Thanks stan laurel! I was wondering the other day when someone mentioned 'CL', that there is an older CL and a younger CL, and I wondered whose son the younger CL is? Is the younger CL the son of the older CL? And now we have 3 CLs?? Hard to keep up in this family!
Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16
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I surmise that while the length of time awaiting a trial seems long, hopefully it is balanced out by a better chance at justice come trial. IMO, our system may move slower than our American counterpart, but the accused is better represented by a more prepared defence and the prosecution has had more time to ensure all avenues of evidence have been explored. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part, the system does its best to be fair and just. If it was my family member on trial, I would hope for a diligent system not just a quick resolve.
As for bail - In many cases, our court system seems almost TOO lenient, affording bail and more than one mental fitness assessment for examples. One must be charged with a seriously heinous crime or have a hefty rap sheet to be denied bail in our country. In fact, bail and NCR defences are highly criticized in our judicial system, IMO.
In this case, I was and I wasn't surprised that bail has not been addressed. One one hand, it is such a routine request, that I query why KR didn't submit one after now having received a good portion of the discovery. One the other hand, perhaps he feels it is futile, as this is a very high profile case with significant emotional replications. The chance a judge would grant bail on a triple murder to a suspect who has already skipped on bail is not just slim, but IMO, darn near impossible. Better for him to work on his case and not inflame potential jury members in the process by suggesting to put an accused child killer on the street. Personally, I think it is smart that KR has not tried to fight the bail battle and not set off more anger in the community, potentially damaging his clients chance at an impartial jury.
All MOO, JMO and all that stuff...
Lalalacasbah
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A much more detailed article about today from surprisingly, the Huffington Post via Bill Graveland (National Correspondent for The Canadian Press in Calgary) (BBM):
Crown prosecutor Shane Parker had the option of going directly to trial but said this will give him a chance for a test run of the evidence.
"I like the idea of a preliminary inquiry," Parker said outside court. "It gives us more time to make sure we're ready once the jury trial is slated to go."
Kim Ross, Garland's lawyer, said a preliminary hearing makes sense considering the vast amount of evidence.
"I think something of this complexity and nature requires a preliminary inquiry," he said.
Ross said he hasn't decided on whether to seek bail for his client.
He declined to respond to questions about why he has not requested a psychiatric assessment for Garland.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/0...rland_n_5837984.html?utm_hp_ref=alberta-crime
Crown prosecutor Shane Parker had the option of going directly to trial but said this will give him a chance for a test run of the evidence.
"I like the idea of a preliminary inquiry," Parker said outside court. "It gives us more time to make sure we're ready once the jury trial is slated to go."
Kim Ross, Garland's lawyer, said a preliminary hearing makes sense considering the vast amount of evidence.
"I think something of this complexity and nature requires a preliminary inquiry," he said.
Ross said he hasn't decided on whether to seek bail for his client.
He declined to respond to questions about why he has not requested a psychiatric assessment for Garland.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/0...rland_n_5837984.html?utm_hp_ref=alberta-crime
Yes, I picked that up too sillybilly, and to tell you the truth, I had to wonder if the newspaper which published that report, hadn't made an error.. because of course, you can't explain away making LSD, can you? Jeez. But it seems to me that the mention of LSD appears only rarely, in fact, perhaps only in one publication, not sure, will have to check on that.
Also, I believe I read that he actually got 40 months.. 39 months for .. whatever.. and one month for something else, but I can't remember if that extra month was to be served concurrently or consecutively? And.. apparently there was some kind of 'special program' (early release program?) in existence at the time, and I think therefore, that it wasn't the usual way the 'time' played out, and that is why it only turned into 6 months. I believe you are correct in saying it wasn't actually 6 months, because we have to assume that when he was first arrested (a news article written May 31, 1999 said he had been taken into custody the week prior), and it was June 2000 when he got 'day parole', and October 2000 when he got 'full parole' (at least that is as far as I can understand what I read on the parole documents. So if we consider 'day parole' to be a release, that would still be one year, actually 13 months, and if we consider instead that 'release' would mean 'full parole', then it was actually 17 months. ?? ?? ?? Perhaps you can figure it out fore sure sillybilly?
The parole document is picture here on this link, further down the page:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1439359/parole-documents-cite-concerns-about-person-of-interest-in-missing-family-case/
Also, I believe I read that he actually got 40 months.. 39 months for .. whatever.. and one month for something else, but I can't remember if that extra month was to be served concurrently or consecutively? And.. apparently there was some kind of 'special program' (early release program?) in existence at the time, and I think therefore, that it wasn't the usual way the 'time' played out, and that is why it only turned into 6 months. I believe you are correct in saying it wasn't actually 6 months, because we have to assume that when he was first arrested (a news article written May 31, 1999 said he had been taken into custody the week prior), and it was June 2000 when he got 'day parole', and October 2000 when he got 'full parole' (at least that is as far as I can understand what I read on the parole documents. So if we consider 'day parole' to be a release, that would still be one year, actually 13 months, and if we consider instead that 'release' would mean 'full parole', then it was actually 17 months. ?? ?? ?? Perhaps you can figure it out fore sure sillybilly?
