all I have to say....

http://www.pbc-clcc.gc.ca/infocntr/parolec/2011-08-02/intro-eng.shtml

UTA= Unescorted Temporary Absence - Types of Conditional Release

"UTA – For sentences of 3 years or more, offenders are eligible for UTAs after serving 1/6 of their sentence. For sentences of 2-3 years, UTA eligibility is at 6 months into the sentence. Offenders serving life sentences are eligible for UTAs 3 years before their full parole eligibility date. Offenders classified as maximum security are not eligible for UTAs."

I wonder if they take into account time spent in custody...and deduct that from time remaining? Maybe he'd been held for a long period and they took that into account? I was just shocked that someone with a 3 year sentence only has to serve 1/6 or 6 months! & they can go out unescorted.....that was my 'wow'.

Dare I say - welcome to Canada. Okay, that was a bad thing to say. We live in one of the most beautiful places in the world, we don't suffer as other countries do. But man, our laws need changing.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I know you're being serious...I thought that as well...I sure would want to go out! No doubt about it.

Lol! I had to put a 'I'm being serious' disclaimer in my post since we've all been cracking so many jokes these days! And my comment kind of sounded a little sarcastic.

 

[LoisLane]

This sounds terrible! And, the fault of our own justice system...that guard should have immediately been removed from that inmate. Immediately! What the heck broke down there that such a thing was allowed to happen...talk about "conflict of interest".

And there's another poor guy. Why are there so many terrible people out there? Life isn't that hard in Canada, we don't have to hunt for our food, or fight for housing, etc...we're very civilized, etc. There shouldn't be this nastiness out there (I'm sorry, I have no link and I'm too tired to look for one right now). I thank God I never had children...but I worry about my nieces and nephews and wonder what's going to become of them raising their families? Tough stuff, for sure.

It was shocking to hear. It was on Daybreak I believe, you can download it if you are interested in the full interview.

 

[LoriMcA]

I was listening to an interview on CBC this am about a prison guard who was harassed by an inmate who was in jail for brutally beating and raping the prison guards sister. His sister committed suicide shortly after. The story was about the mistreatment and a pending court battle over the guards rights and the PTSD he endured from having to deal with this inmate after repeated attempts to be transferred. Long-story-short the inmate made this guards life hell and enlisted many other inmates to assist (This included a letter sent describing the attack). The convict is now serving time in a federal institution for a murder he committed (after his release for the assault) Also this criminal is a gang member and had the support of his fellow gang members who were also serving time.

Why did this guy get away with beating and sexually assaulting a woman and had his fellow gangers help him interrogate the victim's brother? Why didn't his fellow roommates beat him up for hurting a woman? I guess it is because the guards are an enemy. Anyway, I think the right group of people and the right circumstances will either aid DG or they will make his life miserable. Time will tell.

I saw that this morning as well.....heartbreaking....that's all I can say....the poor guy....his poor sister!

 

[deugirtni]

I don't know.. I think getting rid of the body is probably a way more troublesome detail than doing the murder itself. to find someone who knows how to 'dissolve a human', I would think would be a bonus that any murderer might like to gain more info about. The body seems to tell so much, and it most times seems to be found, even when murderers have gone to lengths to hide it.
Personally I can't see it. And I feel it is unfair to hold someone in the same disdain as the deranged Dahmer fellow if the someone hasn't been convicted yet, and we don't even have a smoking gun for evidence. It seems to me that sometimes bodies take awhile to appear or be found, and so let's give it some more time. Perhaps someone will stumble upon something over the winter months.

It would be interesting to know how he would be viewed. I hear what you're saying….If he was someone important he would be respected.

Buuut, I'm also wondering that now since he is charged with killing an innocent child AND let's say Cherchri is right and chemicals were used - these two things might make him very unpopular as he might've crossed a 'prison ethic' line... Wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer unpopular in prison? I think inmates found him *too* sick and twisted, not to mention he was just plain weird, a loner with not good social skills (at least that's what I know about him, correct me if I'm wrong anyone!)

I should would like to be a fly on the wall in maximum security if DG ever goes there!