The parole document is picture here on this link, further down the page:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1439359/parole-documents-cite-concerns-about-person-of-interest-in-missing-family-case/
Lalalacasbah
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Okay one more (BBM):
The evidence against Garland will include statements from civilians and police officers, and the forensic evidence that led to the charges.
"I like the idea of a preliminary inquiry, it gives us a chance to test drive some of the evidence — make sure where we're at in terms of some of the behind-the-scenes work," said Crown prosecutor Shane Parker.
Calgary police aren't commenting on the investigation or efforts to locate the victims' bodies because, they say, the matter is before the courts. But Parker said the search should still be on.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...appearance-draws-gasps-in-courtroom-1.2768976
The evidence against Garland will include statements from civilians and police officers, and the forensic evidence that led to the charges.
"I like the idea of a preliminary inquiry, it gives us a chance to test drive some of the evidence — make sure where we're at in terms of some of the behind-the-scenes work," said Crown prosecutor Shane Parker.
Calgary police aren't commenting on the investigation or efforts to locate the victims' bodies because, they say, the matter is before the courts. But Parker said the search should still be on.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...appearance-draws-gasps-in-courtroom-1.2768976
Lalalacasbah
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Questioning my own post!
- Curious what type of civilian statements would be considered evidence?
- 'test drive' some of the evidence? That's an interesting choice of words
- So about locating the victims is curious also
Lalalacasbah
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Sometimes it seems the more money people have, the stranger and weirder they get!
I wonder if the appearances of the defendents are based on logistics, rather than anything more complicated? I'm not sure how it all works, I'm not sure if the 'remand centre' is attached to the courthouse somehow(???), or how the prisoners travel to whichever courthouses they are appearing at??? But.. perhaps it is based solely on scheduling.. the transportation vs the particular courthouse vs how many are going that day, etc.. ?? I know that originally, MSM was expecting DG to show up via video link.. and that it was a last minute surprise when he was there in person.. so could it have been something as simple as... since the time *his* court date was set, they received a bunch more court dates for other inmates of the remand centre, and so they were all bussed in as a group?
PS.. personal experience here.. no links.. haha.. one time.. I visited Nassau.. and.. I saw the screaming bus carrying all of the criminals from the jail to the courthouse to attend their court hearings.. the speed!!! It was WILD!! We are so much more civilized here.. (or are we??)
PS.. personal experience here.. no links.. haha.. one time.. I visited Nassau.. and.. I saw the screaming bus carrying all of the criminals from the jail to the courthouse to attend their court hearings.. the speed!!! It was WILD!! We are so much more civilized here.. (or are we??)
Do you think that DG showing up in person in court today has anything to do with their strategy? I'm wondering if KR suggested that he 'present' himself to show attendees that he is a person and not just someone on a screen?
Oh, I know a lightening bolt is probably gonna come down and hit me, but I was happy to hear that the judge was such a personable man and was respectful to everyone including DG. That's the way it should be...guess that's why he's a judge.
Lalalacasbah
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I'm wondering if bail wasn't requested because of request of the client? Maybe DG has nowhere to go?
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I can speak to a few of your queries...
The remand is not attached but it is a mere 10 minute drive time with traffic. They are both in the core. It is all handled through Alberta Court Services, run out of the CPS Processing Unit.
Unless things have changed, suspects are expected to appear in person for court dates unless there are issues such as Suicide Watch or security concerns precluding them from appearing.
ETA: While logistics may be a slim factor, they have not been an issue to a large degree here.
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- Civillian statements could be the person who owned the CCTV camera, the Airdrie neighbour, the hotel staff where he stayed after the first arrest, the neighbour whose back porch he was arrested on, others we have not heard of.
- 'Test drive' was not a direct quote, it was the reporters interpretation.
ETA: I am reading this from the HP article, your BBM from CBC is different... Hmmm!
- I really hope they can locate the victims... Oh, that one gets me!
Lalalacasbah
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Good point deugirtni, could be about logistics and budgets for court appearances. Good question…. lol I tend to think we're more civilized, but sometimes I wonder too!
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Anything is possible. Your theory definitely holds merit. I would imagine that plays a role in granting bail.
Lalalacasbah
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Makes sense about civilian statements for sure, thanks! I thought there was a witness or something.
I saw 'test drive' used in one article and 'test run' in the second article, still weird wording when referring to evidence if you ask me….
And yeah, still a weird response regarding the victims, I can't tell if they're saying that because it's 'sensitive' material, or what!
Lalalacasbah
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Lalalacasbah
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I know, the articles are different, two different articles presenting the same round about info with different wording. Still some new wording and info that I was excited about.
I also thought strange when referencing 'test drive/test run' some of the evidence and more 'behind the scenes' things, what is he referring to? Techy things? Behind the scenes? And when I hear of test run/test drive I think of an action with something physical (weapon maybe? or computers?)
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Excellent! Great info to know
Things have changed. The majority are now via CCTV and the courts are able to move through the process at a much faster rate. I sat through 9 cases today and missed a couple when I took comfort breaks. Only DG and 1 other appeared in person. It runs like a well oiled machine. A sausage machine.
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He was. The pair we saw on the perp walk. Quite trendy glasses.
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