ETA - I'm lumping DG together with Jeffrey Dahmer, as I personally feel using chemicals to rid of a human is just as sick as cannibalism, I wonder if hardened criminals feel the same? JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Very unpopular.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/u...-killer-is-bludgeoned-to-death-in-prison.html

Prison justice in their eyes, pretty brutal stuff. And the cycle continues...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don't know.. I think getting rid of the body is probably a way more troublesome detail than doing the murder itself. to find someone who knows how to 'dissolve a human', I would think would be a bonus that any murderer might like to gain more info about. The body seems to tell so much, and it most times seems to be found, even when murderers have gone to lengths to hide it.
Personally I can't see it. And I feel it is unfair to hold someone in the same disdain as the deranged Dahmer fellow if the someone hasn't been convicted yet, and we don't even have a smoking gun for evidence. It seems to me that sometimes bodies take awhile to appear or be found, and so let's give it some more time. Perhaps someone will stumble upon something over the winter months.

I guess I see them all as the same - people with no conscience. I mentioned in my earlier post Dahmer, Pickton and possibly Garland to me are subhuman.

It's one thing to take someone's life (especially when they fight hard for it with every last breath) it's another to go to the beyond to hide it. I think this takes a particular type of killer, the sickest kind.

And you're right, the body is telling so this could be forging new types of killers that are now going to the beyond. Scary thought isn't it!

 

[deugirtni]

I don't know if my *theory* carres any weight, but it seems to me that while an accused spends his years in jail before his trial, before he is convicted, the government has discretion on where to place them, and to me it seems that the 'harder' types do their waiting in heavier-duty institutions, while the seemingly less tough ones spend their time waiting at lighter duty facilities. I noticed that in the Millard/Smich case, Smich is not segregated and waits in a tougher place, while Millard spends his 24.5 hours per day locked in solitude in the Hamilton, less tough, institution.. It may be just a sense that I get/have, and could be completely wrong. MOO. If I am correct, and an accused spends years waiting in a light-duty place, and then gets convicted, and shipped off to a place where the hardened criminals spend their life, I imagine it would be quite a shell shock!

Elissa was saying she knew DG was no longer under suicide watch and wondered if he was in general population. We agreed not likely because child killers don't survive long in general population. She said even the most hardened criminals who have committed terrible crimes, have it in for child killers. I don't know how things are at the remand centre for awaiting trial prisoners. I mean if they have yet to be proven guilty of a crime but are alleged to have killed a child.... Then what?

 

[LoisLane]

I have attended some pretty swanky parties in the EPCM O&G world alongside the classy executives and I will tell you the white stuff is abundant with some.

Now that I think of it when I worked in a prestigious securities firm the stockbrokers were even worse and the clientelle were off the charts, a few clients were very wealthy, with legitimate business fronts, but they were just fronts. It was actually the scariest place I ever worked! CIRCA 2000

 

[deugirtni]

Excellent post! And may I add to that, also 'no plea'. And also, along with having elderly parents int he last years of their lives, I am convinced that DG was performing all kinds of labour for them, perhaps in return for his 'keep' on that property, and how will they manage, and how much will it cost them now, without him. And yes, that must be killer for the victims' families to be met with tight lips from LE, and just as difficult for LE to keep those lips tight when the family could potentially benefit from some knowledge. Horrible case all around.

Now that I have some free time to write, can I just say how underwhelming today was...

What, if anything, does it say about the evidence? No application for bail, no psych assessment, just set a date and go.

Perhaps it's weak and they know they'll have to just go through the process. Perhaps it's damning, and it's a negotiation strategy. Perhaps lawyer and client haven't agreed on a strategy yet. Even if there was nothing to it, would they have bothered asking for bail?

Perhaps they just don't have enough of it yet, and simply can't do anything.

I can't imagine how disappointed and frustrated the family must feel. Regardless of the guilt or innocence, just not knowing what happened, and knowing that LE has so much more info they could be sharing.

I can't imagine being the LE contact person with the family, knowing you can't provide them any relief even though you know you possibly could.

... and DG. Guilty and trying to get off with as little as possible, or innocent and forced to spend at least a year of his life in jail to prove it... with elderly parents in the last years of their lives.

What a mess.